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Old 24-04-15, 07:42   #11
psiko
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Originally Posted by JunoJim View Post
Psiko - this looks very professional. You are the TR Master !!!
Thank you Jim, don't read the spoiler, you are still playing it! there are many masters of trle, many members in this forum are I think we all learn by one each other

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Originally Posted by akci View Post
Please don't. It's bad enough that official games are becoming ever more easier, sometimes insultingly so, by trying to appeal to everyone, that awful lowest common denominator thing
LOL, I never thought in term of "insulting" players with a so easy gameplay, but I think that word describes exactly what happens
When I build my game, I often have some doubts if a puzzle, or enigma, or a platforms section is easy or not. Besides building what I would like to play, I have a rule for my levels: never underestimate players. Players can give many surprises, if they "see" that things are done with a "conscience" behind the design, that is, if there is a "level" design. Many times I was afraid people would not "eat" all of my new moves till to become "creative" in using them. I am referring to all the rockets new moves. I was afraid many would call for a blasphemy in TR normal gameplay, rather than an "enhancement" like I intended. But after having built half a level for tutorials on them, I decided exactly to not underestimate TR players, and that I could "force" some hard task with the new moves: not so many, but some few. I saw in all the walkthrough videos out there that exactly, players became "creative" with them, and not only they solved the puzzles, but even were using the new moves to do normal things faster, and were using the rockets exactly the way I use them too, and I intended to be used So I was happy. In my gameplay, I try to do always new things and not give the same enigma twice, unless there is a variant that makes it new or from a different point of view. So giving constantly new things is hard for an entire game.
For instant, I think that the time flux specimen feature is a really new thing that gives infinite new possibilities: it was hard to design levels that work anytime, with players that could use it anytime even unpredictably. The levels were TFS is enabled, are 5: so five entire levels were you could not use weapons at all. It could become frustrating and repeative, but it was not, and it was something that neither official games did for a so long duration. Then, as I wanted to give infinite ammos, all the weapons, infinite health, all the levels were designed without those pickups, that means every little bit of the levels should have had a "reason", a "use", a "part to be played", not only hiding an item or a secret. In this sense, the design of HS levels is really optimized, every sector (or so) is useful.
Designing it, was hard: everything in the inventory was infinite, no normal pickups, no weapons at all in the last levels (so enemy could harm you, but I gave some hand-to-hand new moves), the time flux specimen always available.

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Originally Posted by akci View Post
There will always be a few who complain about a game being too difficult, but surely there is a silent majority who don't
well, if it is silent, how did I know it exists, lol it is like the "dark matter of trle world".. it's there but silent In the past years I was afraid (and still I am afraid) classic hard core/core design players were vanished because they grew up, now they have a job, a family to worry about, real life matters. This means that many of modern players could have known TR and Lara by Crystal games, and only later the knew Core games. This means that my way of designing could be for someones who do not have the time/chance/will to play anymore. I remember the platforming jumps on fire sectors with a pool below (the one with mice) in Mida's Palace in tr1: that was very hard for that time (now we can do it with closed eyes, I think), and for me TR is about difficulties to be handled with satisfaction, with a sense of challenge, but not frustrating. When I build something I try to not give frustration, but when I released HS, many tried endlessly some task even if it was clear they were not the task to do in that moment, and they insisted, in certain cases, so many times that they were able to succeed, finding so a bug.. Instead, in my games, if a thing is "that" hard, maybe it's time to try something different on somewhere else (for example, the chimneys with vertical fires in the first level, that was intended to be a firewall, but a player succeeded to go there before it was the right time: luckily I design my games that if people reach a place too soon, they have to do all the things all the same, even if in a different order - this is one of the 2 or 3 bugs I have to fix with Link12)

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Originally Posted by akci View Post
I remember you once said that the difficulty of your TRA begins where that of TR3 ends.
And I still agree with that opinion, and I still repeat it. And somehow this one:
"the difficulty of your future games should begin where TRA left off." is what I try to achieve

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Originally Posted by akci View Post
I've found Hypersquare a step back in that regard. Just a small step though generally, and there were some things that made me scratch me head, but in TRA there were far more of those.
I think you are the only one in this world who tells me that HS was somehow easy, lol

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Come on, challenge us!
I will try my best Consider that among all the other things, I try to build levels cheat-free

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As for the screenshots, absolutely stunning I have no doubt whatsoever that it will be a visual masterpiece, but that's pretty much the norm by you.
Well, I do not know if it is a norm, but once, a friend of mine let me notice, that exactly when things are flawless it is the time when there was the biggest work in it I know someones could think that things "come up from the computer itself" of that it's easy to build such things, but at least for me it's time and efforts consuming I am sure many other custom level designers here will agree

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Originally Posted by Mordyga View Post
I was amazed by your level design, especially by the ones when Lara travelled in the past. I hope for more goodies like that in future relase Good luck
Different locations also in season2, sure But the huge variety as seen in those levels will come back for season3, but it is too soon for now In season2 there will be many news all the same
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Old 26-04-15, 07:47   #12
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Features that can make the game easier raised some red flags, but it was very reassuring to read your thoughts on the matter, thank you.
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building what I would like to play ... never underestimate players
That is probably the best attitude.

And just to clarify, I never said easy, lol. Just somewhat eaiser than TRA. Then again, there is about a decade of accumulated player experience between them, so perhaps the direct comparison is unfair.
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Old 26-04-15, 10:49   #13
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Please don't. It's bad enough that official games are becoming ever more easier, sometimes insultingly so, by trying to appeal to everyone, that awful lowest common denominator thing, but it just devalues that product IMO. There will always be a few who complain about a game being too difficult...
I lately started Season 1. I mostly launched it because I saw many frustrated people and I wanted to prove they're wrong. But, holy mother of holy father, I feel like a kid who opens a grandma's wardrobe of various souvenirs from entire life, and has no clue about their purpose. I agree official games dumb us down (so I play nothing but custom levels anymore) and I like challenge, but also to prevail after a reasonable amount of time. The "time" is relative but definitely gone if exploring a pretty level for three hours feels like three hours. I read there are "lots of new objects so keep trying" but I don't know if the author is aware about the number of combinations that may come to player mind when a packload of items draws the attention away. I only found the pipe because I tried to pick up the wooden planks nearby - I'm not stuck because I run out of ideas, but because I have too many! Indeed a revolution in gameplay, though the effect is still the same trial and error.

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Originally Posted by Akci
the difficulty of your future games should begin where TRA left off. I've found Hypersquare a step back in that regard. Just a small step though generally, and there were some things that made me scratch me head, but in TRA there were far more of those.
TechnoEgyptians had such moments, but one could always learn the new world, what is totally skipped here - and "Help files" barely help, because they only explain traps which have clear goal, so in fact it's easier to evade lasers in 20th attempt than to open a door. After several hours of struggling with the map sized to what could fit in 20x20x20 challenge, I had a great temptation to refer to the walkthrough for I saw no more point in playing without it. And that's just the first level... Well I will try again today evening. Three doors opened, so maybe I just skipped something plainly obvious

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but surely there is a silent majority who don't, it's just human nature that when there everything is fine then there's nothing to talk about
I won't agree. There are some games considered perfect, and still loads of long reviews on them.
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Old 26-04-15, 12:42   #14
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DJ Full, but the fact is, you don't do things that are obvious. You opened 3 doors.. have you gone there to press the 3 switches available? they are there.. no need to search in every step of the level. I know that if I build a new interactive world, I still have to put things in evidence. That interactive polerope IS evidenced. It's the only pole in the level and above it, there is a catwalk and a jump switch to be pressed. The crate to be moved IS evidenced. It's the only one that is broken and there are only other 2 you can walk on that are obviously framed by the surrounding environment. Where you have to move the crate IS evidenced: there's a manhole with a HS logo on it. The new switch to be pressed once the crate is moved, IS evidenced: it's something with a strange 3d form with a red and white texture, a sort of out of place texturizzation. It is not camouflaged at all, it's in front of player's eyes after a parallel bar.. still evidenced, it has 2 handles/plates where lara is supposed to grab with her hands.
I would agree with you (and others) if I did build a garden full of grass and there was an item to pick up which was a still identical piece of grass. Or, if in a huge unclear labyrinth with all identical panels you had to search for the only interactive one. I put "everything" in front of your eyes. And what I put in front of your eyes is no camouflaged at all. And everytime something happens, a camera shows you where to go. If you miss to go where I beg you to do, you can't complain with me for not being clear..
Then, don't forget what you learn: you learned that there is a new interactive polerope, then in following levels just take this as granted.. and again, I NEVER camouflaged things in none of the following levels too, and with this I mean that I try to be the more honest I can. The "facilitations" I talk about that I will put, are to make things even more evident in Link12...

Last edited by psiko; 26-04-15 at 12:43.
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Old 26-04-15, 16:13   #15
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That interactive polerope IS evidenced. The crate to be moved IS evidenced. The new switch IS evidenced. a parallel bar.. still evidenced
I don't speak about evidences, but about many objects which are also unique yet not interactive, what implies a lot of blind guessing.

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Originally Posted by psiko
If you miss to go where I beg you to do, you can't complain with me for not being clear..
That camera begged me twice and nothing happened, while the 4th door was still locked, so returning to that place in that particular moment was the last thing to consider. In the Fire Pylon level, You didn't require placing 7 diamonds in order to unlock the 8th one and that was correct design, because one simply does not create a totally non-linear puzzle and suddenly demand from players to switch to linear thinking, especially when a whole map of new things is explorable. I complained about identical design in Crystal Skulls, where placing one gem is only allowed after placing another. That setup is simplier yet it still took me a lot of time to figure out, just because a misleading puzzle was the last thing I expected from a team of world-class builders. Since the same happened here, it's actually a compliment for You - I apparenly got stuck just because I did not underestimate the author.

Now I pulled all the levers and my current confusion is even greater, because the leveljump is possible (so now there are TWO explorable maps like if a single one wasn't enough), yet the camera shows me there's still something to do in the current unit. How am I supposed to tell which of these things is "begging" me to be followed? If You really want to be consistent, then be consistent. I of course do believe the solution is right in front of my eyes though, so, once again, I'll launch the game and try to find out.

Last edited by DJ Full; 26-04-15 at 16:15.
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Old 26-04-15, 16:55   #16
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in fire pylon level, as you mention that, you had to rescue 8 pieces and 2 doors opened when you had all of them (4 for each of the two trapdoors) so the puzzle was different, when inserted them: it was not possible to leave one of the diamonds unpicked

In this case, we have simply 4 doors in line, but each of the doors once opened have a valve to be pressed. The 4 valves are not "beyond" the fourth door, so there is no reason to "deduce" (or give for granted) that you need to open the fourth door to press the first three which are already available. Sorry, but why should you wait? Only because you are too used with the same old puzzle in tr1 level. But there were no switches available once each of the doors were opened, like in this case.

The fourth door opens also the way to second level, which is a bit wider in term of exploration, than the first one. I know after that is open, there are two levels to explore, but if you said this way seems a lot to do. Instead, the first level is no more than a 20x20x20 level: seems a lot wider level but it is not, in the beginning.. I can show you the prj, if you wish The map is really tiny.

About the evidence, I talk about this because if detail is added, it is almost normal to check everything, but the "real" interactive items are, yes, evidenced. And I really do not know how to add detail and avoiding you to press action for every item. If you have a solution, please tell me which is. My solution was to make every really interactive item a bit "different" than the surrounding or a bit weirder. If you wish to have a smoking addeffect on every interactive item, or a glowing overimpressed image, this is not what I am for. I hate that kind of helps.

I am sorry you are using sarcasm, I never wanted, and I still don't want, to insult you because I really respect you and I find you are one of the cleverest mind in this trle world, so I do not know why this sarcasm only because I said that things are in face of the players.

Do you want to know one thing? I am sure that if in a clean room I had put a dark spot, you should have directly searched for a jump switch or a crawlspace in that dark place, and you would have said the level is enjoyable and easy. Well, if you want or expect such "enigmas" from me, then stop playing, because I "really" put things in sight. It's one of the things I keep in mind when I build. You won't have to search for a climbable wall because it is textured with a blant variant of the same old texture: my climbable walls are always "there" available and you'll have to understand what it is for.

I am not saying my point of view is correct or other points of view are uncorrect. But I think many, many years without one of my level reduced the players to search always for the same kind of enigmas. And let's not talk about Lara's home remakes. My levels follow 2 or 3 basic rules.

1) do an exploration of the space available and take some point of reference before doing anything.

2) find the first thing to do and follow the camera hints

3) if a place is in front of view but unaccessible, it is for later, you won't miss anything in my levels.

4) if one thing is that hard to achieve (like the fires in the chimneys area), don't insist, it is for later.

5) you often come back to the same place from a different point of view and map will unfold gradually.
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Old 26-04-15, 17:15   #17
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The 4 valves are not "beyond" the fourth door, so there is no reason to "deduce" (or give for granted) that you need to open the fourth door to press the first three which are already available. Sorry, but why should you wait? Only because you are too used with the same old puzzle in tr1 level.
Not because of this, but because the first one triggered the first angel, the second one triggered the second angel, and since the remaining two are identical, I couldn't know the third one will trigger the third angel AND the rope. In fact the more logical I try to think, the more stuck I get... so I really don't see a point to alter a puzzle which is consistent to something which seems not to be. Even though it's a kind of invention indeed, it's a very misleading one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psiko
I am sure that if in a clean room I had put a dark spot, you should have directly searched for a jump switch or a crawlspace in that dark place, and you would have said the level is enjoyable and easy.
I would search, but I don't enjoy such things.

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I am sorry you are using sarcasm
No, I didn't. Sorry if I sound like that.

Last edited by DJ Full; 26-04-15 at 17:18.
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Old 26-04-15, 17:21   #18
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No, I didn't. Sorry if I sound like that.
oh, fine, thank you, I felt like it was really gratuitous and made me sad, so thank you to clarify that
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Old 26-04-15, 18:42   #19
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Here's a personal opinion, which i'll share and hope you'll read.

That there's enough detail in your levels there's no denial to that. Your worlds are incredibly detailed and filled with passion.

Though what might lack, in my opinion, is sense of direction/composition/guidance. We humans simply focus on a light source, sharpness or contrast in a painting. What i noticed in Hyper Square is that there was no focal point, having me wander arround for hours until i reached the second level simply by actually brainlessly pressing action on things.

I was just released in this huge new world i do not know. Like a kid blindfolded in a forest with the only assignment to find my way to the exit. The result: walking circles over and over again.

Its really great that you have a sense of detail as not many people have such patience for it, but if you'd only guide me as a player by using my instincts to lead me through your world - That'd make things a lot easier. Because i really like hard inventive tasks, no problem. As long as they're meant for me to be amused.

Last edited by TheTiger; 26-04-15 at 18:46.
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Old 26-04-15, 18:57   #20
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it's not a problem in expressing your opinion, why shouldn't I read it?
How far have you gone in the game?
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