www.tombraiderforums.com

Go Back   www.tombraiderforums.com > Tomb Raider Modding > Tomb Raider Level Editor

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 26-09-18, 22:35   #31
TombRaiderTim
Archaeologist
 
TombRaiderTim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,563
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Dwight View Post
Wow... been out for over a year, and... this is it?
Didn't think it was that hard.
I decided to watch the walkthrough instead after giving the game itself a go but I have to be honest to give a good opinion so I want to say that the game itself is near enough impossible to progress without getting agitated due to there not being any clear hints or tutorials on where to proceed or what things are used for certain parts of the game itself. It may have potential if these kinds of things are included into it but the fact you have to explore massive open areas which could take up to an hour before you come across anything is quite annoying, especially when you have no indication of what the item is used for or where you are supposed to use it so i'm sorry I am sounding quite harsh but its difficult to play when you have crazy quality sound effects going on at once though it may not seem hard to you as you built the game and know where to go yourself but you really need to give clues and directions to players who want to try out your game as I tried to play it but was full on stuck during the first and second level and gave up due to the reasons I stated.

I think some people may agree although everyone has their own opinion but it would attract more attention if it was a little more polished, not to mention try getting it uploaded to trle.net as its a more common place for levels to be shown to other people.
__________________
"You really are a woman after my own heart."

Last edited by TombRaiderTim; 26-09-18 at 22:49.
TombRaiderTim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-09-18, 01:52   #32
New Dwight
Archaeologist
 
New Dwight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,919
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by TombRaiderTim View Post
I decided to watch the walkthrough instead after giving the game itself a go but I have to be honest to give a good opinion so I want to say that the game itself is near enough impossible to progress without getting agitated due to there not being any clear hints or tutorials on where to proceed or what things are used for certain parts of the game itself. It may have potential if these kinds of things are included into it but the fact you have to explore massive open areas which could take up to an hour before you come across anything is quite annoying, especially when you have no indication of what the item is used for or where you are supposed to use it so i'm sorry I am sounding quite harsh but its difficult to play when you have crazy quality sound effects going on at once though it may not seem hard to you as you built the game and know where to go yourself but you really need to give clues and directions to players who want to try out your game as I tried to play it but was full on stuck during the first and second level and gave up due to the reasons I stated.

I think some people may agree although everyone has their own opinion but it would attract more attention if it was a little more polished, not to mention try getting it uploaded to trle.net as its a more common place for levels to be shown to other people.
I know it's like that. Replaying the game after these years, I seen that immediately in areas like the manor, Cargo Crypt and so on. Thing is, the game was originally "Arch Raider" which actually had clear, concise hints and a more linear path to follow based on the character's given hints (and stronger use of survival instincts) but for some reason I have yet to comprehend completely why I changed the character. IIRC, it was to have a more relatable character to my main game, which in result left The Mist: Resurrection scarce and scattered and I removed most of the dialogue voices and hints. At that point I didn't care and released it as is. Missed a couple game breaking bugs like, the infamous glass-window-pistols in the manor, the key in the gate in the Cistern Waterway (where going in there without the key meant you'd be locked away forever), and many more. Aside those gameplay affects (I should've kept it as Arch Raider, I wanted to release, but I had already removed all the sources except for the meta2tr objects, so that's not possible).
The environments are what mostly jarred me while replaying the game. Some levels were good, but a lot of them had so much more potential had I spent more time on them and touched it up with meta2tr as I initially planned. Levels like the third level (the Cargo Crypt) was short, and was going to be longer, but I lacked the motivation to ever make it that way.

Some environments though had really good sounds this time around. (The Desert Westersand, Sochen Cave Palace and Cistern Waterway are my favorite. Desert Westersand was my favorite in terms of environmental sounds to be honest, the level was actually a retextured Sacred Lake level.

(Times from the video included "00:00") My personal favorites where:

The Prologue (Ruins of Mountain Makalu) - The environment turned out nice, but the story behind it was invisible to the player as it was built when the game was still Arch Raider, and without that, the level had no context and was just a map worth exploring. All in all, not very interesting, hence why I didn't bother playing it in the video.

The Manor (Outside levels) - room for improvement within the interior.

Sochen Cave Palace (Some objects still lacked proper lighting) 16:08 - Room for improvement in a overall scene. (Wanted it to be more linear to ffxii's Sochen Cave Palace but not entirely).

Cistern Waterway 41:16 - Map was designed well, the scene with the Cleaner robot was done well, but lighting could've used some work based on the concept setting of the scene (old, dingy). The three cages' blocking the sequence switches collision needed to be fixed, or one large cage blocking the switches should've been made instead.

Desert Palace 1:01:16 - Map, in for improvements, as some rooms' lighting where too dark compared to the target map I had in mind - from FF9. Better texture use to fit Desert Palace FF9. I could do with the references from extracted battle maps of FF9, using those textures and the ones I used ~similar to the recent Lindblum/Hideout render.

Raithwall's Tomb 1:17:20 - (The actual map portion near the end of the level) the beginning is a edited Tutorial level map with some extra rooms).
The actual map of the level was absolutely ginormous - similar to the size in FFXII, but still lacked correct lightning and object placement I had in mind.

The Lost Island 1:44:25 - Map is small and for areas like the ocean, has room for improvement. (Currently I did not know how make a proper ocean in the room editor, so the character could swim to the end of the map still).

Esto Gaza 1:45:00 - Really one of my ultimate favorite levels, as it's the one I spent the most time on, but still never touched it up with meta2tr. I remember working with Titak on this level with color ambiences and tone to fit the Cold/Snowy environment. Using various subtle colors.

Mount Gulug 1:54:02 - A good try aiming for the volcanic type scenery, but compared to FF9 (as my main goal for the level) it sees for more improvement. Mount Gulug in FF9, the environment is less of lava fields across the scene and more of an old abandoned dig site nearly (hence the Bishop in Esto Gaza mentions the "Moles" used to live there. e.g. - 'Une- the Mole' etc.). The term "Mount" - 'referencing, 'mountain~volcanic' due to the foundation built on/around a volcano. In FF9, you never see any Lava.

Ipsen's Castle 2:01:53 - The outside scene is okay but needed improvements undoubtedly. Beyond the magic objects, in the front, the player can reach the end of the map, and there's no 'real' way of accessing the interior of the castle as it should be. The interior, is better, has a believable ambience and lighting, but some of the geometry mainly doesn't match with the intended result I was aiming for. In FF9, the interior, and lighting is a bit (a bit) brighter than what I had, the texture usage being the main issue, and the geometry, shows the map at an upright angle and an upside down angle - hence the effect of Ipsen's Castle being reversed, aka "Ipsen's Curse".

The Manor - Under Siege 2:27:00 - Apart from the original manor level where the main interior was widely empty and huge (due to the storyline - manor resident had just moved in and not finished unpacking - I don't believe that, tbh). The Under Siege part of the manor brought a destroyed/wrecked look to the environment caused by Eidolon Atomos (as it once did to Lindblum), but still needed improvements as with the already huge empty areas, there weren't much debris to show off in all the wreckage as intended.

The Alchemilla Tower 2:32:52 - Another one of my favorites, the initial concept of this area was a gigantic tower built on the clouds above, similar to the concept of Bhujerba from ffxii, but in more dark tone. Problem with this is, the tower itself shows no signs of clouds beneath it, but rather in front and at the top. The Tower itself was designed to my target, but certainly could be increased and improved in UE4.

Island, Mahikea 4:12:41 - (Last level seen in the above video https://youtu.be/aPzIMP7LsBU?t=4h12m41s) My feelings with this level are mixed because:
A. The level turned out too short.
B. This level was supposed to be ported from what I had in UE4 on my main game.
It turned out short because I wasn't looking to redesign the whole map in trle and couldn't find a way to achieve that similar quality in trle anyway.
The area with the Iifa Tree (another disappointment - hence why I stopped the video here) looked nice, but could be improved - immensely.

The levels I didn't fancy:

The Manor (Interior) - The huge emptiness and repetitive textures I lazily used was an eye sore while replaying.

The Cargo Crypt 8:05 - Level was extremely small, and nearly bland from the lack of connection to the story.

The Ogir Yensa Sandsea 12:00 - While building the level I initially planned for this to be adjacent to the Sandsea in FFXII, and initially be split into two, but didn't turn out that way as I didn't bother to try tot he fullest.

Desert Westersand 31:47 - Level was nothing but a retextured Scared Lake from TR4, what more could I say.

The Feywood 1:39:11 - Level turned out a disteraster while I replayed it. While my main goal was deliver a similar feeling to the Feywood in FFXII, it just didn't turn out that way, stemming from the lack of patience and precision from myself alone, and was left the way it was, which is a disappoint as it had potential, I just refused to find it.
There also a extremely complicated scales puzzles that I did anew using the Scales object. The way to solve it was to listen to the audio that played of various 'ticks' heard and matched the number of chops to be placed in each. Thankfully, the version downloadable has been patched with the easier, original scales puzzle.

The Lunar Surface 2:17:07 - The purpose of this outer space level was explained in an removed cutscene before the level. The outfit was suited for this level, was only there when the game was Arch Raider, and was removed as well as the cutscene when it changed, resulting in this level without a real purpose. The design is most disappointing as it's really only a retextured Feywood level, as the same small environment and path takes place. Overall, improvements are shouting from this level, or remove it entirely.

Pandemonium 2:48:48 - This level's design isn't great as it is a retextured Temple of Puna TR3 level, with the exception of the boss fight, which was nicely done given the limits of meta2tr.

Royal Capital Ramseur 3:00:11 - This level was planned to be similarly designed to Rabanastre from ffxii, but as the same reasons as the feywood, it turned out to be the worse it could, a retextured Alexandria TR4.

Ramseur 2/the snow level 3:09:53 - is the meta2tr demo level, I need not say anything else.

Ramseur Lowtown 3:13:00- With the initial plans as Capital Ramsuer, and turned out not, and become a textured Guardian of Semerkhet TR4.

The Feymarch 3:20:48 - Because I failed to use my creativity and remake the feymarch from ff4 as 3D similar to Desert Palace, I instead took the level - Castle of Anxiety by QRS and used it as the Feymarch (permission granted prior to release).

Penelo's last levels:

Fossil Roo part 1 3:25:20 - Parts of the area are bland, and should've been done as the initial plan of ff9 fossil roo, but I was somehow satisfied with the current design.

Fossil Roo part 2 3:47:00 is a textured Lost library TR4.

The Memoria Part 1 4:07:25 - Just too tiny.

Abstract Manor 4:09:14 - same reasons as the first level manor.

The Memoria & Crystal World (not shown in the video) - While this had a completely new design for TRLE - using pre-rendered backgrounds to capture that FF9 originality, some of the fields like Memoria/Time Interval etc. where not setup correctly, and the walk mesh/walk path and camera angles were off. The battle scenes with the four guardians where on point though.

All the retextured TR4 levels made the game unexceptionally long. It certainly would've been different had it been designed the way intended. Overall, The Mist: Resurrection has a lot of improvements needed to be done, and would've been a better trle game had it been kept as Arch Raider.

I've added remaking The Mist: Resurrection to my queue of projects in UE4, and I'll likely keep the title the same, but bring the main character back from Arch Raider.
__________________
強く>弱い
New Dwight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-09-18, 02:15   #33
New Dwight
Archaeologist
 
New Dwight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,919
Default

--I would've had no indication players got majorly stuck in the beginning levels had no one spoke out as TombRaiderTim did.
And regrading getting it on trle. two reasons:
1. Not worth it, as I likely remake it in UE4 and it's no longer Arch Raider.
2. Michael Prager still has something against me even after all these years.
__________________
強く>弱い
New Dwight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-09-18, 15:40   #34
TombRaiderTim
Archaeologist
 
TombRaiderTim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,563
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Dwight View Post
--I would've had no indication players got majorly stuck in the beginning levels had no one spoke out as TombRaiderTim did.
And regrading getting it on trle. two reasons:
1. Not worth it, as I likely remake it in UE4 and it's no longer Arch Raider.
2. Michael Prager still has something against me even after all these years.
Odd. Michael is an very kind and generous person, you must have done something wrong to annoy him to a point to refuse your levels on trle as I never heard of him refusing anything unless problems occur on the website that needs to be fixed before hand. Fantasy based visuals and geometry when it comes to TRLE is probably one of the hardest things to execute perfectly without any bugs and you must realize there are still limits to this day with the engine itself, even when it gets updates so trying to incorporate so many elements of another game into a old styled engine would be an almost impossible task which is why people keep it Tomb Raider based although they combine some elements that can be used effectively from games with a similar concept and gameplay style to Tomb Raider, ones such as Prince of Persia, Indiana Jones and plenty more.

The only game so far that I have played that really brings you as though you are out of the TRLE engine but still maintaining the Tomb Raider vibe was the King Arthur Project while other ones that do this are usually joke levels that are crazy or make no sense just for the fun of it although some turn out to be pretty amazing and end up being more so than a joke level in the end. I'd defiantly give King Arthur Project, Mists of Avalon and Dreaming for a Revelation a go for some awesome inspiration!
__________________
"You really are a woman after my own heart."

Last edited by TombRaiderTim; 30-09-18 at 18:07.
TombRaiderTim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-18, 02:15   #35
New Dwight
Archaeologist
 
New Dwight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,919
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TombRaiderTim View Post
Odd. Michael is an very kind and generous person,
I thought so too. Back in 2015 iirc, he and I communicated through email and settled everything and he was open willing to host my level on trle.net, but in 2016 he heard some rumors about me; scarce untrue and surely made him think twice about it, I still don't understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TombRaiderTim View Post
Fantasy based visuals and geometry when it comes to TRLE is probably one of the hardest things to execute perfectly without any bugs and you must realize there are still limits to this day with the engine itself, even when it gets updates so trying to incorporate so many elements of another game into a old styled engine would be an almost impossible task which is why people keep it Tomb Raider based although they combine some elements that can be used effectively from games with a similar concept and gameplay style to Tomb Raider, ones such as Prince of Persia, Indiana Jones and plenty more.
The way I've done the battle system with trle/trng turned out perfectly the way I intended it to be. It has no bugs. I knew all the limits of the trle/trng engine and made the battle system work with those engine limits to fit what I wanted it to be. It was not aimed to be 100% RPG turned based classic Final Fantasy, but more of a mixture of turned based (real time~similar FFXII) + Gambitry conditions + a custom style system (my own game). Either way it turned out flawless, and certainly was a workload getting it to work for trle/trng. Though I could certainly see it being subtracted out of Arch Raider, as I brought that ATB system into plan when I switched it to Mist: Resurrection, and since it's heavily inspired by Final Fantasy elements (FF9 mostly) I wanted to bring some originality to RPG.

I did great on TMR, I'm not gonna deny that, while it CERTAINLY has it's flawless without a doubt, I didn't work so long on it to have it thrown away in the trash bin, regardless on what anyone says. If anything, the levels I mentioned in the post above I fancied, and the entire scripting is work enough to be proud of, period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TombRaiderTim View Post
Mists of Avalon and Dreaming for a Revelation a go for some awesome inspiration!
I have played those levels, numerous times, clearly, and they have inspired me, but more on an environmental based and some few script types. Storyline and setting is from myself.

Like I said, whether I decided to remaster TMR in trle, it will have the same title, but be Arch Raider, and likely not include the ATB system, as it didn't way back then while still Arch Raider.
Or I may do it in UE4, we'll see.
I guess I can contact Michael and see where we still stand if he bothers to give me the time of day.

That'll be the main influence for me to remaster TMR in trle.
__________________
強く>弱い
New Dwight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-18, 09:40   #36
Titak
Moderator
 
Titak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Drenthe, The Netherlands
Posts: 31,466
Default

I like how you've been looking at your own levels. How you found the things you like and the things you don't like (anymore).
Doing this, analyzing ones own work, is always very useful when making new stuff, whether with TRLE or UE4 doesn't matter.

And you are absolutely right in being proud of the scripting work.
__________________
If it walks like a duck and if it quacks like a duck, it is a duck.
Titak is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-18, 22:23   #37
New Dwight
Archaeologist
 
New Dwight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,919
Default

Thank you Titak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Titak View Post
I like how you've been looking at your own levels. How you found the things you like and the things you don't like (anymore).
Yes. I've always steered away from critiquing my own work for the sake of believing it's always perfect no questions, doing this was unhealthy and never allowed a room for growth and improvement.
__________________
強く>弱い
New Dwight is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 12:53.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.