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Old 16-10-18, 13:01   #16481
Yeauxleaux
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lol so I did a sidequest and ONE dialog option resulted in the death of two NPCs. So far in every quests I managed to avoid any kind of optional death, except this one.

... And the last manual save I have is from last week. I got plenty of gears and loot since then. FML, my OCD is triggered. Might be tempted to redo everything, I'm that annoyed lol.
I think I know the one you mean? I hit that one last night and got the same result. Spoilers...

The one with the two parents in the ampitheatre, and the guy from "The Dagger" cult is trying to make you choose which to kill?

I tried to be all heroic and it got both killed. I'm learning it seems to pay to be a ruthless **** in this game haha, on more than one of these choices trying to do the right thing seems to blow up in your face. I re-loaded another one because I was a diplomatic pussy and it backfired, and I hated the result.
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Old 16-10-18, 16:21   #16482
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No company is perfect:
  • Nintendo has been offering horrible online services for years and in 2018 we still don't have cloud saves.
  • Bethesda's games are riddled with bugs and you can only enjoy the game properly on PC.
  • Naughty Dogs have been stuck with the same linearity and gameplay for 5 games.
  • Dontnod is slowly starting to create pre-order DLCs and other microtransactions.
  • We have yet to see the real scope and scale of Cyberpunk (CD Project Red), but I'm SURE it will come with tons of issues at launch
  • Rockstar spent the last 4 years creating grindy-content on GTA Online to push players toward Shark Cards and you can bet they'll do the same with RDR2 Online.
  • Bioware pretty much screwed Mass Effect, but so did EA.
  • Square Enix isn't supporting Tomb Raider as much as it should (and Shadow, which is also buggy on certain fronts, suffered from that).
  • Ubisoft is guilty of doing too many games and spreading their focus all over the place
Shark cards, pre-order DLC's, DRM, insufficient online support. These are all decisions made above and over the heads of the people working their asses off. It's not that the people making AC are bad at what they do, it's that the people they answer to have their priorities in the wrong place and the games are continuously suffering for it. What should have been a harsh lesson learned from Tomb Raider all those years go has become a norm of the industry. And if the latter have to suffer their feefees being hurt just to show the former that we want something to change then I won't lose sleep.

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People really need to stop seeing things as "black and white". Game studios aren't some evil greedy and lazy corporations who want to steal from you and push bad games on purpose, seriously that's so messed up to even think that customers are an afterthoughts for them. Building a game, an open world even, is hard and come with challenges nobody can even think of. Bugs will happen, so does time constraint placed by investors and release windows. Ubisoft has plenty of titles to handle and release, they cannot allow them to overlap.
https://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming..._msg4_delay/1/
With MGS4, the biggest selling point for the PS3, at a time where Sony needed it on shelves SO bad. They pushed it back 6 months and Sony just had to wait for their trump card another 6 months. And even when you play MGS4 now you can tell where that extra time went.


Games used to have a higher standard before the integration of the internet because once you shipped, that was it. If a game had something embarrassingly wrong with it it was there in the cartridge/disk forever. Unless you recall at a great expense.
Having a "meh that'll do we'll fix it with a day 1 patch, we can't risk missing Q2" decision made is something people actually making the game have no say in.

If the 'realistic constraints' of the modern game industry are not compatible with this older standard and we must change with the times and learn to accept mediocrity as technology moves forward and the industry and investors grown is size then you are going to get people who are bitter as they have to make the unwanted decision of
"do I just allow myself to be bent over and give in or walk away from something that's always been my passion?"
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Old 16-10-18, 18:03   #16483
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^ And this is a problem shared across all studios, so I don't really understand why some of you felt the need to single Ubisoft out on here.

From the last two years alone, Origins, Far Cry 5 and Odyssey had a really smooth release and experience with little to no game breaking bug. Same for Watch_Dogs 2. I don't recall obvious bugs.

At the end of the day, you have a choice to purchase these broken and "mediocre" products you speak of. We're not talking about health care, we're not talking about taxes or a rent. We're talking about a toy that you can purchase or not. You have access to reviews, online ratings, forums, discussions, youtube to make up your mind on what you buy and if what you got is broken and not up to your standards, that's on you. You skipped Rogue (though I don't recall hearing that much about its bugs), so I don't see why you feel the need to be so vocal about it for example. You did good, you had doubts, you avoided it, end of the story. Why some of you need to drag this so much is something I cannot really understand. It's not like 100% releases were all broken and bad, like I said Odyssey was good, Shadow of Tomb Raider was fully playable (on PC), Life is Strange 2 had a flawless release, Red Dead Redemption 2 will surely be polished enough just like any Rockstar games...

I swear some of you sound way more dramatic than the reality deserves to. And it has nothing to do with "accepting mediocrity".

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Games used to have a higher standard before the integration of the internet because once you shipped, that was it. If a game had something embarrassingly wrong with it it was there in the cartridge/disk forever. Unless you recall at a great expense.
And games used to be simpler, more linear, with little to no emergent mechanics, limited rendering techniques, less AI and so on. Complexity and technologies come at the cost of a risk. Maybe I'm weird, but to me it just makes sense that bugs happens in these circumstances. The opposite would be worrying.

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Old 16-10-18, 18:30   #16484
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When a game goes gold that is essentially the version of the game they have sent off to Sony, Microsoft and/or Nintendo? They cannot modify or tweak that version?

So from that time up until release they have to do work, so they work on doing bug fixes and patches that is essentially the day 1 patch?

Looking at it from that perspective surely day 1 patches is a good thing? Especially in the old days when developing games were a lot more simplistic you didn't get that, they just worked on their next project.
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Old 16-10-18, 21:04   #16485
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So from that time up until release they have to do work, so they work on doing bug fixes and patches that is essentially the day 1 patch?

Looking at it from that perspective surely day 1 patches is a good thing? Especially in the old days when developing games were a lot more simplistic you didn't get that, they just worked on their next project.
The point redfox46 implies is that day-1 patches shouldn't even be a thing to begin with. Back then, studios had to release a fully functional and almost bugless product since we didn't have internet for patches. Nowadays, studios rely too much on the accessibility to push fixes, which means they allow certain bugs to be released... So people are buying a faulty product so to speak.

I personally don't see any harm since day-1 patches are a norm these days. Everyone is guilty of it... And this isn't mutually exclusive with a polished product anyway. Even extremely smooth games get patches at some point (including Naughty Dog's games).
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Old 16-10-18, 21:39   #16486
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I do actually think it's a good thing that games can be patched post-release now. Obviously I don't think that gives companies carte blanche to release totally unfinished games that are unplayable, but it's certainly not a bad thing. Imagine if AoD could have had this treatment? It could have been rescued haha
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Old 16-10-18, 21:57   #16487
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I do actually think it's a good thing that games can be patched post-release now. Obviously I don't think that gives companies carte blanche to release totally unfinished games that are unplayable, but it's certainly not a bad thing. Imagine if AoD could have had this treatment? It could have been rescued haha
Yeah... I ponder that possibility quite often. They were trying things ahead of their time, and it could have been saved if it'd been made some years later. How sad.

I don't know though. I think the point Redfox is really making here is that there used to be a certain standard games had to be held to and in some ways it's diminished. I certainly don't get the impression that these major publishers give a damn about the consumer anymore what with all the efforts to suck up as much money as possible with as little effort they can with stuff like loot boxes and such. The more I've played Origins the more I'm seeing the parallels with the business model of popular MMORPGs and it's hard to really ignore it. At least it's not nearly as ridiculous a treadmill but it's still veering kind of dangerously close. Purposefully making things harder than they need to be in order to tempt the player to buy boosters and such from the store is pretty lowly design practice. Especially for a single player game. At least everything so far as I can tell is possible to get by playing the game. Other things like armor/weapon packs are mostly cosmetic.

But the only way they'll stop is if people stop buying into that stuff, and therein lies the crux of the issue.
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Old 16-10-18, 22:04   #16488
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Yeah... I ponder that possibility quite often. They were trying things ahead of their time, and it could have been saved if it'd been made some years later. How sad.

I don't know though. I think the point Redfox is really making here is that there used to be a certain standard games had to be held to and in some ways it's diminished. I certainly don't get the impression that these major publishers give a damn about the consumer anymore what with all the efforts to suck up as much money as possible with as little effort they can with stuff like loot boxes and such. The more I've played Origins the more I'm seeing the parallels with the business model of popular MMORPGs and it's hard to really ignore it. At least it's not nearly as ridiculous a treadmill but it's still veering kind of dangerously close. Purposefully making things harder than they need to be in order to tempt the player to buy boosters and such from the store is pretty lowly design practice. Especially for a single player game. At least everything so far as I can tell is possible to get by playing the game. Other things like armor/weapon packs are mostly cosmetic.

But the only way they'll stop is if people stop buying into that stuff, and therein lies the crux of the issue.


Why I personally refuse to buy into microtransactions, loot boxes or any DLC I personally don't think is worth the price. I will never ever budge, if we ever get to the point where un-avoidable extra costs are ubiquitous in gaming then I will no longer be a gamer, because I simply won't support it. I do get tired of people bitching about "corporate greed" yet and still coughing up the money for it, as though these companies could make this **** work all on their own. (Not aimed at anyone in particular here, I'm speaking generally).

As far as the base game though, I think it's worth it. It has a juicy long campaign, which **** it I've missed in gaming. I feel like it's on its way out again now, but there was a phase in the PS3 era especially where it was like, wtf was up with all those SHORT campaigns? So I'm happy for that, not to mention the immense amount of work they put into these beautiful huge worlds, and the content they pack into them. I'm not the kind of person who is readily impressed by "open world" and not every game needs to have one, but AC really does this well.
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Old 16-10-18, 22:09   #16489
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There is definitely a parallel with MMORPGs when it comes to the virtual store. However, as simply playing the game and doing side quests there and there, I managed to get to level 50 quite easily and never felt the need to get either the Exp boost, extra gold or treasure maps.

It's funny because things like Exp boosters already existed with mods and PC trainers for decades and they were always there as an option for those who favored time vs. experience. It has always come to that: time is money.

I'm not ready to conclude that the game design was affected by this. Usually, virtual store fluffs are handled by an outside team in the marketing department. They look at what can be added to the store without asking too much resources and they push said items. Exp boosters have been a thing since Black Flag afaik and they are an option for those who want it for whatever reasons. When I think about it, some JRPG could definitely use a few Exp boosters accessibility lol. Anyway, I just can't understand how anyone would favor rushing their experience for a few extra bucks but whatever float their boats.

As for cosmetic gears and weapons, these can be acquired with the Olympian Chests: the odds of looting a legendary item (store) increase with "every failure" and you can get up to 10 Orichalcum a day (the chest require 20). There are also 600 orichalcum nodes scattered across the map. So slowly but surely you're almost guaranteed to get store items for free by simply playing the game. Ubisoft will also add more options to obtain Orichalcum in future patches.

In all, I fully understand the concerns and how the store give the impression of a "free to play" MMORPG. But I'm not concerned. Extra money is always welcomed from a studio perspective because it allow to fund new ventures, often simultaneously in multiple studios. The base price of games remained unchanged for two decades, while the production cost keep getting higher to support the expectations, the standards and the demands. It's a mess.

I would have been concerned if the base product was incredibly lackluster and flat, but for 60$, you get almost a 80-100 hours campaign, various different armor and weapon sets + additional free events starting soon with additional new rewards. That they want to seek additional incomes through a store is the least of my problems in these circumstances.

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Old 17-10-18, 05:17   #16490
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So in Origins I keep getting an infinite loading screen after the ship battle "rebuilding the empire" or something or other (Aya on her way to Rome). Apparently it's a known issue or at least there is a post on their forums about it. Haven't seen any definite fix for it... other than restarting a bunch of things and hoping it clears up. Since I'm on PC I'm not really sure what else to do about it but it's rather frustrating.

Just wondering if anyone here has had this issue on PC, and if so, what did you do to fix it?


(oh, also Isaac I do see your point. I do prefer what they've done with AC versus other games. At least AC has hours and hours of content which definitely feels like it's worth the money more than other short campaign games)
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