www.tombraiderforums.com

Go Back   www.tombraiderforums.com > Community Forums > Video-Games, Consoles and Related Discussions

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 13-09-18, 13:15   #121
Noble_6
Hobbyist
 
Noble_6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 41
Default

How does the ending feel rushed? you found the culprit, you defeated him in one of the best designed boss fights of this generation (with several lethal and non lethal options available) and things resume to a somewhat normal level. I never understood this complaint. Mankind Divided ends in a similar note to Dragon Age Origins, with a recap of how your choices affected the world...and thats more than enough imo.

And yes, your choices absolutely impact the game in a major way, not just the end game choice but everything leading up to it... its really stellar in that regard because it goes into details that we often might miss, like people we decide to help can be free or imprisoned in the purge. Before the end of the game you have a big choice to make, depending on your alliance not only a major character may die but also affect the outcome of the final mission, on top of that you loose a whole gameplay section depending on your choice.
Noble_6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-09-18, 14:15   #122
MrBear
Relic Hunter
 
MrBear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Århus, Denmark
Posts: 5,854
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble_6 View Post
How does the ending feel rushed? (...)
Oh, it definitely felt rushed. And wasn't there something about them cutting parts of the story in order to work in the microtransactions? I seem to recall that a third game would tie up the new Deus Ex games into a trilogy or some sort, but now it seems that they've dropped it, possibly because of how Mankind Divided was received.

Anyway, I played the game at launch, so the story elements are a little foggy for me now, but I'm pretty sure that the last boss turned out to be kinda fighting the Illuminati or whatever they're called, and there was a sense that even after we take him down, the real enemy is still waiting in the wings. So when Mankind Divided came to a close, it felt pretty unsatisfying and, indeed, rushed. I agree with Domino92 about Human Revolution; it ties together the themes and plot elements from the whole game, while leaving a window open for a bigger story to unfold. Mankind Divided just didn't fulfill the promise - far from it.
__________________
Everybody's got a little wrong in all the right places.
MrBear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-18, 01:43   #123
domino92
Tomb Raider
 
domino92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Somewhere in Canada...
Posts: 10,017
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBear View Post
I agree with Domino92 about Human Revolution; it ties together the themes and plot elements from the whole game, while leaving a window open for a bigger story to unfold. Mankind Divided just didn't fulfill the promise - far from it.
Endings are hard. It's tough because you don't want total finality because then what if your publisher wants you to make a sequel? Look at the first Deus Ex. All endings were fairly definitive and as a result the very premise of the sequel is flawed and vague.
__________________
You will be missed Spong.
domino92 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-18, 13:28   #124
Noble_6
Hobbyist
 
Noble_6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 41
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBear View Post
Oh, it definitely felt rushed. And wasn't there something about them cutting parts of the story in order to work in the microtransactions?
That was just speculation. The whole Micro transaction thing was blown out of proportion and came with a lot of ignorance from people who never played the game. Mandkind Divided is part 2 of a trilogy, its never going to wrap up the Illuminati over-arch, but the story it had was completed.

Quote:
Anyway, I played the game at launch, so the story elements are a little foggy for me now, but I'm pretty sure that the last boss turned out to be kinda fighting the Illuminati or whatever they're called, and there was a sense that even after we take him down, the real enemy is still waiting in the wings. So when Mankind Divided came to a close, it felt pretty unsatisfying and, indeed, rushed. I agree with Domino92 about Human Revolution; it ties together the themes and plot elements from the whole game, while leaving a window open for a bigger story to unfold. Mankind Divided just didn't fulfill the promise - far from it.
You dont fight the Illuminati, you fight the responsible for the bombings that took place earlier in the game and cut off the head of that terrorist cell. The Illuminati are always a shadow in Deus Ex games, maybe in the last game of the trilogy there will be a more direct confrontaton between Adam and them... but that is not what Mankind Divided is about. MD is about exploring the themes of social division, racism and segregation... and for that it needs a more intimate and up close approach which it did very well.

A game that is larger and more complex than its predecessor is not "rushed" in any capacity, it has a beginning, middle and end... Its like saying Mass Effect 2 was rushed because you never fought the reapers, despite completing the overall arch of that game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by domino92 View Post
Endings are hard. It's tough because you don't want total finality because then what if your publisher wants you to make a sequel?
Care to explain where did MD lack finality? What was missing from it? From where i see it, the ending was pretty conclusive. Ive never seen a good argument for the game not being concluded. When HR ended, it left behind more questions than answers, MD didn't have that.

Last edited by Noble_6; 14-09-18 at 13:31.
Noble_6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-18, 21:33   #125
domino92
Tomb Raider
 
domino92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Somewhere in Canada...
Posts: 10,017
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble_6 View Post
You dont fight the Illuminati, you fight the responsible for the bombings that took place earlier in the game and cut off the head of that terrorist cell. The Illuminati are always a shadow in Deus Ex games, maybe in the last game of the trilogy there will be a more direct confrontaton between Adam and them... but that is not what Mankind Divided is about. MD is about exploring the themes of social division, racism and segregation... and for that it needs a more intimate and up close approach which it did very well.
That's precisely my point. In Mankind Divided you learn so much about the Illuminati, their names and faces, and it's so meaningful because it's all starting to come full circle to the original game.

Yes, you take down the terrorists and theoretically stop their bombing, but while that is important it's such a small sliver of the greater plot which is just left hanging. No other Deus Ex game just teeters off and relies on a sequel to finish it's plot like Mankind Divided does.

And then there's Jensen's allegiance. The game asks at several points who's side you are on and you have clear, morally ambiguous choices... but they don't seem to have any consequences. It's clear that wherever those choices led were cut from the final release.

Amazing game, but it just leaves so many questions frustratingly unanswered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble_6 View Post
Care to explain where did MD lack finality? What was missing from it? From where i see it, the ending was pretty conclusive. Ive never seen a good argument for the game not being concluded. When HR ended, it left behind more questions than answers, MD didn't have that.
Considering the devs themselves have said Mankind Divided was hacked into two games, combined with my above response, I think it's clear the game and plot was not finished.
__________________
You will be missed Spong.
domino92 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-09-18, 14:42   #126
Zelda master
Tomb Raider
 
Zelda master's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 17,265
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble_6 View Post
you found the culprit, you defeated him in one of the best designed boss fights of this generation (with several lethal and non lethal options available) and things resume to a somewhat normal level.
One of the best designed bosses, really? I just his behind a corner, threw a EMP on the ground and knocked him out in less than 30 seconds. The guy was one of the absolute worst aspects of the game. It was hilariously easy and pathetic, and I didn't even augment everything to max.
__________________
Next year this time when I'm playing it (Bayonetta3) on Xbone-Mr GaGa–eventually
Zelda master is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-09-18, 21:33   #127
DragonSlayer
Professor
 
DragonSlayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: USG Ishimura
Posts: 4,246
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zelda master View Post
One of the best designed bosses, really? I just his behind a corner, threw a EMP on the ground and knocked him out in less than 30 seconds. The guy was one of the absolute worst aspects of the game. It was hilariously easy and pathetic, and I didn't even augment everything to max.
I agree with you I too thought it was a poorly designed boss fight that should have been better designed there was no challenge in that boss fight, I just his behind cover and used the kill switch on Marchenko, I know that the Human Revolution boss fights were criticised by some at least with those boss fights you could attack your enemy, no hiding behind cover with a James Bond style gadget that kills the bad guy for you.

Hopefully with the next game there will be no interference from the games publisher or whatever higher-up interfering bigwig decided that Mankind Divided needed a multiplayer mode that will hopefully not result in the next Deus Ex game having an unnecessary tacked on multiplayer mode that no-one asked for or wanted except the aforementioned bigwigs.

As I said on page 12 not every game needs multiplayer for example Dead Space 2 and Bioshock 2 or co-op like Dead Space 3, Fallout 4 narrowly avoided having multiplayer unnecessarily shoehorned in, the only game with great multiplayer is The Last Of Us that games multiplayer didn't feel shoehorned in and it's one of the very few games I've played that has a multiplayer mode that I want to play instead of feeling like I have to play which is what I felt with Mankind Divided.

The only part of Mankind Divided that I liked was breaking into the Palisade, it was like breaking into Tai Yong Medical all over again and it was the only part of the game that made me feel like I was playing a Deus Ex game.

The Devs need to look back to Human Revolution as a reminder as to how to make a really good Deus Ex game, at least they didn't outright ruin the sequel by copying a lot of stuff from another game which would have really ruined the game.

Does anyone remember Insomniac ditching everything that was good about Resistance Fall of Man for its sequel Resistance 2 they basically copied Call of Duty and Predator, only 2 weapons limited health, invisible Chimera and unnecessary tacked on multiplayer, they learned their lesson for Resistance 3 and ditched all the they put in R2.

Resistance Fall of Man was most definitely not Call of Duty with aliens so why the Devs felt the need to make R2 Call of Duty with aliens is a mystery, at least they learned their lesson for R3 and reinstated what they cut from R2 like the weapon wheel and a really good story and ditched the multiplayer.

If you make changes to a game that make it very different from its predecessor like having multiplayer where it's not needed or making a half baked game then you risk people not buying future installments if you include stuff that adds nothing to the game like multiplayer or if you make a game that is nowhere near as good as the game that came before it.

I did try the multiplayer a few times but felt that it was nothing special and just wasn't fun to play.
DragonSlayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-09-18, 11:30   #128
matrix54
Tomb Raider
 
matrix54's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: N/A
Posts: 19,690
Default

Human Revolution bosses were no better. I would just typhoon them a few times and get on with my life.
__________________
Check out "Checkout: Journey to Employee of the Month!"
matrix54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-09-18, 19:28   #129
DragonSlayer
Professor
 
DragonSlayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: USG Ishimura
Posts: 4,246
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix54 View Post
Human Revolution bosses were no better. I would just typhoon them a few times and get on with my life.
They are still better than the anticlimactic fight with Marchenko.

There was this long buildup to the fight with Marchenko, save the hostages first which takes a while and that's if the security guards don't get spooked and kill the hostages and then rushing to Marchenko to stop him from detonating the explosives on the two towers across from the building Adam was in, if I recall correctly those two towers were for residential purposes.

Anyway whichever way you did it save the hostages and stop Marchenko or do just one of the two objectives, the aftermath of the non-fight with Marchenko if you have the kill switch was anticlimactic, whichever way you choose to fight Marchenko it just feels anticlimactic.
DragonSlayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-09-18, 21:37   #130
Noble_6
Hobbyist
 
Noble_6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 41
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by domino92 View Post
That's precisely my point. In Mankind Divided you learn so much about the Illuminati, their names and faces, and it's so meaningful because it's all starting to come full circle to the original game.
The Illuminati was never as focus of this game, its pretty clear its about social segregation, racism and of course the terminal bombing. There was 1 (?) scene about them, and a hint at the end... and that was it. If thats enough for you to feel there is something missing then i dont know what to tell you...dont ever play a Metal Gear Solid game... or any second game of a trilogy for that matter because obviously having topics being hinted at is something you can't handle

Quote:
And then there's Jensen's allegiance. The game asks at several points who's side you are on and you have clear, morally ambiguous choices... but they don't seem to have any consequences. It's clear that wherever those choices led were cut from the final release.
The choices were there, if you read about the multiple outcomes you have you'd realize that. You loose an entire mission both ways, and you can have people die on you as well. Not sure what else you would want.

Quote:
Amazing game, but it just leaves so many questions frustratingly unanswered. Considering the devs themselves have said Mankind Divided was hacked into two games, combined with my above response, I think it's clear the game and plot was not finished.
From your reasoning above it seems like you are stretching to get to that conclusion. What questions did you have left? i had none once the game was over, and i beat the game twice trying out different options.

thank you for taking the time to answer me, i appreciate it.
Noble_6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 19:39.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.