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Old 11-11-17, 01:13   #1211
Mad Tony
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Wales actually voted to leave as well.
No regrets, Mr Freeman.
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Old 11-11-17, 08:25   #1212
Anne Boleyn
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Originally Posted by Mad Tony View Post
Wales actually voted to leave as well.
Indeed it did - Wales seems pretty staunchly UK nationalist. Any solution to the Irish border problem? What were you hoping would happen when you cast your vote?

The Irish Taoiseach stated:

Delegates, we meet tonight less than 4 miles from the border. And it brings home to us the need to ensure that the free movement of people, goods and services on this island is protected. A shared space is not a lost space.

So on this island, letís build bridges, not borders. There can and will not be a return to a border on our island. In my conversations with European presidents and prime ministers I have received considerable support for the challenges we face.

And tonight, I want to reassure all border communities that we are listening to you, we hear your concerns, and we promise you that we will safeguard your rights, and all that we have achieved. I know this wonít be easy, and that all these matters are not entirely under our control.

But remember this: four times in our history we decided as a country to take a different road to the United Kingdom. We did it in 1921, when we became independent and we were the first country to leave the Empire. We did it in 1948, when we became a Republic.

We did it again in 1979 when we broke the link with sterling and floated our own currency. And then we did it again in 2001 when we joined the Euro without Britain.

While there were challenges, on every occasion we overcame them and emerged stronger and more prosperous as a result, and we approach the challenge of Brexit with the same spirit. There may be tough calls and hard decisions ahead. But one thing is certain. Ireland will always remain at the heart of the common European home we helped to build.
Ireland simply can't be forced to accept England's (and Wales') decision, and all that it entails, in the way Scotland and NI can be forced to. Brexiteers must have had some idea about what was to be done with the border.
The King is a hunter. When he has sported he will kill - and I am the prey.
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Old 12-11-17, 09:35   #1213
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The border problem won't be solved anytime soon. It's too complex for the Tories to sweep under the rug. I'm more concerned about getting devolution back up and running for NI

The chances of that actually happening are poor, I think. Why?

1.While Theresa May doesn't want to face the extra burden of Direct Rule, she's shown herself to be largely disinterested in our affairs, having spent only a few hours here. She has a lot of distractions with Brexit, sex scandals and a divided and largely inexperienced cabinet.

2. The DUP keeps on saying No to any proposals for Irish Language Act proposals and Equal Civil Marriage introduction. The former is not what Sinn Fein claims it to be - a full blown Equality matter; rather it's an Equality of Esteem matter with some Equality characteristics, proportionate to Irish language use and value in every day life here. The latter is not resolved yet; while the High court here has ruled that it against, the matter is being appealed and may well end up in our Supreme Court.where European cases may be distinguished, possibly on the basis that the context has shifted.

3. Sinn Fein has been clever, or just plain lucky. If you thought the DUP were clever strategists, they may have found their match in Sinn Fein. Are they relying on the official drip feed from the RHI inquiry which tends to point to incompetence on the part of DUP ministers, principal among them being Mrs Foster? Don't forget that in the main, any Ministers with a part to play in the RHI Scheme were with one more marginal exception, all DUP. We shouldn't underestimate the impact of RHI Inquiry on Sinn Fein not rushing back to government.

4. Direct Rule may serve Sinn Fein better in the short to medium term with the British Government delivering on its promises to enact an Irish Language Act and Equal Marriage being finally delivered. Thus they will have bypassed devolution and the DUP's vetoes and have delivered their election and talks pledges, this all done without reforming Stormont and its institutions (yawn!).

5. Then there is the increasing prospect of the Tories tearing themselves apart, a chance that Sinn Fein might take their seats at Westminster and a general election being called as the Tories skid out of control over Brexit and get snared in the 'barbed wire' of our border issue.

6. Now for the medium term view. As Westminster has shown little interest in this place, Sinn Fein might recognise the strategic value of taking their seats in Westminster as a counterfoil to the DUP's representation.

7. If Labour comes to power, and they will judge when that is within reach, a Labour administration is likely to be more sympathetic to Sinn Fein's demands for a border poll.

In all of this, remember that these manoeuvrings are about power, and often very little about the interests of those voters who put their representatives there. That's a rather wry view of course, but we are used to this over here, are we not?
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