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Old 11-10-17, 13:54   #1
Grimaldi
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Default Some story confusion

I was reminded of a few things I didn't really understand about the plot while watching the Game Statistic's review that I thought I'd ask about here. I'm sorry if the answers are really obvious.

Immortality and the Stormguard

How are they still alive? If they've been around for as long as Himiko's been trapped, why does she have a continued need for vessels? Her Stormguard don't show any signs of decay, yet she couldn't achieve that for herself? Is it her "witchcraft" alone that keeps them alive? Unlike the Deathless and the Divine Source, we don't really get an answer in the game.

More importantly, why are the Stormguard not searching for a vessel? Allegedly her general was the only person to know she required one but she's extremely powerful - couldn't she communicate to her own supernatural army psychically that she needed a new body? If she can take down planes on will alone I don't think that's outside the realms of possibility.

They seem to imply that Himiko does communicate with Mathias, at least his ability to know the names and languages of people who'd washed up doesn't seem natural. If so, the Solarii must be of some use to her in finding the "key" but she already has an immortal, committed group of men who could do it.

It's also worth noting there's a few instances where Himiko kills her own Stormguard (blowing them from the bridge and off the ritual chamber) as if to stop them from stopping the ritual. What?

The fire ritual and vessel requirements

Does anyone know why it was performed? I feel like this should be really obvious but I don't get it. Himiko should know who she wants to be her successor, why the need for theatrics? How does it help confirm suitability when it boils down to Himiko giving a yes or a no like it's Vessel's Got Talent? What are the actual requirements for being a vessel?

Sam says she's a descendant of Himiko but am I alone in thinking "how do you know this?" If it's a case of possessing people in your bloodline, alright, but do we know if Himiko had any offspring or family that didn't die in the fall of Yamatai? Mathias says she's a suitable candidate because she "carries the blood of this land" - is it more of a race thing then? But are you genuinely telling me that in hundreds of years Sam is the first Asian woman to plop on the island?

Either way it seems like something Himiko has no need to prove - she should just know. She's magic. Taking Sam to be burned at the temple instead of straight to the ritual just seems like a waste of time.

On a smaller note, like I mentioned above only the general was privy to the body-hopping but in Hoshi's time the queen is referred to as Himiko. Did each proceeding queen take on the name or is this an error? It's something that might've made the twist a bit less obvious had we heard about all the different queens beforehand.

The dark horrors

Does anyone know what the Chinese Ambassador saw or learned that spooked him so much? His exact words are:
Quote:
Of the other things I have seen… those dark horrors, I can never speak of again.
Lara adds:
Quote:
The ambassador discovered some terrible secret and fled Yamatai. What did he find? And what became of him?
My first thought is he discovered the truth, but how do you "see" it? If he witnessed the ritual it's not visually horrific.

I think that's all for now, sorry for the ramble.
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Old 11-10-17, 15:04   #2
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Good questions. I hadn't thought of that before. But I did wonder why the whole Island is full of World War II bunkers when it is established that every ship and plane that comes near it is crashed. I somehow doubt that the crew of a Japanese military ship that crashed on the rocks just went through with building defenses against American invasion forces who would get crashed there anyway.
The only answer I got is that Crystal D is simply very poor at tying up plot points into a coherent story. From what I heard it is customary in the gaming industry to come up with locations and events first and the story is made up later to tie all of those together. This 'gameplay is king' philosophy has caused so many plot holes and inconsistencies in video games, but Crystal D seems to be especially vulnerable to that. TR Underworld suffered enormously from it.
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Old 11-10-17, 16:26   #3
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Originally Posted by Nigel Cassidy View Post
Good questions. I hadn't thought of that before. But I did wonder why the whole Island is full of World War II bunkers when it is established that every ship and plane that comes near it is crashed. I somehow doubt that the crew of a Japanese military ship that crashed on the rocks just went through with building defenses against American invasion forces who would get crashed there anyway.
The only answer I got is that Crystal D is simply very poor at tying up plot points into a coherent story. From what I heard it is customary in the gaming industry to come up with locations and events first and the story is made up later to tie all of those together. This 'gameplay is king' philosophy has caused so many plot holes and inconsistencies in video games, but Crystal D seems to be especially vulnerable to that. TR Underworld suffered enormously from it.
Bolded for truth. You really can't look very deep into CD's storytelling. They contradict themselves a lot and insert a lot of non-starters that only exist to "look cool" or insert some gameplay.
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Old 11-10-17, 16:59   #4
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Originally Posted by Nigel Cassidy View Post
Good questions. I hadn't thought of that before. But I did wonder why the whole Island is full of World War II bunkers when it is established that every ship and plane that comes near it is crashed. I somehow doubt that the crew of a Japanese military ship that crashed on the rocks just went through with building defenses against American invasion forces who would get crashed there anyway.
The only answer I got is that Crystal D is simply very poor at tying up plot points into a coherent story. From what I heard it is customary in the gaming industry to come up with locations and events first and the story is made up later to tie all of those together. This 'gameplay is king' philosophy has caused so many plot holes and inconsistencies in video games, but Crystal D seems to be especially vulnerable to that. TR Underworld suffered enormously from it.
The game never says directly that all of the ships etc Crash, just that they go missing.
There was not one word in the game of crash on arrival, just that leaving was out of question.
So the chances are high that the ships could arrive relative save...but couldnt leave.
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Old 11-10-17, 17:04   #5
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The game never says directly that all of the ships etc Crash, just that they go missing.
There was not one word in the game of crash on arrival, just that leaving was out of question.
So the chances are high that the ships could arrive relative save...but couldnt leave.
So, you're saying that the Japanese troops and engineer crews happened to land on an Island that nobody has heard of since medieval times, because nobody has returned from it since then, and decided that while they're there, they might as well start to fortify it against an American attack?
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Old 11-10-17, 17:05   #6
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There was not one word in the game of crash on arrival, just that leaving was out of question.
So the chances are high that the ships could arrive relative save...but couldnt leave.
From the sounds of things, the Russians, Mathias and Endurance crew were all attacked by the storm on arrival. The ship wrecks allude to that as well.

Quote:
You really can't look very deep into CD's storytelling. They contradict themselves a lot and insert a lot of non-starters that only exist to "look cool" or insert some gameplay.
I was hoping that wasn't the case.
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Old 11-10-17, 17:38   #7
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Originally Posted by Nigel Cassidy View Post
So, you're saying that the Japanese troops and engineer crews happened to land on an Island that nobody has heard of since medieval times, because nobody has returned from it since then, and decided that while they're there, they might as well start to fortify it against an American attack?
Yes.
Why does that sound so unbelievable?
In the year 2017 there are still islands out there that nobody has ever stepped a foot onto.
In war times, why shouldnt they build bunkers etc in case of an attack?


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Originally Posted by Grimaldi View Post
Immortality and the Stormguard

How are they still alive? If they've been around for as long as Himiko's been trapped, why does she have a continued need for vessels? Her Stormguard don't show any signs of decay, yet she couldn't achieve that for herself? Is it her "witchcraft" alone that keeps them alive? Unlike the Deathless and the Divine Source, we don't really get an answer in the game.
She needs a vessel because the ritual was never completed and she cant escape her body who cant hold all the power without being destroyed so to speak.
Thats why she needs a new body.
The Stormguards are to some extend linked to her therefore they are immortal too but they dont experience the full power she has and their bodys dont rot away this much...or the simple answer is...Magic.XD

When Magic is in the game, its easiest not to ask too deep questions.XD

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More importantly, why are the Stormguard not searching for a vessel? Allegedly her general was the only person to know she required one but she's extremely powerful - couldn't she communicate to her own supernatural army psychically that she needed a new body? If she can take down planes on will alone I don't think that's outside the realms of possibility.

They seem to imply that Himiko does communicate with Mathias, at least his ability to know the names and languages of people who'd washed up doesn't seem natural. If so, the Solarii must be of some use to her in finding the "key" but she already has an immortal, committed group of men who could do it.
That indeed seems to be a bit of a Plothole...i guess the Stormguards are simply the brute force she needs to keep her "body" safe.
Its not like Sam got lured to the island so i dont really get Himikos plan in all that.
Did she simply wait and hope for someone to come to this island?
That makes little sense but it works for the games story.

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It's also worth noting there's a few instances where Himiko kills her own Stormguard (blowing them from the bridge and off the ritual chamber) as if to stop them from stopping the ritual. What?
Casualties...she has a couple of hundreds of samurai.
And it was more like she tried to stop everyone else from stopping the ritual, it just happend to have the samurai in her way.

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Originally Posted by Grimaldi View Post
The fire ritual and vessel requirements

Does anyone know why it was performed? I feel like this should be really obvious but I don't get it. Himiko should know who she wants to be her successor, why the need for theatrics? How does it help confirm suitability when it boils down to Himiko giving a yes or a no like it's Vessel's Got Talent? What are the actual requirements for being a vessel?
Yeah, a bit weird there.

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Originally Posted by Grimaldi View Post
Sam says she's a descendant of Himiko but am I alone in thinking "how do you know this?" If it's a case of possessing people in your bloodline, alright, but do we know if Himiko had any offspring or family that didn't die in the fall of Yamatai? Mathias says she's a suitable candidate because she "carries the blood of this land" - is it more of a race thing then? But are you genuinely telling me that in hundreds of years Sam is the first Asian woman to plop on the island?

Either way it seems like something Himiko has no need to prove - she should just know. She's magic. Taking Sam to be burned at the temple instead of straight to the ritual just seems like a waste of time.
The Game doesnt go deeper there if i remember correctly, i assume Himiko had brothers/sisters, nephews or so...thats how i assume that this whole descendant thing comes into play.
The comics might tell more, but i cant remember.
Everything involving Sam is sloppy done in the game and i couldnt care less to be honest about her.

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Originally Posted by Grimaldi View Post
On a smaller note, like I mentioned above only the general was privy to the body-hopping but in Hoshi's time the queen is referred to as Himiko. Did each proceeding queen take on the name or is this an error? It's something that might've made the twist a bit less obvious had we heard about all the different queens beforehand.
Thats because its always Himiko...i think.
Im not sure anymore at the moment, so much questions about Himiko.XD
I guess nobody really cared about the name, it was more of a title i think...Himiko the Sun Queen.
So the woman that came next was also named Himiko the Sun Queen...but im confused.XD

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The dark horrors

Does anyone know what the Chinese Ambassador saw or learned that spooked him so much? His exact words are:


Lara adds:

My first thought is he discovered the truth, but how do you "see" it? If he witnessed the ritual it's not visually horrific.

I think that's all for now, sorry for the ramble.
Eh, you know Ambassadors...they are always afraid of anything. XD


[QUOTE=Grimaldi;7786902]From the sounds of things, the Russians, Mathias and Endurance crew were all attacked by the storm on arrival. The ship wrecks allude to that as well.

Doesnt mean it was Himiko or so, could be "normal" Storms.
The sea is a rough place.
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Old 11-10-17, 18:26   #8
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Originally Posted by Mani_Man
She needs a vessel because the ritual was never completed and she cant escape her body who cant hold all the power without being destroyed so to speak
I don't think that's it. The problem in the present was that she was trapped in a dead body and her anger manifested in the storms. If she was body-hopping because she channeled so much power it drained whoever she was possessing, I think it would've been mentioned. How could a corpse hold that much power for hundreds of years and not completely wither away if that's the case?

It really seemed to me she chose vessels whenever her current body grew too old, but like I said her Stormguard seem to bypass that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mani_Man
Casualties...she has a couple of hundreds of samurai.
And it was more like she tried to stop everyone else from stopping the ritual, it just happend to have the samurai in her way.
True, what I find confusing though is that they're even in the way. You can hear the Solarii shouting things like "for the sun queen!", "protect the ritual", etc. Why are the Stormguard attacking them? Why does Himiko blow her own soldiers away for Mathias and Sam to reach her when they should be on the same side?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mani_Man
I guess nobody really cared about the name, it was more of a title i think...Himiko the Sun Queen.
Damn. Himiko must be the worst impersonator ever, she doesn't even change her name!

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Originally Posted by Mani_Man
Doesnt mean it was Himiko or so, could be "normal" Storms.
The storms surrounding Yamatai aren't normal. The plane and helicopter Lara summons are clearly taken out of the sky by Himiko, as was the Endurance in the ocean.
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Old 11-10-17, 19:18   #9
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The storm that "came out of nowhere" (Lara's words) around the plane was definitely supernatural. You can here Himiko's words faintly saying "no one leaves" (I think in Japanese). It's highly insinuated that the storm surrounding the helicopter is also Himiko's doing.

There is a lot I like about the story for this game. The ideas are solid, not so much the execution. As you say, so many unanswered questions. Shame really.
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Old 11-10-17, 21:07   #10
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Yes.
Why does that sound so unbelievable?
In the year 2017 there are still islands out there that nobody has ever stepped a foot onto.
In war times, why shouldnt they build bunkers etc in case of an attack?
I'm gonna think way too deep into this than it deserves, but here it goes:
High command doesn't send a fleet with precious troops and building materials to the ocean with orders to just find whatever Island and fortify it. Which meant that they must have known about it. And if they were on their way to another Island and got stranded there they would have informed high command about it, using that perfectly operational radio tower. And they probably wouldn't have started building there. Anyway, it means that the outside world must have known about the Island and it's strange habit of not letting ships and planes leave. It must have been known around the world as a no-go zone. But then, it must have been that anyway, realistically speaking...
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