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Old 08-08-17, 17:18   #21
Chamayoo
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I quite like your control scheme and it inspires me to do some combos.

Sprint + jump : Big jump
Sprint + duck/roll : Slide

Jump + duck/roll : Swan dive !
Jump + quick turn : Stylish quick turn in the air

Combat :

Draw weapon + duck/roll : Dodge an enemy
Draw weapon + sprint : Charge an enemy
Draw weapon + jump : Stylish jump and shoot

Melee :

Melee + duck/roll : cover (to everything)
Melee + jump : kick an enemy
Melee + action : hit an enemy
Melee + quick turn : thrown an enemy on the ground

Climbing :

We can draw a weapon with one hand and shoot.

Action : Grab
Duck/roll : Drop
Sprint: Climb faster (maybe not very practicable ?)

Jump : Jump higher
Jump + left or fight : Lateral jump
Jump + backward : Jump to the opposite way (or Quick turn and jump ?)

Last edited by Chamayoo; 08-08-17 at 17:25.
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Old 08-08-17, 18:31   #22
Eddie Haskell
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It seems obvious from reading the opening post and the responses that a controller for this type of game/command and control system has yet to be invented. It appears to me that adding a mouse type/style input would solve many of the problems.
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Old 08-08-17, 19:15   #23
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Originally Posted by Kivlov View Post
Just don't see any sense to argue about the keys layout and draw such confusing schemes. The best solution which could ever be here is making the keys remapable for console players, like they are for the PC version. Lack of customization for consoles are the major problem, and not only for TR.
Indeed. Some console games let the player remap the keys and some at least have different pre-sets. I'm not a big fan of having just one control scheme like it's the case in the reboot games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chamayoo View Post
I quite like your control scheme and it inspires me to do some combos.

Sprint + jump : Big jump
Sprint + duck/roll : Slide

Jump + duck/roll : Swan dive !
Jump + quick turn : Stylish quick turn in the air

Combat :

Draw weapon + duck/roll : Dodge an enemy
Draw weapon + sprint : Charge an enemy
Draw weapon + jump : Stylish jump and shoot

Melee :

Melee + duck/roll : cover (to everything)
Melee + jump : kick an enemy
Melee + action : hit an enemy
Melee + quick turn : thrown an enemy on the ground

Climbing :

We can draw a weapon with one hand and shoot.

Action : Grab
Duck/roll : Drop
Sprint: Climb faster (maybe not very practicable ?)

Jump : Jump higher
Jump + left or fight : Lateral jump
Jump + backward : Jump to the opposite way (or Quick turn and jump ?)
That's a good idea, I didn't even think about such button combinations!

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Originally Posted by Eddie Haskell View Post
It seems obvious from reading the opening post and the responses that a controller for this type of game/command and control system has yet to be invented. It appears to me that adding a mouse type/style input would solve many of the problems.
I knew that this topic would get your attention. Well, since there are certain restrictions when it comes to controllers, it just makes the most sense to put often used functions at the top so that the player don't have to let go off the camera controls.

I made two alternative control schemes with the ideas of some of you guys in mind:


I personally prefer the second one.
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Old 08-08-17, 22:00   #24
Chamayoo
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Originally Posted by Wooxman View Post
That's a good idea, I didn't even think about such button combinations!
Thank you ! And I could imagine combinations for swimming or riding a vehicle but not today.

I have an other idea though. I would replace the flare/torch button with a concept I call the "object button". A bit like a quick inventory, we can use the cross key (up and down) for select the object, left and right would be the weapons. Push "X/A" button to use your object.
What kind of objects for instance ? The flare/torch of course, but we could also select the grapple, the grenade/dynamite, the axe and more.
The inventory in the select button still be useful, for temporary or unique objects like keys. Could also be interesting to have little descriptions to them, a map or else.

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Originally Posted by Wooxman View Post
I personally prefer the second one.
I prefer too. I don't think the left click stick for duck/roll is very good idea. IIRC, in TR 2013 it was the button for SI and sometimes I accidentally pushed the button and it was a bit annoying to see the pass illuminated while I wanted to search the way myself.
For sprinting it was alright 'cause Lara would just run quickly, it did not really affect the gameplay. I am not sure for the case of duck/roll and seeing Lara slow down and crawling inadvertently.
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Old 08-08-17, 23:03   #25
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Physics and animation are going to make the best games in the future, but the input methods of today will have to be dropped, because there's a lot of redundancy going on.

For a game to animate smoothly, it will have to interpolate between digital values, because the mindset is to let the character do his own thing. The input is only there to tell the game in which direction we want the character to interact with the world, and for that we need more than a D-pad or WASD, but a circular pad instead. Press the circle on its outer rim, and it will register in 360º with binary input, which is 0 and 1. The game will then calculate the acceleration of the character on its own depending on the input kind (double press to dash, for example) and how long you have been using it.

Games are getting more advanced, and these are not the times when we needed an external input device to tell the game what ranging values had to be used, because they are not being put against the laws of the in game world. In other words, pulling an analog stick lightly or all the way won't give you the impression that you're fighting the terrain, and it only causes a certain delay when telling the character to do it by himself.

Circular pads with binary inputs are the way to go.
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Old 08-08-17, 23:34   #26
Wooxman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chamayoo View Post
Thank you ! And I could imagine combinations for swimming or riding a vehicle but not today.

I have an other idea though. I would replace the flare/torch button with a concept I call the "object button". A bit like a quick inventory, we can use the cross key (up and down) for select the object, left and right would be the weapons. Push "X/A" button to use your object.
What kind of objects for instance ? The flare/torch of course, but we could also select the grapple, the grenade/dynamite, the axe and more.
The inventory in the select button still be useful, for temporary or unique objects like keys. Could also be interesting to have little descriptions to them, a map or else.
Yeah, I thought about that, too. At least making d-pad left and right circling through the weapons and up and down maybe for the flare and medipack. Or similar to GTA V: Holding down one direction of the d-pad brings up the weapon wheel and the other directions could be used for other things.

@l3igl3oss: Do you mean like that thing on the Steam controller?
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Old 08-08-17, 23:45   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wooxman View Post
@l3igl3oss: Do you mean like that thing on the Steam controller?
Yes, but in case you want to make it more than just touch, and give it a mechanical feel, then you can make it a thumbwheel or dial, to rotate on its own axis. Press the outer rim in a direction for movement, rotate the dial for the camera, or keep it held down as you rotate to move in a direction by turning with the camera. Then, on the other thumb, introduce another dial for ABXY input and everything in between, as well as the vertical camera movement, as if it were Etch a Sketch.

Edit: actually, let me rethink this. To have the circular pads rotate on their own axes would be cool for six degrees of freedom in one gamepad, but you don't want to play Etch a Sketch to aim to the corners of the screen There could be a switch to let us rotate the circular pads, so that they count every direction as an input (ideal for fighters), or the rotation to be direction free except for its own axis (ideal for driving games). Then, as an advanced mode, you could press the circular pad, when only the offset (0 to 1) counts as the input direction, so that you are free to rotate it for the extra axis.



This is one step towards it.

Last edited by l3igl3oss; 09-08-17 at 00:56.
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Old 09-08-17, 04:17   #28
JuditePrince12
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Originally Posted by MissJodieG View Post
Those controlls look horrible imo.
I thought the same thing, they should honestly just let you customize how you want to play.
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Old 09-08-17, 11:37   #29
Chamayoo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wooxman View Post
Yeah, I thought about that, too. At least making d-pad left and right circling through the weapons and up and down maybe for the flare and medipack. Or similar to GTA V: Holding down one direction of the d-pad brings up the weapon wheel and the other directions could be used for other things.
The way of GTA V was indeed great and it would free up more space for more buttons ! After all a Tomb Raider game offers a lot of possibilities (in general) and it is normal to have all buttons of the gamepad fulfilled and multiples combinations.

Now about riding a vehicle :

Action : Get on/get out of the vehicle
Duck/Roll : Slow down and reverse
Quick turn : Skid
Sprint : Speed max for a limited time (I guess like the nitro in TR4)
Jump : Lara jumped off the vehicle

Flare/torch : Use the light of the vehicle
Draw weapon : Shoot while riding
Melee : Lara put her head down (to avoid obstacles like branches)
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Old 09-08-17, 13:00   #30
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Why is controlling a camera so important that putting all of the action keys on the awkward shoulders is a good idea?! From my POV, camera control is a safeguard from devs that don't trust their own camera system to do its work properly. It's like they pass to the player what should have been their work. I know that this is not how they think, but I find it weird that people have this fixation on camera controls, it almost seems like a fetish to me.
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