www.tombraiderforums.com

Go Back   www.tombraiderforums.com > Tomb Raider Series > Future Tomb Raider Games

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 20-03-17, 19:59   #221
Melonie Tomb Raider
Gold Contributor
 
Melonie Tomb Raider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: USA
Posts: 23,938
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KylieDog View Post
Ana said she couldn't do it. Trinity still trusted her and Konstantin after she failed the order. So he would have needed kill himself or else there is a plot hole. Also I recall a scene where Richard does it (heard behind door) and there is no begging like Konstantin said.

None of this matters though as everyone in TR2013 would have thought he disgraced and then killed himself. So all those "You're a Croft" and father talks in the first game are retroactively quite a messed up thing to tell Lara.
Why would he kill himself? There's no motive for him to do it, really. He wasn't ashamed of his research, and he killed himself clear as day where Lara could find him? Doesn't make sense.

Also the camera focuses on the window in the cutscene, implying that someone got out, and on his phone call prior to his death he said (paraphrasing) "Don't threaten me."

We know Ana didn't kill Richard, but that doesn't mean someone from Trinity didn't. I'm pretty convinced that Atlas is a part of Trinity and that he did it, but that much is just a theory of mine.

Richard killing himself just doesn't add up to the story or seem to make sense with the way ROTTR delivered it. Trinity had a reason to kill Richard, because he discovered that they were following him and they couldn't have him expose them. Richard really didn't have a motive to kill himself.
__________________
Hate is a weak emotion.

Last edited by Melonie Tomb Raider; 20-03-17 at 20:02.
Melonie Tomb Raider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-03-17, 20:14   #222
Rai
Moderator
 
Rai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: In a bubble outside the universe
Posts: 28,637
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KylieDog View Post
Ana said she couldn't do it. Trinity still trusted her and Konstantin after she failed the order. So he would have needed kill himself or else there is a plot hole. Also I recall a scene where Richard does it (heard behind door) and there is no begging like Konstantin said.

None of this matters though as everyone in TR2013 would have thought he disgraced and then killed himself. So all those "You're a Croft" and father talks in the first game are retroactively quite a messed up thing to tell Lara.
The only characters who knew Richard are Roth and Grim and as they both speak highly of him, it's actually more likely they didn't believe he was disgraced nor that he commit suicide. The subject was never even brought up anyway in TR'13. It's clear that when Roth tells Lara that she's a Croft, it's meant in a positive way to encourage her to be brave.
__________________
I need a new siggy, but this heat melted my brain so I can't think of anything.
Rai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-03-17, 20:33   #223
Trenton
Tomb Raider
 
Trenton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: St.Francis' Folly Gender: Male
Posts: 18,209
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rai View Post
The only characters who knew Richard are Roth and Grim and as they both speak highly of him, it's actually more likely they didn't believe he was disgraced nor that he commit suicide. The subject was never even brought up anyway in TR'13. It's clear that when Roth tells Lara that she's a Croft, it's meant in a positive way to encourage her to be brave.
But if Lara at that point thought of her own father as the person who had comitted suicided and thus abandoned her wouldn't being ''that kind of Croft'' = being a quitter?

I'm not being completely serious here, but in retrospect, should the Croft name even be something Lara would want to live up to by the time of TR2013?
__________________
Lud's Gate = masterpiece level
Trenton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-03-17, 21:00   #224
Grimaldi
Historian
 
Grimaldi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: On the loch, right.
Posts: 278
Default

I'm of the opinion Richard did kill himself, as I'm inclined to believe Ana and chalk up Konstantin's confession as one last bid for control. The dude has a massive ego and Lara just crushed his destiny, leaving him to die broken. If he can land one last punch to the gut, convincing her to take him out as a villain in the process, he doesn't have to lose everything, and Lara's left shaken.

It's a bit unclear why Trinity would want to silence Richard in the first place. From what I can remember, there's nothing to indicate he was planning to expose them, just that he knew who they were and was taking measures to protect his work. He'd also made himself essentially a laughing stock - who was going to believe him? Was he really that much of a threat compared to Lara, who made much more public claims and could take care of herself, but was kept alive to lead them to the Source, which Richard had been close to cracking the location to via Syria anyway? Surely killing him would just delay their search for years while Ana slowly wasted away?

As for why he did it, I wonder if they could've worked in a reveal that he'd discovered Ana wasn't who she said she was, and all the confidence she'd helped build up in his work, as a father and partner, just came crashing down. As it stands, I think his reputation, combined with his souring relationship with Lara, paranoia and general depressive tendencies (sealing the west wing for years), culiminated in an impulsive act.
Grimaldi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-03-17, 23:07   #225
Melonie Tomb Raider
Gold Contributor
 
Melonie Tomb Raider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: USA
Posts: 23,938
Default

Richard was way too passionate about his research to have killed himself. Even if his personal life was in shambles, he always prioritized his research anyway. I just don't see it possible for someone with such a burning passion to end their life without the answers they care so much about discovering.

Of course I can't speak for all, but suicide is commonly due to either a reaction to extreme distress (loved one dying, for example), or a complete lack of interest for life (nothing to live for - total apathy). Richard had neither of these motivations. If he didn't kill himself over Amelia's death he certainly wouldn't have done so over Ana's Trinity ties. And as stated before, he was way too passionate about his research. Richard certainly was not apathetic in any sense.

Psychologically speaking, there is no motive for Richard to have taken his life. It makes much more sense that it was Trinity. Richard was in the press enough as it is, and him knowing he was being followed by Trinity posed a great risk of them being exposed.
__________________
Hate is a weak emotion.
Melonie Tomb Raider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-03-17, 23:31   #226
larafan25
Legend
 
larafan25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 68,046
Default

#1 Reason why Richard didn't kill himself:

Life is okay. Life is... it's fine. Is it bad!? No! It's fine. It's okay. Anyways. The reboot, so-to-speak, is basically the origin story of the Legend trilogy.

Lara's father was killed in the films. Right? Killed in the Legend Trilogy? Crystal probably just think it's some traditional theme that must be kept.

God bless.
larafan25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-03-17, 23:45   #227
robm_2007
Legend
 
robm_2007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Fruits and vegetables? Sounds like an entire wing of a 1950s insane asylum.
Posts: 32,815
Default

Ana said she couldn't do it - that just confirms that she didn't kill him, but I also thought she said they would just get someone else to do it if she didn't.

I mean, they killed her at the end. She was apart of Trinity and Richard was a loose cannon they needed out of the picture - that's why she was tasked with killing him. She too became a liability, so they killed her, too.
__________________
RIP, Spong. You are very missed!
robm_2007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-03-17, 23:47   #228
Grimaldi
Historian
 
Grimaldi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: On the loch, right.
Posts: 278
Default

I hear you, but his passion was part of the problem, it wasn't healthy. Compare to Lara who shared the same pursuit for knowledge but learned that other things were important enough to destroy the Source. I don't think Richard had the same control over his emotions. We know he prioritised his obsessions over his family, tried to resurrect Amelia, hid her body from her family, sealed an entire wing of the house, lost his temper with critics. I could believe someone so consumed by their drive could act irrationally. I think that's the point they were trying to make by paralleling Lara's obsession with Richard's: there is a line to be drawn somewhere, even if the cost is what you're searching for.

Could Richard have exposed Trinity though? He had no credibility with his critics and was invited to share his work only for it to be openly mocked. From the sounds of things, no one would have taken him seriously, much like Lara's claims about Yamatai.
Grimaldi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-03-17, 23:56   #229
Blackmoor
Tomb Raider
 
Blackmoor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Laniakea
Posts: 11,041
Default

Lara didn't learn it till she was within reach of the source. Maybe he'd have learnt the same lesson at the same moment too...had he got there....
__________________
Something unknown to our understanding is visiting this Earth. Dr Zverev, 1965 ●
Blackmoor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-03-17, 00:12   #230
Melonie Tomb Raider
Gold Contributor
 
Melonie Tomb Raider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: USA
Posts: 23,938
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimaldi View Post
I hear you, but his passion was part of the problem, it wasn't healthy. Compare to Lara who shared the same pursuit for knowledge but learned that other things were important enough to destroy the Source. I don't think Richard had the same control over his emotions. We know he prioritised his obsessions over his family, tried to resurrect Amelia, hid her body from her family, sealed an entire wing of the house, lost his temper with critics. I could believe someone so consumed by their drive could act irrationally. I think that's the point they were trying to make by paralleling Lara's obsession with Richard's: there is a line to be drawn somewhere, even if the cost is what you're searching for.

Could Richard have exposed Trinity though? He had no credibility with his critics and was invited to share his work only for it to be openly mocked. From the sounds of things, no one would have taken him seriously, much like Lara's claims about Yamatai.
idk, it still doesn't make sense to me. When you're THAT passionate about something you live for it. The reason why he sealed an entire wing for himself wasn't out of depression, but because he knew Trinity was following him and it was a private place for him to get lost in his research. Richard had a lot to live for - he cared way too much about his research to end his life without the answers he so desired. Someone with clinical depression will lie in bed all day and have zero motivation to do anything, even the things they love. The fact that Richard maintained his passion and drive is a good indication that he wasn't depressed. He never seemed so.

Could Richard have exposed Trinity? I don't think that was a risk Trinity was willing to take. He knew too much.
__________________
Hate is a weak emotion.
Melonie Tomb Raider is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 15:37.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.