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Old 18-09-17, 20:26   #11
Sabatu
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Thank you all Now I know what to make and what do I need to throw to the trash ( Ropes.. mega pushable puzzle )..

I Like:
best game ever ( for me) himalay mystery and mist of avalon
Always oldschool gamestyla ( tr1-5)
more ways ( tr3 was master in this, especialy Madubu Gorge) Quick(kayak)Longer ( all secrets and rock climbing)
PS1 graphics and soundfx ( I really miss reverb. and water from ps1)
There was even more contrast.. dark area was darker and bright was brighter.. ( TR1 for example.. beautifull colorfull on PS1 and for PC Grey filter with UGLY pink-purble water)
I Hate:
1) Shoter games ( thousands of enemy to kill ) Area game from back to classic was great D
2)What I really hate is levels where developer used Tr1 or TR2 textures and then there is colors (there are few levels that are good or great) but some is not..
3)When you see game where in room is all rainbow palete of colors ...
or great level with water with color ( RGB 0 0 255) acid or lava is ok..
4) I like just simple colorlesss water ( black and white) but when you look out of water, everything is green That's killing me

Last edited by Sabatu; 18-09-17 at 20:27.
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Old 19-09-17, 08:52   #12
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^ some things you mentioned are hardcoded, i.e. there is no way to get rid of greenish tint when look from water. Also there is no way to add PS1 effects to PC custom levels. These things are beyond abilities of builders for now, so you have to live with that
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Old 22-09-17, 22:18   #13
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Like:
Variety of locations (a rare thing to find in levelsets)

Hate:
Absolutely ridiculous dificulty,hard puzzles doesn't necessarily mean a good puzzle.

Miss:
Villains in the story. It's usually just Lara and the artifact.
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Old 24-09-17, 10:47   #14
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Like:
Some people here already said that big, empty places suck where Lara can be lost. I must say I like beautiful cityscapes and landscapes in huge rooms, I like adventuring and discovering with Lara there. (If only when you say "empty" that means "there are hardly any tasks here". If you say "empty" with the literal meaning nothing is there, this room is only a big cube after all - well, that is something that I also hate.) Naturally I also don't like to be lost there, searching for a tiny, hidden feature without any clues.
I am a discoverer type, I like it more than hard jumps, rough traps, wild battles etc.

Hate:
Okay, I understand that sometimes the circumstances must be irrealistic (like a floating island level). But in many cases (like an urban level) the realism should be a kinda must.
I mean, builders should be careful with things like this:

- Communicating vessels. When the two entrances of the U-shaped vertical water tunnel has on different levels.
- An ancient tomb opened by Lara first after one thousand years - and what you can see first are flaming torches on the wall. Some tricks would be nice here: eg. in a cutscene a procedure starts when Lara steps in, leading oil to the torches, and the sunbeams there will make the torches flaming. Or something easier, like "grates on the ceiling", like in the classic Catacombs, to let the sunlight in luxuriantly. Etc.
- A big house/room built with the only seeable reason to host a switch.
- Another ancient tomb - with Uzi ammo clips on a pedestal. That is logical, right? Ancient Egyptians put some Uzi ammo there for future visitors. Okay, I understand it is hard, but there should be other solutions. For example, Lara casts some ancient magic first to turn all the ancient ammo in the tomb into modern ammo. Or several baddies killed there will drop the ammo. Or not Lara is the first person here after the old times, mercenaries have already got in there, they let the ammo there. (However, medipacks in ancient forms, still being useable, seem logical.)
- Etc.

Miss:
I have already talked about the "forgotten features" in another thread like the detector or poisoned arrows etc.

Last edited by AkyV; 26-09-17 at 19:34.
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Old 24-09-17, 17:17   #15
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Like:
Exploring is a must and I am NOT talking about the back and fro what unnecessary prologues the gameplay. Like finding a lever in (as a for instance) at the start of a level, running almost all the way to the end and then fining out that behind that door is an artefact what you need at the beginning. I donít mind going back and fro, but not for that purpose, if you get my drift.

Hate:
Hard timed runs and mindless shooters.
No camera work to speak off, however I donít mind no camera if the action (or whatever) is near by. Also camera showing something that is miles away so how would I know if I havenít been there yet.
Hate it when builders use objects that have wrong collision or do not work properly. Like the swing pole when she grabs way above or under the pole, change it or look for a better one. Also the wrong collision that underwater doors sometimes have, nasty.
Banana jumps, it shows me that the builder is too lazy to think of something else for a solution. Like one builder told me that mazes are for lazy builders, well the same goes for banana jumps and he is right.

Miss:
Good and well thought gameplay. I just love it when I have a so called ďaha ErlebnisĒ. You see a number of builders too focussed on object and graphics and just use them for the heck of it.

But luckily there are some fantastic builders still out there so I am very pleased about that.
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Old 03-10-17, 17:50   #16
FantaseaII
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What i like :

- Everything underwater, caves... secret bases etc...
- Levels that follow a single path (where you don't have to do back too much...)
- Giant caves with jump sequences and a good use of swing poles / ropes / ledge climbing
- Boss battles that are "well done"
Level with a "realistic logic", who puts some medipacks in an ancient temples ?
- Secret hidden rooms
- CUTSCENES this is really a plus for me i really really love cutscenes in retro TR games
- Train levels
- Some space / futuristic / esoteric atmospheres
- New animations (scripted or not)
- Jump scares, for exemple when you hide an ugly ennemy behind a door you just opened
- Creatures
- TR6 like levels
- Levels edited with meta2tr

what i hate :

- time run
- too much puzzle objects to find
- giant level where you don't have any hints to start
- Useless ennemies
- Level where cracks are visible underwater
- Caves where triangles are too much visibles i don't know how to explain :/

what i miss :

- Variety of vehicles (Kayak, quads etc...)
- Other characters than lara (Hello kurtis lol)
- Ropes
- Adventures with many levels and a good story (K.A.P / HM / UB4)
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Last edited by FantaseaII; 03-10-17 at 17:52.
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Old 04-10-17, 13:38   #17
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Like:
  • Places that can be explored but without being open world.
    Meaning that I do like exploring, but at the same time, Lara's space should be limited so you don't end up traveling LONG distances only to find out you needed a key or something at the end there.
  • When there's a certain logic to things in both gameplay and the looks of a level.
  • A bit of magic in levels. Something magical/mystical/esoteric, fantasy elements.
  • Natural environments mixed with manmade structures, preferably old structures.
  • Platforming,
    without some of the stuff I put in my "hate" section.
  • Finding modern ammo in ancient tombs.
    This is an odd one for me because even though it is not realistic at all, I still like to go looking for such pickups. Like in TR1. Every time I play TR1 I enjoy looking for all those pickups.
    And because I like it in TR1, I've decided to put it in my "like" section.
    That said... I'm going for the more realistic approach in my WIP "Mists of Avalon part2 game..."
  • Some nice (new) puzzles.
    This can be a lot of things really. Puzzles that need a bit of thinking, harder puzzles. Puzzles/setups that use new objects and/or new animations for both the object(s) and Lara.
  • Levels that look good and have atmosphere.
    Be it textures, lighting, atmosphere, objects, the whole package.
    Be it classic assets only or custom HD stuff, does not matter. Both are great when done right.
  • Lara's "bottomless pit" backpack.
  • A story.
    I do not hate games without a story and that are simply about Lara going into a place and at the end she emerges with the throphy, but I do like it when people have added a story and this story plays out nicely. Using cutscenes, voice-overs or text on the screen or a diary of some sort, does not matter when done nicely.
  • New animations for Lara.
    As long as they are done well and don't have weird controls.
  • When a game has a good "soundscape".
    When sounds and background audio are fitting for the environment, samples have the correct pitch and volume and such.
    When levels use ambient background audio instead of music all the time. Music often gets annoying after a while.


Not everything in the following "hate" section is really hate hate in a way that I quit playing a level when I see it.
Most things are more of a nuisance or are annoying instead of really hate.

Hate:
  • Switches shouldn't open up gates on the other end of a level.
    Unless it is made clear that there's somehow a connection between the switch and the gates, like chains or cogs or flowing water through a previously empty canal or whatever.
  • Mismatching objects/textures and locations.
    For example clearly Egyptian objects and textures in a level that supposedly takes place in Central America, without an explanation as to why they might be there. Or something along these lines of mismatching textures/objects and locations. Tropical sea fish or tropical (water) plants in an outdoor setting in a cold place.
    This is not really a hate thing, but more a thing that takes away from the immersion.
    This said, no need for all builders to become scholars in history and art, but nowadays we have enough resources available to at least get a close enough representation of a general location. Aztec, Toltec and Mayan are all different, but I do not think it is necessary to really go into the differences there. Same for the different Greek or Egyptian era's.
  • Objects going into eachother or into roomgeometry when it is clearly not meant for those objects to do that.
    Chairs going into walls and paintings going into pillars for example.
    I don't mind plants going into walls much, as long as it is not large treebranches doing that.
  • Pixel-perfect jumps.
    I don't mind a couple thrown in, especially if it is a multi-level game, or if they are needed to get to a secret for example, but all the time? No.
  • Banana jumps, other very curved jumps and other moves that require a perfect timing of hitting certain keys.
    Like for example where Lara can land on a ledge below by hopping back off the ledge and then pressing Action at the right moment.
    Moves like that somehow feel like cheat moves to me...
  • Very tight timed runs.
    And a very tight timed run for me is one where I need more than 10 tries to make it.
  • Lots of objects that hinder Lara's progress due to their collision.
    I also use a lot of objects in my games, but I also try to make and place them in such a way that the player does not get stuck in them every other step.
  • Limited pistol ammo
    Even when the builders has provided plenty of ammo to pick up.
  • Difficult (boss) fights which fastly drain Lara's health and then not having enough medipacks. Or some more powerfull ammo.
  • Checkpoint/savecrystal save system...
    Even when implemented pretty well, with enough opportunities to save the game, I still do not like it much.
    To me it feels like an artificial way of making a game harder.
    And don't tell me that's how it worked in the classics, because that's not how it worked for me: I've only played the games on PC.
  • Traps or tough enemies every other room.
    I don't mind traps (or traps gauntlets) and I don't mind enemies, but not in every other room for the entire level(set). Give the girl a break will ya!
    So no shooter games for me either.
  • Custom animations that look odd or that are buggy.
    Lara is what we see all the time. If her animations are shaky and/or buggy, it bugs the hell out of me.
  • A clearly visible end-of-the world, seen from the playable area.
    Not really a hate, but it is something that makes me kinda sad when I see it...
    Mind you, I'm not talking about spots you can get to by finding a non-intended route or by using cheats/glitches.
    Seeing the end of the world makes Lara's world look fake and small in my opinion.
  • Puzzles that need a lot of trial and error to solve.
    A player should somehow be able to figure out what needs to be done.
    If that takes 1 or 2 trial-and-error moves to see what happens, I'm fine with it, but the whole puzzle shouldn't have to be solved this way. For example with pushable puzzles where it is not clear in any way where the pushables should be placed.
    No need for "in your face dude" hints either, it is perfectly fine to have to think for yourself a bit to solve it.
  • Lots of backtracking.
    Especially when the path is riddled with traps you have to go through over and over again, or when it is a long route, or when you have to go the same route multiple times.
    I've been guilty of backtracking myself (it was especially mentioned in HM) and while I don't always think it is a bad thing, it is better when the path back is either a different path or other things have to be done. Like the traps are now disabled, or if they were disabled before, they are enabled on the way back. Or enemies appear, or...

Miss:
  • Secret areas like in TR3 Gold.
    Those were often completely different areas, especially the prehistoric cave in "The Chunnel" level.
    I know it can be very difficult to ad such different areas, because I always run into limits, especially the texture limits. And such areas would require different textures, and perhaps even different objects.
  • Alternative routes.
    I liked this very much in TR3 and that one level in TR4.
    This said, I've been trying to add this to my levels on several occasions but as with the special secret areas mentioned above, I have never been able to do it...
  • Stealth
    Like in the London levels in TR3 where you have to duck and crawl behind crate and such to avoid being spotted by the guards.
  • Villains in a story
    (thanks to Xopax for this one. )
    Not just the random enemies that Lara encounters, but an actual organisation or person that's at the head of all those enemies.
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Last edited by Titak; 04-10-17 at 13:43.
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Old 05-10-17, 02:42   #18
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I didn't read all the posts so far because I don't want them to affect my personal opinions too much, so I write what comes to mind first. Some of these may have been mentioned many times already - anyhow, the more something gets repeated the more likely it has an affect on the builders' intentions in the future.

I am a player and I've never built anything, so I concentrate on the levels from the player's perspective. Meaning I don't put too much focus on technical problems like graphical errors or problems with Lara's movements, but how the level is as a playable game instead.

Like:

- Intelligent puzzles that force the player to think for themselves. Every now and then a real brain racking is enjoyable too, but it's good to remember that too much is too much: if there are very difficult puzzles one after the another, it spoils the actual fun. For example, Richard Lawther is an excellent level builder, but in his early levels (like Ocean Moon) the puzzles were always so difficult that I honestly ended up quitting the levels after a few and never got back to them. All of us TR players love to investigate and get eventually stuck for a while, but if you're constantly feeling you're stuck and the level doesn't feel to evolve, at least I tend to quit quite easily.

- When it's obvious that the game was built with a huge passion. There are lots of great builders (teme9, Richard Lawther, l.m., Titak, vinraider, Clara, masha, Sponge, Max etc.) whose levels just scream the love for classic Tomb Raiders. The level might not be perfect in every possible way but it's clear that the builder has gotten what Tomb Raider is all about. I love seeing pure devotion.

- Clever traps. It's nice if the traps really make you jumpscare. For example, Titak uses suddenly falling rocks that work very well in that matter. One other Titak's trap that I absolutely loved was the spider attack in MoA. It's nice if the trap can be avoided by seeing some signs of its existence, but every now and then I think it's totally acceptable to just make Lara die without player having no clue of it. Also, the jumpscares don't necessarily have to be anything huge and prominent. For example, in TR3's Aldwych a shortly barking dog jumping at Lara from behind is a very effective jumpscare trick.

- City environments. Coastal as well. Also, there are very many cute and lovable Easter and Christmas levels, which I tend to repeat every Easter/Christmas. No Xmas Without a Tree by l.m. is one of my all time favorites of that kind.

- Acrobatics. I love puzzles and routes where Lara has to use sideways jumps, swing in poles and make long jumps etc.

- Jokes or "intertextual" hints to other TR games. The feeling of recognition is a heartwarming experience, it's like a silent, satisfying understanding between a builder and the whole TR community.


Hate:

- A definite number one: Long pushing sequences. I hate having to push blocks or pushables around endlessly and every time I see the next section is about a lot of pushing I scream inside my head. If the puzzle's small enough it doesn't yet get annoying, but anything such as the planet pushing puzzle in The Lost Library in TLR is an absolute annoyance for me.

- Too long crawling sections. This was helped a LOT when the crawling roll animation was developed and the crawling got notably faster, but if that move isn't included in a level, I hate to crawl long distances because it's just so damn SLOW.

- Too dark levels with too little flares. I never use cheat codes when first playing a level, so it's very irritating when you run out of flares too soon. I usually just save in the beginning of a new area, use all my flares trying to figure out a way to go forward, and then reload and start with full flares again. That works pretty well, but still it's polite to provide a player more than 1-2 flarepacks in big and long parts that are very dark.

- Vehicles that get easily stuck. This is very annoying especially in levels that are otherwise very good, but you're supposed to use a vehicle many times and it gets stuck in every object and fence that comes along. One example of this is the motorbike in Secret Agent. I really hated to use the motorbike in it and there was a LOT of driving around on it.

- Tight timed runs. I like timed runs in general, but it's unbelievably annoying if you have to do many tricky jumps etc. after pulling a lever and you end up failing dozens of times.

- Too long flybies or flybies that seem to have no apparent point. I like to see an overview of a certain area, but if it's like two minutes of showing around all the possible little cracks and items, it's just a waste of time. Also, if the area is huge and there are millions of doors and there's no a flyby to show which one was opened, it's sometimes a bit tiring to look for the same place over and over again.

- Having to backtrack a lot. There's a level in which this was a real problem: Richard Lawther's Shalebridge Murder Mystery. I really loved the level as a whole, though, and I've played it twice, but for a player that doesn't use walkthrough, playing that level ends up to be a nightmare. Even if you knew the level route by heart or played it with using the walkthrough on every step, there's still a huge amount of backtracking, and playing with no hints from outside multiplies it exponentially.

- When the level clearly hasn't been betatested properly. For example: a) falling down to a deep pit where Lara can't get out of b) noticing you're supposed to commit suicide or c) getting permanently stuck in illegal ledges repeatedly makes the level instantly feel badly designed.

- When the pistol ammo is limited. I get the point of it as a feeling of survival or something, but still I like to know, while playing, that if I really run out of pickable ammo, the pistols can always be trusted.

- Underwater mazes, especially if they're exhaustingly long. Please, try to avoid them.


There would be SO much more, but the post is quite long already, so I might get back on this later on.
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Last edited by Tulilintu; 28-10-17 at 13:54.
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Old 13-10-17, 05:49   #19
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Quote:
- Too dark levels with too little flares. I never use cheat codes when first playing a level, so it's very irritating when you run out of flares too soon. I usually just save in the beginning of a new area, use all my flares trying to figure out a way to go forward, and then reload and start with full flares again. That works pretty well, but still it's polite to provide a player more than 1-2 flarepacks in big and long parts that are very dark.
You can Also use the binoculairs and use ctrl to light up the entire room!
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Old 13-10-17, 11:01   #20
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^ that is not very practical tbh
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