www.tombraiderforums.com

Go Back   www.tombraiderforums.com > Community Forums > General Chat

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 25-06-18, 07:37   #1
New Dwight
Archaeologist
 
New Dwight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,020
Default How do I overcome internalized homophobia?

Alright so this has been on my mind for the longest. I donít usually do this, or,(ever did this really) Iíll give it a go.
I have already come out to some people but I'm still struggling with internalized homophobia; very much. Also pointing out the people I did come out to never took me seriously. (e.g. still think Iím straight). How do I get past this and is it possible to FULLY get past it?
New Dwight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-06-18, 08:10   #2
dcw123
Relic Hunter
 
dcw123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: England, UK Gender:Male
Posts: 5,958
Default

So from what I understand.. you mean internalized as in, your still coming to terms with it yourself?

And as for people you've told and they've joked about it.. well thats not very grown up is it.
Its actually quite childish.

People have this pre-conception that ALL LGBT people are flaming, rainbow wearing people who mince around etc
This image is thanks to a lot of TV shows still showing a very stereotypical view of LGBT community.

I know couples and people who are gay, but most of the time you would never really guess they were.

But at the end of the day, thats who you are.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with it at all.

Once you love yourself for who you are as a person, it will be miles easier to open up to others.

When I first "came out" I was uber shy about really telling anyone. Now its almost second nature and I don't even think about it.
You'll tend to find that if you are genuinely open and just tell people normally (instead of making a big thing out of it) people will just except it and be like "oh OK cool"

At least thats been my experience anyway...
Wish you the best of luck
dcw123 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25-06-18, 09:04   #3
Mickybyrne20
Archaeologist
 
Mickybyrne20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Greater Manchester. Male.
Posts: 1,724
Default

I've talked about this before as I can feel this way too. The good news is everyday it gets easier to come to terms with.

I try my best to use science as a tool to rationalize my mind when comes to the LGBT community. Like, from a young age feminine men used to really irritate me, and I also include myself in that because as a teen I was always called "gay" or "camp". When you come to realize that this isn't an "act" and they're actually just naturally like this, and that with any conscience effort to change this means they are in fact suppressing their inner self.

Just take it slow and steady. You don't have to rush into loving everything and anything LGBT. Just try and keep and open mind. Years and years of oppression can condition your mind so that anything outside the box of "straight" is repulsive.

Also, this is your journey. If you have issues with the gay community, then you're allowed to air them out. We don't all have to fit a particular mould, and if you're only attracted to a particular type of man, then you don't have to justify your preference.
__________________
"Once again I am being attacked for presenting new ideas" -_-

Last edited by Mickybyrne20; 26-06-18 at 10:37.
Mickybyrne20 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25-06-18, 10:19   #4
Yeauxleaux
Professor
 
Yeauxleaux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3,872
Default

If you're talking about really struggling to come to terms with being gay and accepting that in yourself, then I think the best thing is being around other gay people, or at least finding some kind of role models online or within the media.

I did struggle with it quite a bit growing up I'm happy to admit. I honestly think that's very normal, even for LGBT people who have grown up in quite liberal environments. The environment I was raised in was not "liberal", but it wasn't exactly horrible or "oppressive" either (I can recognise my privilege as a Western-born man who has grown up in a country where it is well accepted generally). However, I found most of my issues were within myself and how I saw myself rather than with others. I just envied "normal" straight people.

My attitude changed when I started doing social media, and I found gay people online who inspired me. I made my first real gay friends online rather than in real life (although I've met them personally since). Some gay vloggers on YouTube really inspired me too, especially one called Qaadir Howard, whose confidence and opinions on things always entertained me and made me think. Sometimes that is what you need, and I will say as well, sometimes you need to see gay people with different lifestyles and opinions rather than just the insanely far-Left dominant narrative we have these days, because that's not always as "liberal" a narrative as it paints itself and it's not one that provides variety of opinion. What Micky said about this I agree completely;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickybyrne20 View Post
Also, this is your journey. If you have issues with the gay community, then you're allowed to air them out. We don't all have to fit a particular mold, and if you're only attracted to a particular type of man, then you don't have to justify your preference.
This is why, while I acknowledge that self-hate issues do exist and that most gay men have them at some point, I am also not a fan of the term "internalised homophobia". It gets thrown around far too liberally (no pun intended) as a shaming tactic, for any LGBT person exuding behaviours that are not extremely liberal enough for the far-Left's liking. I've seen men get this thrown at them just because they disapprove of how sexual Pride is for something that happens publicly, or for acknowledging that LGBT people are a minority and not necessarily "the norm", or for not being all-inclusive and willing to date any type of man, or for simply being "boring" because they're not super invested in the "LGBT community" or the gay scene. This is stupid. None of that is inherently self-hate.

I'll reserve "internalised homophobia" for people like those closeted Republicans, the ones who actively legislate against openly gay people while they sleep around with men behind their wives' backs. That's who is worthy of the term, not simply being openly gay but having a difference of opinion than the collective of the "community".
__________________
So starry-eyed on the flowery hillside breathless and fervid amid the dandelions

Last edited by Yeauxleaux; 25-06-18 at 10:37.
Yeauxleaux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-06-18, 16:47   #5
lance6439
Legend
 
lance6439's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UTOPIA ( ͡į ͜ʖ ͡į )
Posts: 25,646
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcw123 View Post

People have this pre-conception that ALL LGBT people are flaming, rainbow wearing people who mince around etc
This image is thanks to a lot of TV shows still showing a very stereotypical view of LGBT community.
or or or or or

....


because



its exactly those type of people that broke the barriers and actually did something
__________________
Put it in a jar / I thought they were my friends / But they were cannibals
lance6439 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-06-18, 18:14   #6
New Dwight
Archaeologist
 
New Dwight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,020
Default

Thanks guys. I'm glad I opened up here about it.

Right, time for answers....

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcw123 View Post
So from what I understand.. you mean internalized as in, your still coming to terms with it yourself?
Yeah I am. I really do what to accept it, but being in the envoirment I am, I feel trapped to not accept myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcw123 View Post
People have this pre-conception that ALL LGBT people are flaming, rainbow wearing people who mince around etc
Yeah, that isn't me; I'm seen has just a normal, regular guy who happens to be gay. I don't act a certain way that would make people assume that I'm gay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcw123 View Post
Once you love yourself for who you are as a person, it will be miles easier to open up to others.
This is what I hear alot, and always hope for. But

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickybyrne20 View Post
I've talked about this before as I can feel this way too. The good news is everyday it gets easier to come to terms with.
Being in the right environment also helps; which I'm really not in, but can't be helped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickybyrne20 View Post
Just take it slow and steady. You don't have to rush into loving everything and anything LGBT. Just try and keep and open mind. Years and years of oppression can condition your mind so that anything outside the box of "straight" is repulsive.
I difniftyely try to kepe a open mind with everyone I see in community, but it really comes down to who I'm around in what envoirment that usally shapes my perception of things. Always being around people who despise gays and belive it is a sickness no dobut has me thinking twice about myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickybyrne20 View Post
Also, this is your journey. If you have issues with the gay community, then you're allowed to air them out. We don't all have to fit a particular mold, and if you're only attracted to a particular type of man, then you don't have to justify your preference.

I have some issues with he gay community, but I know it's best for me for now to keep it silent; because me saying something with internalized homophobia always comes out wrong and aggressively rude.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeauxleaux View Post
If you're talking about really struggling to come to terms with being gay and accepting that in yourself, then I think the best thing is being around other gay people, or at least finding some kind of role models online or within the media.
I wish I knew more gay people in my area and/or at least some role model in the media. I honestly don't know many gay people at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeauxleaux View Post
However, I found most of my issues were within myself and how I saw myself rather than with others. I just envied "normal" straight people.
Most of my issues with it come from growing up in the heavy religious family; where this has always been something looked down upon. Coming out to my mom and seeing her cry when I tell her his is who I am, and seeing it so ard for her to accept is heart breaking to me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeauxleaux View Post
I've seen men get this thrown at them just because they disapprove of how sexual Pride is for something that happens publicly, or for acknowledging that LGBT people are a minority and not necessarily "the norm", or for not being all-inclusive and willing to date any type of man, or for simply being "boring" because they're not super invested in the "LGBT community" or the gay scene. This is stupid. None of that is inherently self-hate.
Living prove.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeauxleaux View Post
I'll reserve "internalised homophobia" for people like those closeted Republicans, the ones who actively legislate against openly gay people while they sleep around with men behind their wives' backs. That's who is worthy of the term, not simply being openly gay but having a difference of opinion than the collective of the "community".
Nice way of outing those Republicans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lance6439 View Post
its exactly those type of people that broke the barriers and actually did something
Yeah, but does that mean I have to be part of it to be accepted?
New Dwight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-06-18, 18:20   #7
Fantasy
Historian
 
Fantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: England
Posts: 453
Default

You become more comfortable with yourself as you get older, and it starts with learning to accept and love yourself for who you are.
Fantasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-06-18, 20:28   #8
Zreen001
Professor
 
Zreen001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kansas
Posts: 2,517
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Dwight View Post

Yeah I am. I really do what to accept it, but being in the envoirment I am, I feel trapped to not accept myself.
Do what feels comfortable and safe. Online you can do whatever, but in physical locations (like me when I grew up without internet), it's best to find a group of people who share your worldview and can help you without making you feel bad about it (and sometimes that just can't happen depending on where you live). If it's any consolation, university tends to be quite a forgiving place (with social aspects at least) and you can find common ground there much more easily than say primary or secondary schooling (or occupations).

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Dwight View Post
Yeah, that isn't me; I'm seen has just a normal, regular guy who happens to be gay. I don't act a certain way that would make people assume that I'm gay.
Welcome to the club.

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Dwight View Post
This is what I hear alot, and always hope for. But
Being in the right environment also helps; which I'm really not in, but can't be helped.
I difniftyely try to kepe a open mind with everyone I see in community, but it really comes down to who I'm around in what envoirment that usally shapes my perception of things. Always being around people who despise gays and belive it is a sickness no dobut has me thinking twice about myself.
A very large part of how you see yourself and others and the world is experience: how you grew up, what you were exposed to, and what people told you was right or wrong without giving you the chance to decide for yourself. Take my parents for example. Both are on the opposite sides of the political scale (not extremes, both are near moderate but on the other side), and made a decision to tell me and my sibling that we'd have to choose on our own what side (if any) to choose. So I'd apply that reasoning to sexuality as well (but then we get into the debate on whether sexuality is a choice and that's an entirely different discussion).

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Dwight View Post
I have some issues with he gay community, but I know it's best for me for now to keep it silent; because me saying something with internalized homophobia always comes out wrong and aggressively rude.
Hey, I have issues with a lot of the community too (not on TRF, the one here is tame and nice compared to others I've known--as you can see in this thread). There's different kinds of gay people same as there's different kinds of straight people, bi people, trans, and so on-- not all of the same sexuality is going to mesh and that's okay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Dwight View Post
I wish I knew more gay people in my area and/or at least some role model in the media. I honestly don't know many gay people at all.
Yeah, knowing people nearby would certainly help. I lived in a small town and half my friends ended up coming out. To me. Some even liked me, but I wasn't ready for those relationships yet, I just wanted fun friends to play videogames and dnd with (though in hindsight I think I did have some mutual feelings that I just didn't act on because I thought it'd get in the way of other things).

As has been mentioned, there's quite a lot of gay role models in the media, but some seem (personally) shoehorned in or unrepresentative of the majority of gay people I've known. The best gay role model I'd say would have to be a cross between actor John Borrowman and the character Dorian from Dragon Age Inquisition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Dwight View Post
Most of my issues with it come from growing up in the heavy religious family; where this has always been something looked down upon. Coming out to my mom and seeing her cry when I tell her his is who I am, and seeing it so ard for her to accept is heart breaking to me.
Sorry to hear. I was relatively lucky in that my parents didn't mind, and we have some gay people on both sides of the family. The best course of action I'd say is to just wait, comfort her as much as you can, and prove to her that you're still the same person you were before you came out, you've always been you no matter what sexuality she thought you were. Don't bring it out into debate, it's out now so it's better to let it settle. It'll change your dynamic with family for a while, and in some cases it might not go away. Just know that no matter what, you're not alone.


Quote:
Originally Posted by New Dwight View Post
Yeah, but does that mean I have to be part of it to be accepted?
Part of the flamers? No. You can help on the sidelines, bring awareness in other ways, unique ways that you feel best helps whatever cause you want to bring forward. Hell, I've criticized the outlandish Pride parades that tend to happen and get too inappropriate that it actually damages the cause they were going for in the first place (hence why the community at large and I don't see eye to eye). You might not be accepted by the community. I wasn't for a long, long time (still kinda not). Do what you feel makes you comfortable and safe. And try not to burn your bridges along the way unless that bridge brings you harm.

Good luck.
__________________
College Grad studying Film Score and Screenplay. TR Fanatic.
Zreen001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-06-18, 20:52   #9
lance6439
Legend
 
lance6439's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UTOPIA ( ͡į ͜ʖ ͡į )
Posts: 25,646
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Dwight View Post


Yeah, but does that mean I have to be part of it to be accepted?
No. But donít think youíre above them or think theyíre a disgrace to the community like how many gays do now. That sorta mindset is very toxic and plays a huge role in internalized homophobia & misogyny. Iím not good at give advice or anything but Fantasyís post nailed it.
__________________
Put it in a jar / I thought they were my friends / But they were cannibals
lance6439 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-06-18, 23:14   #10
Yeauxleaux
Professor
 
Yeauxleaux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3,872
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcw123 View Post
People have this pre-conception that ALL LGBT people are flaming, rainbow wearing people who mince around etc
This image is thanks to a lot of TV shows still showing a very stereotypical view of LGBT community.
I don't think the issue is necessarily the stereotypical representation. I think it's only a problem if there's only one type of gay man really being shown.

For example, there have been some stereotypical "flaming" gay characters and people I have actually loved in the media. Felix from Orphan Black, Lafayette from True Blood (played by a straight actor, no less, who sadly passed last year), the characters from Ugly Betty, I went through a phase of loving Rupaul's Drag Race as well.

For me it would only be a "problem" if there was no representation for more masculine and quote "normal" gay men to counter-act their image. There's room for different LGBT narratives, basically. I think a lot of people have a binary thinking when it comes to the topic of representation and what's "good" representation, as if there isn't room enough in the media for all different kinds of people, with different lifestyles, views, personalities and backgrounds.

The only time I'm bothered is when something really plays into negative stereotypes of gay men. An example of this is what I commented on in the LGBT group chatroom on this forum a few days ago. I saw a trailer for a movie Call Me By Your Name last year. For what I saw the movie basically revolves around some teenage boy, who apparently had a girlfriend, getting lovestruck by some 20-something man. I hate that narrative. When there is already a stereotype in some conservative circles, that older gay men prey on young boys to "recruit" them, we don't need to be perpetuating that narrative and celebrating pederasty when it appears in the media. Things like that do irk me, and I think gay men perpetuating that narrative is more pervasive than I'd like, when we also have the common fetishisation of near underage-looking twinks going on in the background too (if that's what you like individually then cool I guess, as long as they're not actually underage, but these men should not be the collective standard of beauty promoted among gays).

There are some serious issues with PR that I think pockets of "the gay community" have when it comes to how we're representing ourselves. Sorry but that does matter. We're not straight people, we're a minority and the sad reality is that the actions of a few are always going to be used as a representative of all of us. It should NOT be that way, but that's not changing, so we do have to be careful with what we exude and how we control our image.
__________________
So starry-eyed on the flowery hillside breathless and fervid amid the dandelions

Last edited by Yeauxleaux; 26-06-18 at 00:03.
Yeauxleaux is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 10:31.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.