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Old 05-09-17, 17:49   #11
Yeauxleaux
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I hadn't actually noticed the shallowness of their relationship, but now you point it out, yes. There really is nothing to them as a pairing, considering Sam is almost set up as TReboot's equivalent to Legend's young Amanda (pre-crazy).

With young Amanda in Legend, what little we saw of Lara and her together there was some depth. Banter, teasing, and a real panicked disagreement between them when their colleagues were being killed off. We saw more of a friendship between the two of them in five minutes than we saw between Lara and Sam in a whole game. Sam just came across like a distant work associate, almost a stranger, who Lara just ended up trapped with on an island.
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Old 07-09-17, 14:59   #12
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Listening to "Killing Sam" soundtrack, wondering why they never used that ending and the track, and I've found this thread by accident. Now I'm even more sad that we didn't get to kill her.

Anyway, Sam is, like, the most annoying video game character. I can't see her point in the game, it was supposed to push Lara to "keep moving", but it just didn't feel that way. It felt like: "Oh God, this little brat is in trouble again, more saving *eye roll*".

Like, what's the point in saving her? In the end she's just laying down on that ship. That just showed how weak she was/is, and Lara who got burned/wounded/stabbed/etc. is standing there planning another adventure. I'm done. Just got more frustrated because of Sam.
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Old 07-09-17, 15:40   #13
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... it was supposed to push Lara to "keep moving", but it just didn't feel that way. It felt like: "Oh God, this little brat is in trouble again, more saving *eye roll*".

Like, what's the point in saving her? In the end she's just laying down on that ship. That just showed how weak she was/is, and Lara who got burned/wounded/stabbed/etc. is standing there planning another adventure. I'm done. Just got more frustrated because of Sam.
Oh that made me laugh for some reason, especially the bit in bold.

----

My personal issue is not that Sam got into trouble, it was that her entire purpose was to be a carrot for Lara, the one that made her go into the lion's den.

I would have loved a genuine story of two friends surviving through this terrible ordeal, where I actually felt invested in them as individuals and collectively as friends. But unfortunately the story didn't achieve that for me.

Too many characters, too many entangled "Lara-centric" 1-on-1's playing out between the boat crew and Lara.

It should have been just Roth and Sam and Lara. Everyone else should have been background redshirts whose inner feelings and whatnots were of no concern to us. That way, genuine relationships could have been explored between the major players - Sam, Roth and Lara.

Everyone else should have died and then Roth. Leaving Lara and Sam alone to struggle through this. Meanwhile Sam is captured and Lara has to decide if she is strong enough and brave enough on her own to actually do something about it.

That would have been my preference anyway.
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Old 07-09-17, 17:48   #14
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Oh that made me laugh for some reason, especially the bit in bold.

----

My personal issue is not that Sam got into trouble, it was that her entire purpose was to be a carrot for Lara, the one that made her go into the lion's den.

I would have loved a genuine story of two friends surviving through this terrible ordeal, where I actually felt invested in them as individuals and collectively as friends. But unfortunately the story didn't achieve that for me.

Too many characters, too many entangled "Lara-centric" 1-on-1's playing out between the boat crew and Lara.

It should have been just Roth and Sam and Lara. Everyone else should have been background redshirts whose inner feelings and whatnots were of no concern to us. That way, genuine relationships could have been explored between the major players - Sam, Roth and Lara.

Everyone else should have died and then Roth. Leaving Lara and Sam alone to struggle through this. Meanwhile Sam is captured and Lara has to decide if she is strong enough and brave enough on her own to actually do something about it.

That would have been my preference anyway.
Glad you laughed

And I also agree with everything you said. It should've been that way.
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Old 07-09-17, 20:59   #15
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Completely agree with you, Blackmoor on how things should have panned out. Then, while Lara is overcoming fears and gradually learning to love what she's doing, Sam could be there while captured thinking "sod this, if we get out of this, I'm moving back to my parents' place in America". Then providing Sam lives, in learning her plans, Lara will be secretly hurt, but understanding "it's for the best Sam", then Rise happens with Lara alone (sorry Jonah). And then in Rise, Jacob could have been captured, with the Atlas and Lara is like "I want that Atlas still for mah collection"...goes after it and Jacob gets saved as an after thought. See, nothing really changes.
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Old 08-09-17, 19:01   #16
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You guys would really sacrifice Jonah for Sam? How dare you
Quick, hide Jonah from the Tomb Raider Forum Members and keep the man safe XD

No i agree, to make a character like Sam work like they wanted to...there should have been fewer characters to begin with or characters that are just treated like the NPCs in Rise.
For a damsel in distress to work, she needs to be a focus for the character and in the game...but too often the game focused on others like Jonah for example.
Which put Sam completely in the background and hurt what they tried to build up with Lara and Sam.
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Old 08-09-17, 21:11   #17
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Completely agree with you, Blackmoor on how things should have panned out. Then, while Lara is overcoming fears and gradually learning to love what she's doing, Sam could be there while captured thinking "sod this, if we get out of this, I'm moving back to my parents' place in America". Then providing Sam lives, in learning her plans, Lara will be secretly hurt, but understanding "it's for the best Sam", then Rise happens with Lara alone (sorry Jonah). And then in Rise, Jacob could have been captured, with the Atlas and Lara is like "I want that Atlas still for mah collection"...goes after it and Jacob gets saved as an after thought. See, nothing really changes.
I think if they'd done the story right with Sam in the first one, it might have been nice to catch up with her and her life post-Yamatai in the dlc for Rise. To see how differently she'd been affected by her experiences as opposed to Lara. Especially because she was the one who nearly had their soul transferred.... But, as they didn't do justice to her (I think) in the first game, I'm glad they didn't. But still, I think the ideas they have are good one's, if they were done differently.

And I feel they could probably pick up and "reboot" Sam for the next game easily.... if they do it well.

But yes, in each game someone will always have to be saved. Quick, put that one on everyone's Shadow of the TR Bingo card!
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Old 08-09-17, 22:22   #18
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I think if they'd done the story right with Sam in the first one, it might have been nice to catch up with her and her life post-Yamatai in the dlc for Rise.
Have you red the comics after the 2013 game?
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Old 11-09-17, 20:58   #19
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Actually, I am a bit disappointed that we spent a whole game rescuing her only for her to never show up again. Don't get me wrong I didn't really like her but she could be redeemed if she would set up as a strong partner for Lara. I think she could tag along with Lara and Jonah and make him stay with Jonah when Lara disappears in the wild. I know she got ditched in the comics but those are not really canon, and it could easily be fixed with another comic. I don't really care that much for Sam (and not for the reboot to be honest) but you know after Lara risks her life to save her at least she could support her or something, now the whole conflict and the whole purpose of the game felt pointless.
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Old 14-09-17, 18:34   #20
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Actually, I am a bit disappointed that we spent a whole game rescuing her only for her to never show up again. Don't get me wrong I didn't really like her but she could be redeemed if she would set up as a strong partner for Lara. I think she could tag along with Lara and Jonah and make him stay with Jonah when Lara disappears in the wild. I know she got ditched in the comics but those are not really canon, and it could easily be fixed with another comic. I don't really care that much for Sam (and not for the reboot to be honest) but you know after Lara risks her life to save her at least she could support her or something, now the whole conflict and the whole purpose of the game felt pointless.
** This is the problem, for Sam to become a strong partner for Lara, she would have had a character arc that allows for her to be in that position. In TR'13 she was basically the damsel role, with one short scene where she's among the others escaping the Solarii and she fires wildly and gets in a lucky hit. Nowhere in that game is she shown to be capable, at least to levels in which she could partner Lara in future adventures. I've seen arguments where Sam-fans have pointed out how she escapes the palace by herself despite the Solarii swarming the place, as if this proves her worth as an equal to Lara. This is pure head canon on their part, imo. She escapes due to Lara fighting them at the time. She could have snuck out of there through a back exit or something while the Solarii were distracted with Lara.

The comics did park her- twice, but throughout all the arcs, her personal arc revolved around Himiko's possession. They are canon, she could easily be written back in, but the reason why she didn't come back was, in part, due to the negative response to the continued story around her in the novel and comics. To plop her in a new game now would take some explaining - and considerable time taken up to explain how she's suddenly a capable adventuring partner. At best, I think, they could give her a research role, back home in London.

** I disagree. The TR'13 story served its purpose in that Lara was confronted with an immortal soul for the first time and that during her time on the island, she became stronger, more capable, more confident etc. Sam's kidnaps and subsequent rescues served as plot points only to get her moving and help in making the connection to Himiko. Once saved, Sam is essentially no longer needed for Lara to continue adventuring. Sam was saved, Himiko supposedly destroyed, so ended that plot point. Sam not appearing in Rise doesn't render Lara's previous struggles on Yamatai as moot. Quite a lot of what Lara went through wasn't even down to wanting to save Sam most of the time; Lara was off doing other things and trying to solve the mystery to the island before she finally went to save Sam and even that was partly to stop Mathias and Himiko.
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