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Old 29-12-17, 01:49   #21
JACOBryanBURNS
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I share a lot of your questions but other stuff I think you're digging into too pedantically to allow for enjoyment. The question of the ritual and who is an acceptable vessel... it could be very narrow in scope of who is and is not acceptable. That they don't go on to tell us who is and isn't and why and why not isn't a plothole, it's just part of the ancient mystery. It gives you enough information by saying it had to be a particular girl and that it was likely a relative of some kind given that Sam is a "descendant" and also an acceptable vessel.

Also, your projection of her "should know/shouldn't know" capabilities is a little contrived. Simply being shamanistic doesn't give her broad power and having one ability doesn't mean she should or can be capable of another. We can just assume that she's doing all she can with the circumstances she's presented with.

There's a lot of good questions being asked and I love that someone finally took the time to actually make a thread to try and extrapolate the answers, just make sure you're not drilling too, too hard. It's easy to do though, especially because Crystal Dynamics is THA. WORST about setting up intrigue and interesting stuff that they have no intention of ever explaining at all to the player.
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Old 29-12-17, 08:33   #22
Grimaldi
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Originally Posted by JACOBryanBURNS
That they don't go on to tell us who is and isn't and why and why not isn't a plothole, it's just part of the ancient mystery.
That's unsatisfying, personally. I don't think it would've taken away from anything had the requirements been clearer, if anything, I would've been more invested and not as confused.

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Simply being shamanistic doesn't give her broad power and having one ability doesn't mean she should or can be capable of another.
She does have broad power, though. She can body hop, project her voice, extinguish flames, tear planes from the skies, somehow create an immortal army... I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility she could "sense" someone of her bloodline, especially when that's what she does in the fire ceremony anyway.
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Old 29-12-17, 12:33   #23
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I think a lot of the main problem points have been explained in a logical way already which is ironic as it didnít take a lot to make sense of it all yet with all the dialogue and notes in the game CD couldnít keep it coherent which is what let the game down. An odd ad lib here about events or extra note you canít miss would have done the story the world of good.
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Old 30-12-17, 01:06   #24
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I was reminded of a few things I didn't really understand about the plot while watching the Game Statistic's review that I thought I'd ask about here. I'm sorry if the answers are really obvious.

Immortality and the Stormguard

How are they still alive?
I don't think this is ever made clear. The only clue is in a journal from her General who says the Stormguard are sworn to protect her. Perhaps she used magic to physically tie them to her? As for your questions on why the stormguard don't find her new vessel, perhaps that lies in Himiko herself being trapped in her old body. She is trapped, so they are too, on Yamatai. As for communicating to them psychically, maybe she did, but they were so tied to her, they couldn't do more than bring her survivor's of the wrecks she created with her storms. The rituals could have been attempted before Mathias was shipwrecked for all we know. I do think it odd that it took so long to find an adequate vessel.

I don't recall Himiko stopping her Stormguard, only the Oni, which I see as different entities. Again, guesswork, but maybe if she was suitably angered by events, the Oni were collateral damage.

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The fire ritual and vessel requirements

Does anyone know why it was performed? I feel like this should be really obvious but I don't get it. Himiko should know who she wants to be her successor, why the need for theatrics? How does it help confirm suitability when it boils down to Himiko giving a yes or a no like it's Vessel's Got Talent? What are the actual requirements for being a vessel?
During her lifetime/s, I don't think she needed the fire ritual. She selected Hoshi to become one of her priestesses of the Sun, who then quickly became a favourite. It's then that Hoshi suspects she could have been chosen to succeed her, but she has found out what this means, what is required of her. I don' think a young priestess needs to be related to her to become a vessel.

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Sam says she's a descendant of Himiko but am I alone in thinking "how do you know this?" If it's a case of possessing people in your bloodline, alright, but do we know if Himiko had any offspring or family that didn't die in the fall of Yamatai?
I think maybe Sam was told fanciful stories by her grandmother. Himiko was alive hundreds of years before. It's doubtful the Nishamuras would be able to trace their family back that far. Even so, any real blood connection must have been very weak.

I think the fire ritual may have been misinterpreted by Mathias. Or perhaps it was the only way for Himiko to prove her power and to make her choice as she was trapped and no longer able to choose physically in person as it were. It was also a way for Mathias to prove his 'connection'.

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On a smaller note, like I mentioned above only the general was privy to the body-hopping but in Hoshi's time the queen is referred to as Himiko. Did each proceeding queen take on the name or is this an error? It's something that might've made the twist a bit less obvious had we heard about all the different queens beforehand.
I think perhaps the people believed 'Himiko, Sun Queen' was more of a title, and Himiko's rule was so formidable that they accepted the new successors she chose and the title, with each 'new' queen being as formidable as the last (with her subjects being none the wiser it's technically the one and same woman). Eventually, it would have been an ancient tradition honoured almost religiously over the centuries.

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The dark horrors

Does anyone know what the Chinese Ambassador saw or learned that spooked him so much? His exact words are:


Lara adds:


My first thought is he discovered the truth, but how do you "see" it? If he witnessed the ritual it's not visually horrific.

.
I don't know for sure. Maybe it was the Oni and the way they treated anyone who dared come close - those bodies hung up would be quite terrifying. Perhaps he witnessed a ritual himself while he was there? We can only guess, but I can imagine witnessing the complete ritual must have been quite horrifying too.

I know you've had answers, but I wanted to give it a shot too.
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Last edited by Rai; 30-12-17 at 01:11.
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Old 03-01-18, 01:10   #25
VictorXD
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Never realised how many plotholes this game had until now, omg.
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