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Old 19-07-14, 09:37   #21
HeinzFritz
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Jack, I continued this morning testing your Launcher.
Here are some more observations:
First of all the re-spawned Laras are mirrored perfectly, even with multiple re-spawned Laras and multiple mirrors set in the same room along multiple axes.
The result is a spectacular room full of Laras. Great!
But so far (in my case at least) only the pistols, revolver and uzi animations work flawless. Unfortunately pressing the action key when the flare is used freezes the game.
Unfortunately, also the meshswap works for Lara, but does not work for the re-spawns (at least not with the custom TREP Flipeffect). Other TREP effects are so far not affected in any way by your Launcher.
I must say that from my point of view, the multiplication of Lara's is an incredible and unexpected innovation which has more potential than anything presented so far. If you managed to achieve this, then another limit (enemies with skin joints) should also be possible to accomplish, also the 2x11 vertex limit for joints.
I know that this is just a prototype and that all flaws will be sorted out during further development, so my advice would be not to waste your time re-inventing the already made modifications (like a weather patch which works without any problems with TREP) or the scripts which also work quite fine, but to continue where the so far made modifications end.
I know that TRNG does not allow any meddling with it (it was programmed with that purpose in mind, at least Paolo, its creator, says so) but TREP does not corrupt the exe in any way so I suggest you take a TREP patched exe as a starting point.
I am sure that Lwmte, who programmed TREP can help you with advice how to overcome eventual problems that could arise and / or you can find on his site all documentation and tutorials needed.
Anyway, I am fascinated with your work so far. Keep it up!

P.S. It is a better idea to put every new patch into a separate dll (as you suggested), than to have them all in one. That way the user can choose what he needs and can avoid eventual conflicts.

Last edited by HeinzFritz; 19-07-14 at 12:20.
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Old 19-07-14, 13:15   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lwmte View Post
Well, Lara object always had a lot of globals and unique variables specified, so I think you need to copy them all to function properly. On the other hand, for multiplayer purposes, you only need to update animations, collisions and render it. And I'm not speaking about how you plan to rule out possible complications with Laras firing at each other!

The flipeffect thread is somewhat obsolete, EFFECTS.TXT from the leak perfectly describes the purpose of them all.

Considering TRNG vs. (anything else being developed) - well, TRNG really has a long history, and mostly it derives many features from vanilla TR4 engine - like script syntax, trigger and item manipulation, etc. That's the thing which limits it. But saying that your mods soon will make it obsolete is at least disrespectful to people who put a lot of effort into it. First do, then say.

Surely, building a mod upon Lua/Squirrel etc. gives you much more possibilities, as it was demonstrated by Lua-based T4Mod. The thing is, you are limited by the engine itself in the end. There are many things and limits in the engine which are abundant and absurd by today's standards, and you should also consider it, and make a decision does it worth a try at all. I decided it does not.

And, about working alone. There are lots of people who can help you out there, because many things were already researched, discovered and documented (as with this example with flipeffects). Many people also have programming skills and can contribute to the code. Working together is just better because your chance to invent a wheel once again is much less.
Also all the Lara's I spawn I control. Their coop buddies they can stand still if you want?

And the flare bug was mentioned I'm looking into it but it's not high priority currently. Could be any reason the crash.

Pretty much all the limits are patch able in some way. The dx9 hook is harder than I thought but once complete it should open even more possibilities with shaders.

When I say dodgy I mean it like I tried TRNG and if you simply drag the window the wrong way or whatever you need to reinstall the entire level editor but yet winroomedit or tomb4 do not have this issue present.

I have hacked other games like gta etc and so far tomb4 has been far easier. I'm considering adding support for tomb raider chronicles for all patches.

Of course I may open source the plugins and release an SDK for people to develop custom hack plugins.

I don't mean to be so disrespectful but modifying tomb4.exe does have a lot of limitations compared to c++ code injection.

The fixing of using dx9 also fixes the horrible flickering tomb4 does at startup.

Although windows 8 fixes that anyway...

The tomb4.exe from the times demo also contains some limits with larger values and it's far more stable than the editor exe. #TheMoreYouKnow

In regards to TRNG it's installer looks like it's designed for windows 3.1. From which it says disable uac etc and that vb bad on windows 7 ugh what the hell? And it doesn't even work on my PC the newest one anyway

Edit:

When you said "script syntax" Lwmte TRNG doesn't use any script syntax thats from the original TR. Thats their own language (except yes script.txt for script.dat)

I can't believe it uses VB5 though

Last edited by jack9267_; 19-07-14 at 13:47.
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Old 19-07-14, 13:22   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeinzFritz View Post
Jack, I continued this morning testing your Launcher.
Here are some more observations:
First of all the re-spawned Laras are mirrored perfectly, even with multiple re-spawned Laras and multiple mirrors set in the same room along multiple axes.
The result is a spectacular room full of Laras. Great!
But so far (in my case at least) only the pistols, revolver and uzi animations work flawless. Unfortunately pressing the action key when the flare is used freezes the game.
Unfortunately, also the meshswap works for Lara, but does not work for the re-spawns (at least not with the custom TREP Flipeffect). Other TREP effects are so far not affected in any way by your Launcher.
I must say that from my point of view, the multiplication of Lara's is an incredible and unexpected innovation which has more potential than anything presented so far. If you managed to achieve this, then another limit (enemies with skin joints) should also be possible to accomplish, also the 2x11 vertex limit for joints.
I know that this is just a prototype and that all flaws will be sorted out during further development, so my advice would be not to waste your time re-inventing the already made modifications (like a weather patch which works without any problems with TREP) or the scripts which also work quite fine, but to continue where the so far made modifications end.
I know that TRNG does not allow any meddling with it (it was programmed with that purpose in mind, at least Paolo, its creator, says so) but TREP does not corrupt the exe in any way so I suggest you take a TREP patched exe as a starting point.
I am sure that Lwmte, who programmed TREP can help you with advice how to overcome eventual problems that could arise and / or you can find on his site all documentation and tutorials needed.
Anyway, I am fascinated with your work so far. Keep it up!

P.S. It is a better idea to put every new patch into a separate dll (as you suggested), than to have them all in one. That way the user can choose what he needs and can avoid eventual conflicts.
I added support for the mirroring specifically
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Old 19-07-14, 15:12   #24
Joey79100
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Quote:
I don't mean to be so disrespectful but modifying tomb4.exe does have a lot of limitations compared to c++ code injection.
C++ code injections are maybe more powerful, but TRNG is actually easy to understand as a big part of the people here won't learn C++ just for TRLE/TRNG. Maybe C++ is more recent, more developped, maybe it's much less limited. But the fact that TRNG, FLEP, TREP, DXTRE or any program made for Tomb Raider level editing have their own level editing and scripting methods is something people like and makes the Tomb Raider level editing something unique. And there are even people who don't make Tomb Raider games, sometimes Lara is not is their levels, but they come here and use these tools because it's easy to work with it.

Quote:
I tried TRNG and if you simply drag the window the wrong way or whatever you need to reinstall the entire level
There have been a lot of efforts from Paolone to make TRNG, and he hasn't even finished. There have been a lot of efforts from Lwmte to make TREP and also FLEP. Same for Turbo Pascal, Michiel, Sapper, Meta2tr, and many others...
But this sounds disrespectful actually, you're treating TRNG as it was buggy and always crashing by using a fake example you invented... It's the same when you're saying that TREP, FLEP and TRNG corrupts the tomb4.exe binary. Maybe, I don't know, but at least it works and let us make amazing things we couldn't do before. It has some bugs, like every other program, but at least it works very well.
So the fact that you don't like the way these tools are made is a thing. But you have to keep it as your own opinion and not make them look like they were only some ****. It's almost like if you were telling the authors that they were only dumbasses who don't know nothing and you were the best just because you're using a more advanced programming language than them.
If you say you're not wanting to sound disrespectful, then don't act this way.


Well, other than that, what you've done with multiple Lara is very impressive. I really like the fact that you can do everything with them as they respond to what you're typing. You can make one of them pick up something while you're climbing a wall. You can make one go and switch a lever while you're just waiting in front of a wall. And the rolling ball will fall on her and make her die.
When you're using the lasersight (maybe the binoculars too, I haven't tested), they all disappear. But they reappear when you don't use it anyway. ^^
But what's your purpose with this launcher actually? You have a specific goal or you're justing testing and adding features?
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Old 19-07-14, 15:19   #25
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Quote:
I don't mean to be so disrespectful but modifying tomb4.exe does have a lot of limitations compared to c++ code injection.
C++ code injections are maybe more powerful, but TRNG is actually easy to understand as a big part of the people here won't learn C++ just for TRLE/TRNG. Maybe C++ is more recent, more developped, maybe it's much less limited. But the fact that TRNG, FLEP, TREP, DXTRE or any program made for Tomb Raider level editing have their own level editing and scripting methods is something people like and makes the Tomb Raider level editing something unique. And there are even people who don't make Tomb Raider games, sometimes Lara is not is their levels, but they come here and use these tools because it's easy to work with it.

Quote:
I tried TRNG and if you simply drag the window the wrong way or whatever you need to reinstall the entire level
There have been a lot of efforts from Paolone to make TRNG, and he hasn't even finished. There have been a lot of efforts from Lwmte to make TREP and also FLEP. Same for Turbo Pascal, Michiel, Sapper, Meta2tr, and many others...
But this sounds disrespectful actually, you're treating TRNG as it was buggy and always crashing by using a fake example you invented... It's the same when you're saying that TREP, FLEP and TRNG corrupts the tomb4.exe binary. Maybe, I don't know, but at least it works and let us make amazing things we couldn't do before. It has some bugs, like every other program, but at least it works very well.
So the fact that you don't like the way these tools are made is a thing. But you have to keep it as your own opinion and not make them look like they were only some ****. It's almost like if you were telling the authors that they were only dumbasses who don't know nothing and you were the best just because you're using a more advanced programming language than them.
If you say you're not wanting to sound disrespectful, then don't act this way.

------------------------

Well, other than that, what you've done with multiple Lara is very impressive. I really like the fact that you can do everything with them as they respond to what you're typing. You can make one of them pick up something while you're climbing a wall. You can make one go and switch a lever while you're just waiting in front of a wall. And the rolling ball will fall on her and make her die.
When you're using the lasersight (maybe the binoculars too, I haven't tested), they all disappear. But they reappear when you don't use it anyway.
But what's your purpose with this launcher actually? You have a goal or you're justing testing and adding features?
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Old 19-07-14, 15:48   #26
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I didn't make up an example to make the tool sound dodgy.

I tell things as they are...

Most the modding tools available people have made are written in vb5 which depends on so many ocx files.

My multiple Lara's now got collision and I made oppsie when spawning items which broke the flare. It's now fixed.

With custom controls these players can be used for cinematics and online multiplayer the possibilities are endless

Through compared to TRNG TREP is far more stable when I test. I assume Lwmte made TREP?

Last edited by jack9267_; 19-07-14 at 15:51.
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Old 19-07-14, 17:45   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jack9267_ View Post
My multiple Lara's now got collision and I made oppsie when spawning items which broke the flare. It's now fixed.
Great! I hope you will make it available for download soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jack9267_ View Post
I assume Lwmte made TREP?
Yes, he did. Here is the link to his web page:

http://trep.trlevel.de/en/
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Old 20-07-14, 05:22   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeinzFritz View Post
Great! I hope you will make it available for download soon.



Yes, he did. Here is the link to his web page:

http://trep.trlevel.de/en/
Updated, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...cherRelease.7z ignore any warnings

Edit:

Spawn multiple laras using the I key, i changed as it interfered with DOZY
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Old 20-07-14, 07:08   #29
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What is about mouse support? Is it possible to implement?
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Old 20-07-14, 10:05   #30
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Jack, I just downloaded and tried out your new version of the Launcher. The collision is present indeed, but the re-spawned Laras just stand and I can not control them in any way, no matter what buttons I try.
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