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Old 30-07-17, 19:43   #11
ANoDE
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Yep, and she pretty much stays that way until the end. I don't really mind the QTEs - although I agree a cinematic would have done just fine. What bugs me most is the ridiculous amount of enemies thrown towards you in the sections towards the end. It gets frustrating after a while. Mostly because that's not what Tomb Raider should be about. But I digress.
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Old 31-07-17, 13:14   #12
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It feels ridiculous because it's a lie. There's no way a single girl makes it out of those situations. The opening to Shantytown: you're pinned with no cover and there's like ten guys with a bead on you and can't miss grenade throwing arms.

No one gets out of that except through the "magic" of video games, and when the "magic" of video games is that obvious, it's a lie. It stops being fun.

I tried playing Shantytown a couple of different ways that made "sense" for a lone person to play, but CD programmed the game so you can only play the game in a toe to toe firefight.
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Old 31-07-17, 14:23   #13
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It feels ridiculous because it's a lie. There's no way a single girl makes it out of those situations. The opening to Shantytown: you're pinned with no cover and there's like ten guys with a bead on you and can't miss grenade throwing arms.

No one gets out of that except through the "magic" of video games, and when the "magic" of video games is that obvious, it's a lie. It stops being fun.

I tried playing Shantytown a couple of different ways that made "sense" for a lone person to play, but CD programmed the game so you can only play the game in a toe to toe firefight.
Who cares about that?
If you do you are in minority.
I want to play a video game not a reality simulator.
If you wanna talk about situations were a single girl (or boy) would not make it out well then Lara should have been dead in the Scavenger Den.
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Old 31-07-17, 15:11   #14
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Who cares about that?
If you do you are in minority.
There is absolutely no problem with one person mowing down hundreds of enemies with ease. Only, such games are generally called fantasy.

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I want to play a video game not a reality simulator.
There is a difference between realism and believability you know. Believability is being consistent with your universe rules, even if they might not be realistic. When a character talks like a human, walks like a human and bleeds like a human, it is generally expected that she'll by and large behave like a human in any other situation. On the other hand, if a character is an immortal god, I wouldn't expect him to die like an ordinary human in ordinary conditions. "Reality' doesn't enter the equation, it's being consistent with the rules you've set out.

Anyway, since you want to play a videogame and not a 'reality simulator' would it be okay by you if Lara sprouts wings in the next game and sings lullabies while shooting ice arrows from her butt?

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If you wanna talk about situations were a single girl (or boy) would not make it out well then Lara should have been dead in the Scavenger Den.
Exactly. See? Now you're understanding.

For the record: I adore the reboot, but my adoration doesn't blind me to its obvious flaws. Just clarifying so that I'm not classed as a 'hater'.
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Old 31-07-17, 16:01   #15
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There is absolutely no problem with one person mowing down hundreds of enemies with ease. Only, such games are generally called fantasy.



There is a difference between realism and believability you know. Believability is being consistent with your universe rules, even if they might not be realistic. When a character talks like a human, walks like a human and bleeds like a human, it is generally expected that she'll by and large behave like a human in any other situation. On the other hand, if a character is an immortal god, I wouldn't expect him to die like an ordinary human in ordinary conditions. "Reality' doesn't enter the equation, it's being consistent with the rules you've set out.

Anyway, since you want to play a videogame and not a 'reality simulator' would it be okay by you if Lara sprouts wings in the next game and sings lullabies while shooting ice arrows from her butt?



Exactly. See? Now you're understanding.

For the record: I adore the reboot, but my adoration doesn't blind me to its obvious flaws. Just clarifying so that I'm not classed as a 'hater'.
1 Lara Croft shooting ice arrows from butt... you are exagerating and you know it
2 Ofcourse no one believes that Lara, a normal girl could do and survive all that **** on the island so this has nothing to do with believability. But some of us have learned not to care about that as long as it does not become too ridiculous like shooting ice arrows from butt.
3 The game is consistent with the rules is setting . Cause from Scavenger Den they set the rule that Lara Croft a normal girl is going to make it out alive from situations she shouldn't. I do not understand why some players expected something else?

Last edited by Costel; 31-07-17 at 16:10.
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Old 31-07-17, 17:18   #16
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1 Lara Croft shooting ice arrows from butt... you are exagerating and you know it
Of course I am. Point is, since you don't care for 'realism', would you accept a hypothetical Lara like this?

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2 Ofcourse no one believes that Lara, a normal girl could do and survive all that **** on the island so this has nothing to do with believability. But some of us have learned not to care about that as long as it does not become too ridiculous like shooting ice arrows from butt.
But why would my proposed ice butt arrows scenario be 'too ridiculous'? This isn't a reality simulator as you said, so anything goes am I right?

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3 The game is consistent with the rules is setting . Cause from Scavenger Den they set the rule that Lara Croft a normal girl is going to make it out alive from situations she shouldn't. I do not understand why some players expected something else?
Because the way she talks, looks and bleeds like an actual human being? Because this isn't a fantasy game? Plenty of reasons.
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Old 31-07-17, 17:54   #17
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Because the way she talks, looks and bleeds like an actual human being? Because this isn't a fantasy game? Plenty of reasons.
So since " this isn't a fantasy game" I guess you are not ok with:
The spirit of an ancient queen trapped in a decaying body that can summon powerful storms.
An undead army of stormguard warriors
A giant Oni.

From Scavenger Den the game has set the rule that this characters that talks, looks and bleeds like an actual human being will survive things that actual human beings would not survive so you should have not expecting something else from the rest of the game.
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Old 31-07-17, 17:55   #18
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There is a difference between realism and believability you know. Believability is being consistent with your universe rules, even if they might not be realistic. When a character talks like a human, walks like a human and bleeds like a human, it is generally expected that she'll by and large behave like a human in any other situation. On the other hand, if a character is an immortal god, I wouldn't expect him to die like an ordinary human in ordinary conditions. "Reality' doesn't enter the equation, it's being consistent with the rules you've set out.
'.
Therefore James Bond and Ethan Hunt are immortal gods that look like a giant strawberry gum with wings made of Tuna ? and these are even movies , not video games .

And then there's classic Lara , okay she doesn't look like an ultra realistic human being but she doesn't walk like an Alien nor does she bleed like a frog either .

Complaining about stuff like these in video games in particular is pretty pointless imo , guess what , no human being can keep coming back from the dead over and over again by a simple click on a "Load" icon , of course we can repeat on a daily basis how coming back from the dead a 1000 times is utterly ridiculous and implausible but it's like beating a dead horse , because it isn't going to get us anywhere .

And Lara being able to kill all those men is part of that , conceptually we get that she's received extensive training from Roth on weaponry , therefore in the rule of the video game we're playing , she can kill all those men , and a bullet in the head won't be it for her , she'd just moan and we see a splash of blood coming out of her and that's it , subsequent shots will however get her killed but after that the game will reload and there she is again , with full health and full power . Now , in a reality simulator the first bullet in the leg in Shantytown would be the end and afterwards she'll get rained with bullets , she'll die and the game will finish , no load , no coming back alive and well , no respawn .


I feel like I'm being a broken record in repeating the following but since this particular argument keeps popping up over and over I feel obliged to , yes , the reboot games are supposed to have a realistic and grounded approach in the visuals , characters and level design departments , but all of that is still established within the basics of the video game world in general , meaning that characters can run forever without breaking a sweat , they don't need to eat or take a poop onscreen , they do the exact same animations , can carry multiple weapons that don't appear on them , can have a health bar that doesn't really exist in real life etc . In a video game some things are bound to be taken into granted , no matter what universe , theme or atmosphere this game can have .

And I'm sure CD weren't aiming to deliver a reality simulator , nor did they even say that , they were trying to make a video game that leans more towards realism in some departments , and that's 100% different to a reality simulator .

In short : it's not like it should be either a 100% unrealistic game or a reality simulator , video games can have different approaches (there are purely fantastical games and there are also games that are a mix of realism and fantasy that lean more towards the former (Reboot) or towards the latter (Classics/LAU) ) but they all share a united bunch of basic rules .

Last edited by Patrick star; 31-07-17 at 19:00.
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Old 31-07-17, 19:15   #19
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So since " this isn't a fantasy game" I guess you are not ok with:
The spirit of an ancient queen trapped in a decaying body that can summon powerful storms.
An undead army of stormguard warriors
A giant Oni.
Well yeah. I didn't much like these elements either so you won't find me complaining if these were gone.

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From Scavenger Den the game has set the rule that this characters that talks, looks and bleeds like an actual human being will survive things that actual human beings would not survive so you should have not expecting something else from the rest of the game.
Precisely, so the numerous moments where her life is in danger and she is falling from mountains and we are made worried about her fate don't hold much water because guess what, this is a videogame and she will survive anyhow without a scratch. Those moments have no suspense. There are a lot of games which feature more believable characters while shocking remaining videogames.

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Therefore James Bond and Ethan Hunt are immortal gods that look like a giant strawberry gum with wings made of Tuna ? and these are even movies , not video games .

And then there's classic Lara , okay she doesn't look like an ultra realistic human being but she doesn't walk like an Alien nor does she bleed like a frog either .
The first is called pulp fiction and the second is a stylized character. The reboot is not going for these feels, it's going for a "gritty, realistic" feeling. So those superhuman moments jive badly. Was it going for a caricaturized pulp-fictiony feelings, those moments would have felt right at home.

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Complaining about stuff like these in video games in particular is pretty pointless imo , guess what , no human being can keep coming back from the dead over and over again by a simple click on a "Load" icon , of course we can repeat on a daily basis how coming back from the dead a 1000 times is utterly ridiculous and implausible but it's like beating a dead horse , because it isn't going to get us anywhere .
Just because you accept the basic premise of a videogame being a videogame doesn't mean you let go of all attempts to achieve a certain level of believability or even consistency.

Last edited by pirate1802; 31-07-17 at 19:23.
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Old 31-07-17, 19:19   #20
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Precisely, so the numerous moments where her life is in danger and she is falling from mountains and we are made worried about her fate don't hold much water because guess what, this is a videogame and she will survive anyhow without a scratch. Those moments have no suspense.
Exactly . I don't think CD made them to make us feel "worried" about her ultimate fate to begin with , they were action moments for the sake of action moments , because video game talk aside , we know for sure that the main protagonist won't die at the end of the story , they won't reboot Lara Croft only to kill her at the end of her first reboot game .

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The first is called pulp fiction and the second is a stylized character. The reboot is not going for these feels, it's going for a "gritty, realistic" feeling.
So , are you saying that something (a game or a movie) can't have a mix of both ? the reboot may have been leaning towards realism , but again , like I said in my post , it doesn't have to be a full blown reality simulator for the sheer reason that it's leaning towards more realism (and grittiness) than fantasy .

By the way , since I've brought my examples right from Hollywood , let me remind you that it was a huge inspiration behind the reboot in general , especially with its bloody-minded action .

And Ethan Hunt is a stylized character ? I mean what the mission impossible movies aren't fantasy or cartoon movies , they're movies that take place in our world , our timeline with real human beings , only that in the realm of action movies (ACTION movies , not fantasy ones like Harry Potter or the lord of the rings) , we have to , what's the word ? "swallow" certain stuff , such as the hero being able to swim in a sea of bullets and miraculously surviving it and having the ability to slaughter loads of baddies on his own , same with the reboot in the realm of video games , regardless of the approach it might be leaning towards .

Last edited by Patrick star; 31-07-17 at 19:39.
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