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Old 07-06-18, 05:10   #2421
Cochrane
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^^ Yes. Anyway, why are we even talking about empty seats? That's Disney's problem, not mine, mine is just whether the movies are any good (and I also find it important that all humans involved are being treated okay). The Last Jedi is a good Star Wars movie in large part because it does not try to recreate the "typical" Star Wars movie. By not doing that, obviously it upsets the people who thought they needed and were entitled to more "typical" Star Wars movies forever. A huge part of the backlash does not seem to be because the movie was bad, but because it was different.

Not all of the backlash, obviously, the movie was far from perfect. There's some valid criticism to be directed at many of its choices and structure. I actually feel we see too little discussion of that.

And let's face it, a lot of the backlash is indeed racist and/or misogynist in nature. The internets are full of people complaining about "social agendas" in the movies (even in this very thread) or "SJW wars" or whatever. I'm not going to say that everyone who uses the term SJW seriously is a racist, simply because I don't feel like fighting all of them. But when someone's complaints can be summed up as, "there are girls and brown people here now and I hate that and I think someone put them there to annoy me", the problem does not lie with the movie in my opinion.
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Old 07-06-18, 06:30   #2422
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^ Maybe you just don't get it or don't want to pay close attention to the real issue at hand about new Star Wars. The complaints are NOT about that there are minority people as the main cast, it's mainly due to that these agendas are shoehorned into the movies and not well executed. The latest Star Wars movie is tanking badly financially (and it has a male lead mind you) because it is not a good Star Wars movie, simple.

If the makers of Tomb Raider decided to make Lara Croft a man for no particular reason other than to impress current social media trends and movements, then I'm sure that's gonna rub most people the wrong way. Unless if they can execute that idea very well about why she had a sex change than people can embrace that change.

Change is good if it's handled well, if not then it's bound to piss off a lot of people.
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Old 07-06-18, 07:12   #2423
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I take issue with the word agenda (among many other things). Increasing representation of women is not some massive shift that undermines everything and destroys the franchise. It’s simply a necessary update to (try to) make the franchise relevant to the 21st century. If you want to be cynical you could say it is similar to the much better visual effects: Something without which the franchise would just appear horribly dated. There is no visual effects agenda either.

If you want to talk about how TLJ wanted to include classism and war profiteering, but then forgot to actually integrate that into the story in any way, then sure, I’m with you there. But one movie does not make an agenda.
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Old 07-06-18, 07:24   #2424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thabani33 View Post
because it is not a good Star Wars movie, simple.
I really wish people would stop treating their opinions as facts. There's no objective measure for this, it's all down to personal preference.
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Old 08-06-18, 01:41   #2425
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Quote:
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Yes, you absolutely can brush it off.

The demographic you're referring to is loud, and they feel the franchise either belongs to them or owes them for their years of loyalty. These so-called devotees makes up no greater a percentage of the people who watched The Last Jedi than this forum represents a percentage of people who played Rise of the Tomb Raider.

If they don't show up, no one is going to care except them. Everyone else is still going to show up in enough numbers for money to be made.
Out of curiosity what do the top stories say when you put 'star wars solo' into google? Because out of the 3 on mine one of them on is an article by forbes describing it as a 'box office failure' and one is an article by the daily express titled 'Star Wars Han Solo FLOP and fan boycott: 'Kathleen Kennedy GONE by September?'

Maybe that's just algorithms showing me something they think I want to see,


Quote:
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it's mainly due to that these agendas are shoehorned into the movies and not well executed.
Quote:
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Increasing representation of women is not some massive shift that undermines everything and destroys the franchise. It’s simply a necessary update to (try to) make the franchise relevant to the 21st century.
Weird how you don't see many of those same people complaining about the news that James Cameron is making a new Terminator film and bringing Linda Hamilton back likely as the lead.

Ever thought about why that might be?
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Old 08-06-18, 02:11   #2426
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Maybe that's just algorithms showing me something they think I want to see,
Yes.
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Old 08-06-18, 04:55   #2427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redfox45 View Post
Weird how you don't see many of those same people complaining about the news that James Cameron is making a new Terminator film and bringing Linda Hamilton back likely as the lead.

Ever thought about why that might be?
Because I haven’t heard of it? I mean, I haven’t, and I haven’t complained, so the correlation looks pretty strong there.

Also, I am utterly confused: Why would/should I complain about that? Like, yes, obviously I want Natalie Dorner to be Sarah Connor, just to complete the set of Game of Throne queens. But more than that, I want a good Terminator movie/show, and the only folks to ever pull that off were James Cameron and Josh Friedman, so seeing one of them return is nice. And while there hasn’t been a bad Sarah Connor (Genisys was not a good movie, but the Khaleesi-Gouvernator relationship was great), seeing the original return in probably yet another upgrade and retooling of her role is interesting at least.

But all of that has no relation to Star Wars whatsoever. I'm not trying to be flippant or dismissively here, I literally have no idea why you brought that up. (I'm not even sure whether you were talking or me or about me; my post assumes the latter, sorry if I got that wrong.)
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Old 08-06-18, 10:24   #2428
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Terminator is such a poor comparison to make. It seems that people are genuinely unaware that there is even going to be a new Terminator film, much less that Linda Hamilton is going to be reprising her role in it (supported by the fact it seems that anybody I've asked are surprised there's another film being made - and the fact that Michael Biehn himself told me that not many people had asked about it when I spoke to him at MCM two weeks back). Most people just assumed that Genisys would kill the franchise for good.

I assume that same mindset is somewhat prevailent to Star Wars after the divisiveness of The Last Jedi. It's like people forget that Star Wars has always had its ups and downs. Solo is an enjoyable film. Rogue One is the best of the new films and I think it's almost as good as Empire, but it's almost as if one film has somehow tarnished everything that came before it as well as everything that comes after. I never considered an agenda being broadcast by any of it (TBH L3's 'droid rights' thing came off almost as an exaggeration, like they were purposefully making fun of it), and I would wager the average moviegoer didn't either.
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Old 08-06-18, 11:06   #2429
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I like all the Terminator movies. :P
They are not my most favorite movies but i like them enough, the concept doesnt give you too much variety to work with...but they are fun scifi action movies.
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Old 08-06-18, 21:47   #2430
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Here's a little something I found on YT today, and thought I'd share it. I know I probably should have posted in in the "what are you currently listening to" thread, but I thought this lot would appreciate it more. Now that said...

*passes hand slowly across everyone's line of vision*

This IS the metal cover you are looking for...

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