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Old 18-01-17, 16:46   #11
AODfan
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Originally Posted by Gancian View Post
I'm not really active in the community anymore but I needed to step in in this wonderful project and put my two cents in it, because this project sounds awesome.
Two of the fixes that I always wanted to make to the original Lara object are:

- Fix Lara's shoulders while she hangs. This have been bugging me since 1999. It's supposedly an easy task as Titak described the process here. (maybe Titak could step in and add more info?)

- Fix Lara's footsteps sounds. There is supposedly a kinda quick fix to that too, I read it somewhere here on these forums but I was not able to find it again. Basically in TR1, to make you hear Lara's steps, core design programmers added the command "Play Sound ID 0 (LARA_FEET) on Land \ Play Sound ID 17 (LARA_WET_FEET) in Water" in each relevant frame of Lara's moving animation. From Tr3 onwards they ADDED the Play Effect "Play step sound on land\water" on the same frames - which has the added value of checking the condition of the floor (snow\grass\sand\whatever) and play the relevant sound instead of Lara's generic footstep. They lazily FORGOT to remove the original "Play Sound ID X" though. That is why you STILL hear Lara's generic footstep even if you customize the texture sound. I tried to remove them all once, but it was a very long process and since I wasn't actually making any level at that moment, it was useless and I kinda got bored and gave up along the way...
The shoulder fix has been added to the list already.
This is actually not a bug, it's supposed to be like that. "Play Step Sound" only plays the sand/gravel/wood/etc. sound effect but it doesn't play the stone and water sound effects. If you remove the stone and water sound effects and only leave "Play Step Sound", Lara's footsteps will be completely silent on stone textures.

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Originally Posted by Titak View Post
Thank you very much for this fixed Lara!

I can't use it myself since my LARA object is very heavily edited, but I'm going through the list to see where I can fix the bugs myself, if I haven't done so already.

Something I've fixed in my own Lara as well are:
  • Added the wading sounds when she is crawling in water.
    Same goes for kneeling down (also simply the wade sound) and getting back up (same sound as when she climbs out of the water) when in water.
  • Added wading sounds to Lara's shimmey animations and climbing animations.
  • Added wading/splash sounds to the drag-bloke animation.
    I came across this one when I had placed a drag-bloke in one-click deep water.
  • Added footsteps effects to the drag-bloke animation.

Another thing I've done is add the swimming sound to her "treading water" animation.
But I used that sound in another slot and assigned a lower volume value to it so it wouldn't sound as loud as when she is swimming on the surface.

I've done many more sound customisations, but other than the ones mentioned above, that's exactly what it is: customisations. Not fixed bugs using already present sounds.


As for the rotating of Lara's hand in her vertical pole animations:
I just checked my old MoA part 1 LARA object to see if I had fixed the bug in that Lara (because I did notice the bug back then), but it turns out I hadn't bothered fixing it in the end.
Thank you, I'll add these to the list!
Maybe I should use .ani files instead? That way people can choose which animations they want to use or copy all of them over at once

Rotating Lara's hand in the pole and door animations should be relatively easy in 3DS Max because you don't have to edit every single frame like you would have to do if you used WADMerger. Fixing the shoulders will take much longer, unfortunately
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Old 18-01-17, 17:00   #12
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You should also add footstep sound on animation 15, 24, 31 and 42
I've added them to my last level (also push, pull and sprint), and I really liked hear sounds working correctly with animations
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Old 18-01-17, 17:55   #13
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Originally Posted by AODfan View Post
Enemies going up or down one click is quite noticeable but adding 4 new animations to each enemy and scripting the whole thing sounds like a lot of work
Did try scripting it yet?
I haven't tried scripting it yet but yes it is a lot of work. For human enemies it's not as hard because I can just create one set of anims for up/down and re-use them, which will be based on Lara's anims.

I might test it at the weekend.
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Old 18-01-17, 21:36   #14
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There are other things that need fixing.
  • When you grab a ledge, Lara's hands are too much in the wall. And when she's shimmying, they're too far from the wall.
    I've corrected this (not the shoulder thing though), and also used this occasion to make a bit more movement to her hands (you can see her take her hand off the ledge a bit better for example), and consequently add a little bit more speed to her animation while keeping her hands at the correct place. Her speed is now 11 while it was 8 before, but it slows down a little at the end. It's just little details, it doesn't change the original look of the animation at all, but it's already something.
    By the way, fixing the shoulders shouldn't be that hard either in 3DS Max... I guess. Well I'm not sure. I could have a look at it.
  • The roll-in-crawlspace animation has a problem: her right arm isn't in the correct position when she starts and when she finishes her roll. I've corrected this by using existing animation parts as references. Even if not all builders use it the animation should be fixed anyway, as it's a patch that makes it play or not anyway.
  • In TR4 there are also lots of animations that have their end missing. It's annoying for the eyes. This should be fixed too, I could do it (I've already done this for some of them) if you want.
  • In animation 414 (jump switch), Lara's hands are turning while she's going down. Which makes as much sense as her hand being turned in the polerope animations.
  • Animation 287 (hanging -> climb up -> crawling) has no sound at all. I think TR5 fixed this so you could use it as a reference.
  • Oh, and adding that TR5 animation for ladders (on the wall -> climb up -> crawling) should be added to the list too! There are several unused animations (mainly the rope ones, but also a climbing animation (395*)) so there's room to add it without adding new animation slots.
    * It's in the middle of other unused rope animations, and it still has the properties and StateID Changes of rope animations. In a beta of TR4, IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, Lara wasn't putting her feet on the wall automatically when she was on a ladder but only when pressing the Up key. I think they had planned to allow us to keep her hanging and choose when she can put her feet on the wall, and ended up scrapping the idea even before implementing it completely.

I actually had the idea of fixing Lara's animations once like you did, but it turned out I didn't have the courage to go through everything.
I'd gladly help for those fixes, but it's early yet (move along ma chčre...), I still have things to do for school and I'll be quite busy for some days.
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Old 18-01-17, 22:47   #15
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Originally Posted by LoreRaider View Post
You should also add footstep sound on animation 15, 24, 31 and 42
I've added them to my last level (also push, pull and sprint), and I really liked hear sounds working correctly with animations
Thank you, I'll add it to the list

Quote:
Originally Posted by disapearing-boy View Post
I haven't tried scripting it yet but yes it is a lot of work. For human enemies it's not as hard because I can just create one set of anims for up/down and re-use them, which will be based on Lara's anims.

I might test it at the weekend.
Alright, let us know if it works

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey79100 View Post
There are other things that need fixing.
  • When you grab a ledge, Lara's hands are too much in the wall. And when she's shimmying, they're too far from the wall.
    I've corrected this (not the shoulder thing though), and also used this occasion to make a bit more movement to her hands (you can see her take her hand off the ledge a bit better for example), and consequently add a little bit more speed to her animation while keeping her hands at the correct place. Her speed is now 11 while it was 8 before, but it slows down a little at the end. It's just little details, it doesn't change the original look of the animation at all, but it's already something.
    By the way, fixing the shoulders shouldn't be that hard either in 3DS Max... I guess. Well I'm not sure. I could have a look at it.
  • The roll-in-crawlspace animation has a problem: her right arm isn't in the correct position when she starts and when she finishes her roll. I've corrected this by using existing animation parts as references. Even if not all builders use it the animation should be fixed anyway, as it's a patch that makes it play or not anyway.
  • In TR4 there are also lots of animations that have their end missing. It's annoying for the eyes. This should be fixed too, I could do it (I've already done this for some of them) if you want.
  • In animation 414 (jump switch), Lara's hands are turning while she's going down. Which makes as much sense as her hand being turned in the polerope animations.
  • Animation 287 (hanging -> climb up -> crawling) has no sound at all. I think TR5 fixed this so you could use it as a reference.
  • Oh, and adding that TR5 animation for ladders (on the wall -> climb up -> crawling) should be added to the list too! There are several unused animations (mainly the rope ones, but also a climbing animation (395*)) so there's room to add it without adding new animation slots.
    * It's in the middle of other unused rope animations, and it still has the properties and StateID Changes of rope animations. In a beta of TR4, IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, Lara wasn't putting her feet on the wall automatically when she was on a ladder but only when pressing the Up key. I think they had planned to allow us to keep her hanging and choose when she can put her feet on the wall, and ended up scrapping the idea even before implementing it completely.

I actually had the idea of fixing Lara's animations once like you did, but it turned out I didn't have the courage to go through everything.
I'd gladly help for those fixes, but it's early yet (move along ma chčre...), I still have things to do for school and I'll be quite busy for some days.
Wow that's a massive list!
I know that the ceiling underwater switch animation and the underwater door animations end too early. I've actually fixed these once before but I forgot to include them. What are the other animations that end too early?

I added the tightrope and swingpole animations since both are possible in TRNG and it's nice to have all the animations ready to use. I can just add ladder to crawlspace animation in one of the empty slots in between but maybe it would be better to replace some of the unused animations instead?

______

I don't have 3DS Max installed right now so if anyone could change Lara's weirdly rotated hands/arms in those animations, that would be great
I don't really want to go through each frame and do it manually in WADMerger
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Old 18-01-17, 22:52   #16
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Really nice project! I wish you the best of luck with it You never realise how many fixes are needed until you look closely. I was playing MoA the other day and noticed that Lara's hand was indeed the wrong way on poleropes.

What about underwater doors where the fact that Lara is always to the side after the animation ends rather than in the middle, if that makes sense?

I'm excited to see more definitive progress!
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Old 19-01-17, 14:51   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AODfan View Post
The shoulder fix has been added to the list already.
Oops. Sorry.
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Originally Posted by AODfan View Post
This is actually not a bug, it's supposed to be like that. "Play Step Sound" only plays the sand/gravel/wood/etc. sound effect but it doesn't play the stone and water sound effects. If you remove the stone and water sound effects and only leave "Play Step Sound", Lara's footsteps will be completely silent on stone textures.
Oh... I didn't notice that when I tried. Well... Maybe I'll do that again for myself when you'll release your wad with all your fixes. I still prefer the cleaner sounds without the general footstep sound in the way, and I can always assign a sound to every texture so that Lara's footsteps will never be muted.
Thank you anyway for explaining that to me.
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Old 19-01-17, 15:22   #18
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If you are hardcore, fix the "Going down backwards from 1 click"-bug.
Lara will always play one of the two existing animations.
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Old 19-01-17, 15:28   #19
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Alright, let us know if it works
Well I've made a different discovery that works -- if you use fractional triggers and place a bridge/trapdoor one click (or half-click) above the ground, Lara will perform her one-click up/down animation in the new boundary for the tile. Custom width steps and footpaths are perfectly plausible.

So you could have a half block wide steps with correct collision instead of one block steps and it works perfectly, no custom animations needed.

The engine only checks for the height change of Lara and not edge detection unlike the climbing animations, so the 1 click animation does not snap to the tile edges. 2click and 3click climbs will always snap Lara to the edge so fractional climbing/shimmying might not be possible.
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Old 19-01-17, 15:38   #20
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Originally Posted by Joey79100 View Post
  • In TR4 there are also lots of animations that have their end missing. It's annoying for the eyes. This should be fixed too, I could do it (I've already done this for some of them) if you want.
Do you have these listed somewhere?
I'm interested in which ones they are.
In a lot fo cases I'm so used to seeing the animations the way they are that I do not even notice sudden endings or other bugs anymore.
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