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Old 14-04-17, 03:18   #31
michaeldt
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Oh, thats sad
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Old 18-04-17, 17:46   #32
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Indeed, looks like it's merely a re-run of the earlier editions... with the new Alicia Vikander movie coming out next year I doubt they will ever want to do any sort of remastering on the Angelina Jolie pics.
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Old 18-04-17, 19:58   #33
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Indeed, looks like it's merely a re-run of the earlier editions... with the new Alicia Vikander movie coming out next year I doubt they will ever want to do any sort of remastering on the Angelina Jolie pics.
I think it may or may not happen. In June they are releasing the Mummy reboot with Tom Cruise in cinemas and so to cash in on that they are re-releasing the Brendan Fraser Mummy trilogy on both UHD and Blu-ray in May (the UHD release is key here as it forces a new disc mastering).
So it seems with 'reboots' that companies either take the approach of 'burying' the previous films in order to avoid confusion with the new product or they try to cash in on the reboot buzz by also re-releasing the previous films.

I guess the problem is that the previous TR films were Paramount and not Warner Bros who are doing the reboot film so will they bother and who really holds the distribution rights to those films now anyway?
And will they bother to do a re-release (preferably a UHD release as that would force them to remaster rather than just repress the same discs again).
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Old 19-04-17, 02:31   #34
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I think it may or may not happen. In June they are releasing the Mummy reboot with Tom Cruise in cinemas and so to cash in on that they are re-releasing the Brendan Fraser Mummy trilogy on both UHD and Blu-ray in May (the UHD release is key here as it forces a new disc mastering).
So it seems with 'reboots' that companies either take the approach of 'burying' the previous films in order to avoid confusion with the new product or they try to cash in on the reboot buzz by also re-releasing the previous films.

I guess the problem is that the previous TR films were Paramount and not Warner Bros who are doing the reboot film so will they bother and who really holds the distribution rights to those films now anyway?
And will they bother to do a re-release (preferably a UHD release as that would force them to remaster rather than just repress the same discs again).
And then the problem with a UHD release is that CoL wouldn't be in 4K? They would literally have to go and re-edit the whole film again to produce a 4K master :/
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Old 19-04-17, 07:38   #35
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And then the problem with a UHD release is that CoL wouldn't be in 4K? They would literally have to go and re-edit the whole film again to produce a 4K master :/
With CoL I think they'd likely just upscale it from the 2K master, which seems is currently being done with more than half of all UHD releases anyway.

Since the first TR film was finished on film there is a chance that they'll rescan the master negative to 4K as the process would be less expensive than the work required to create a true 4K master of CoL, but if they already have a 2K master of it then chances are they'll simply go cheap and upscale the first film as well. I hope not though.

But the key thing with a UHD release is that no matter how they go about it they would be forced to go back to the master and create a brand new disc master for the UHD release rather than simply throw the same old 2006 encoded discs at us for all eternity.
So even if they were go really cheap on us and create a subpar UHD release of the first TR film (created from some ancient 2K master) then at least it should look far better than the current 2006 Blu-ray.
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Old 19-04-17, 08:12   #36
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I was under the impression that Warner bought all the rights and that the new 2017 discs would have Warner written all over it and that the whole point of re-releasing them was the Warner buyout of Tomb Raider movie rights. But judging by the disc you got it looks like that's not the case... unless you got sent the wrong one because Amazon is just trying to push out old stock? I wouldn't be surprised... Maybe if this Lara Croft Collection gets released elsewhere later this year we will be able to make a comparison. Otherwise you would just have to browse stores in the USA to see if there's anything different on the shelves.


As far as the 2K Cradle of Life goes, they should be able to just rescan the tapes to get higher quality picture. I believe film editing software works basing on timecode stamps and all editing is done this way, so they would just need to "output" a 4K copy from the tapes according to the timestamps of the final cut. The same with Tomb Raider 1, they should be able to scan only the exact rolls they need for the final cut of the film in 4K.
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Old 19-04-17, 09:23   #37
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I was under the impression that Warner bought all the rights and that the new 2017 discs would have Warner written all over it and that the whole point of re-releasing them was the Warner buyout of Tomb Raider movie rights. But judging by the disc you got it looks like that's not the case... unless you got sent the wrong one because Amazon is just trying to push out old stock? I wouldn't be surprised... Maybe if this Lara Croft Collection gets released elsewhere later this year we will be able to make a comparison. Otherwise you would just have to browse stores in the USA to see if there's anything different on the shelves.
If Warner did indeed buy the rights to the two previous TR films then that would be promising regarding a proper re-release next year, but are you sure that is the case and that it's not merely the rights to make new films they have bought?

As far as getting the wrong discs then yes that was my first thought when I discovered my set was identical to the 2014 set. But when I checked Amazon.com after I recieved my discs it doesn't seem to exist a 2017 set at all(!). And the Amazon link from Blu-ray.com 2017 listing only leads to the 2014 set so I don't know what to believe anymore.
I did specifically pre-order it from Amazon and I did pay $14.98 for it (current price is $9.98) so it seems almost like fraud or false marketing to give the impression it was a new release when in reality it's just the 2014 set all over again (on the cover art it says copyright 2014, not 2017). I don't know.
I don't live in the US so unfortunately I won't be able to browse stores and see if there actually exists a 2017 set, but since the Blu-ray.com 2017 listing links to the 2014 set on Amazon I'm starting to doubt a 2017 set even exists (on the Amazon page it does say: DVD Release Date: March 14, 2017 though.)




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As far as the 2K Cradle of Life goes, they should be able to just rescan the tapes to get higher quality picture. I believe film editing software works basing on timecode stamps and all editing is done this way, so they would just need to "output" a 4K copy from the tapes according to the timestamps of the final cut. The same with Tomb Raider 1, they should be able to scan only the exact rolls they need for the final cut of the film in 4K.
Yes, in theory it should be as simple as rescanning the parts of the 35mm source footage that was actually used in 4K and then replace the 2K with 4K, but in reality I think it is fairly complicated and expensive. There are a lot of CGI and effects work that's been done in 2K. The more advanced CGI they could probably get away with just upscaling, but it's all the small 'invisible' stuff like wire removal, rotoscoping and retouching, basically all of that stuff that's hardly noticeable when watching and that's all been done and composited together in 2K and that will likely need to be redone in 4K that I'm worried about. I doubt that they will spend the resources doing all of that work when they can simply get away with upscaling the 2K master like almost everyone else seems to be doing.

EDIT: For those interested here is an article from CGSociety about the digital effects work on CoL:
http://www.cgsociety.org/index.php/C...cradle_of_life

Even the brand new UHD releases of the last four Harry Potter films are 2K upscales and if Warner Bros can't be bothered to spend the resources involved in rescanning the 35mm source negatives and replacing 2K with 4K for mega successes like the HP films then what hope does a film like CoL have?
With the first Tomb Raider film it should be slightly different as it was actually finished on 35mm film (rather than finished as a 2K digital master like CoL) as it was made just prior to the Digital Intermediate workflow becoming the Hollywood norm. So in that case it should 'only' be a matter of scanning the film master in 4K.

So I think there are bigger chances of getting first TR film in true 4K (if there ever will be a UHD release) as the process should be significantly less expensive than CoL.
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Old 20-04-17, 09:05   #38
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When they release films to cinemas, I believe they are printed back on film. At least they used to be, because now a lot of threatens use digital projectors to show films. So wouldn't COL also have a film master that can be rescanned in 4K? I suppose the theatre copy quality is slightly lower, since it's essentially a secondary copy, but might be enough to produce a better quality transfer for Blu Ray encoding (which should be better too, this time round).

I'm not sure about the movie rights, it's just the impression I was under, that since Warner bought the rights they would also be distributing the first 2 movies from now on, that Paramount passed their rights for distribution on Warner...
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Old 20-04-17, 10:01   #39
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Originally Posted by Dustie View Post
When they release films to cinemas, I believe they are printed back on film. At least they used to be, because now a lot of threatens use digital projectors to show films. So wouldn't COL also have a film master that can be rescanned in 4K? I suppose the theatre copy quality is slightly lower, since it's essentially a secondary copy, but might be enough to produce a better quality transfer for Blu Ray encoding (which should be better too, this time round).
Cinemas use digital projectors nowadays, although it is true that digitally edited films used to be reprinted onto film, to suit different theatres.

Unfortunately, it does nothing to help the situation, as those 35mm theatrical prints of COL would still have been printed from a 2K digital image edit :/.

In fact, scanning a release print would make it look worse, as the quality would have been downgraded slightly after transferring the digital edit to film.

One can dream

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Old 20-04-17, 16:38   #40
Trenton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustie View Post
When they release films to cinemas, I believe they are printed back on film. At least they used to be, because now a lot of threatens use digital projectors to show films. So wouldn't COL also have a film master that can be rescanned in 4K? I suppose the theatre copy quality is slightly lower, since it's essentially a secondary copy, but might be enough to produce a better quality transfer for Blu Ray encoding (which should be better too, this time round).
Like michaeldt said CoL's 35mm prints are printed using the 2K digital master as the source, so the quality of the print isn't better than that source.

The key difference between the first two TR films is that the first TR film was finished in the traditional way by physically cutting and splicing the 35mm raw footage into a 35mm master. This was the normal way to create a master until around 2001-2003 when using a Digital Intermediate quickly became the norm.

CoL had a Digital Intermediate (according to IMDB.com). Basically they scan the 35mm raw footage into 2K digital files and then they never return to those original 35mm rolls, but instead completely finishes everything digitally and then prints that digital master to 35mm film for theatrical release.

I'm basing this on IMDB.com technical specifications info of the two films. Of course that info could be wrong, but since using Digital Intermediate took off around the time between the two TR films it sounds plausible to me.

The only weird thing is that CoL was edited by Michael Kahn and in his collaborations with Steven Spielberg he's known for using traditional film based editing tools. I guess he must have made the move to digital with CoL then.


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I'm not sure about the movie rights, it's just the impression I was under, that since Warner bought the rights they would also be distributing the first 2 movies from now on, that Paramount passed their rights for distribution on Warner...
I'd guess Paramount still holds the rights to the orignal TR films. After all they paid for the production of those films. I assume Warner Bros/GK Films only purchased the rights to create new TR films, but I don't know. I think it would be weird if they paid up to get ownership of the TR 'backcatalogue' of films though. Would be interesting to know for sure who currently owns the rights to these films.



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Nice work!

Let's hope it becomes reality next year.
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