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Old 08-01-18, 13:57   #11
fallenangle
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South Sea Islands: Madubu Gorge

Very tricky level for avoiding damage and there are two place you have to accept damage whatever you do.

1). When you monkey swing across the river and go the longer route to find a kayak (you have to do this to get all secrets and kills) there is a slide with spikes at the bottom. No trouble jumping over them on the way down but to get back to the opened door you have to go back that way.

Jumping up to the grab the climbable wall does <5% damage and there seems to be no way to avoid it.

2). The final fall in the kayak through the opened 'plug hole' I knew would be tough and I think I've minimized it as much as possible but it still does, guesstimating, about 55% damage. You can get through it easily even with that earlier damage but it must be the largest HP loss you're forced to take in the whole game.

If anyone knows of a legitimate technique for further reducing damage at either place please share.

Last edited by fallenangle; 10-01-18 at 12:09. Reason: Spelling :)
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Old 09-01-18, 16:44   #12
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This level too can be done without any damage. Just find the right angle to jump and grab the ladder. The drop at the end is a tricky one, you must fall onto the crocodile, basically the collision check between kayak vs croc must happen before kayak vs water, thus reducing your momentum.
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Old 10-01-18, 12:21   #13
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Thanks.

I thought I'd tried every position, jump type and angle at the spike area and did not find any place which caused no damage. There were significant variations but all caused some.

Any YT videos or pics that show the positioning/technique required.

EDIT

No YT videos I could find but I decided to have another go at this using the save position I'd made there for just this purpose. Just knowing it could be done is in itself a help.

Blow me down if I didn't actually do it on my fourth attempt.

The trick is to use the 'correct' jump type. Like several others throughout the game it needs a standing forward jump and keep holding forward and grab throughout. It does not really make sense there because she jumps shallower which should cause more damage but it does work reliably. I've done it twice now just to prove I could repeat it.

The start position for the jump is facing the grabable wall on the left with Lara's back to the opposite, right wall. On her right the spikes should be fairly close but a distinct gap. Then she should be angled slightly clockwise ie. towards the spikes so that her jump and grab aim point is directly at the distinct vertical border between the grabable area on the right and the non-grabable part on the left of the opposite wall.

When she grabs the wall her left hand will actually be in the non-grabable area.

As for that last drop: never thought of trying to land on the crocodile and I would have thought that with all the attempts I made (20+) I would have accidentally landed on it once or twice.

Guess I'll have retry that part of this level again but it means I'll have to redo the whole thing from my new no spike damage position.

Current on Antarctica and apparently can't get onto the ship without another one of those small damage drops.

Last edited by fallenangle; 10-01-18 at 14:05. Reason: New info
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Old 12-01-18, 00:00   #14
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Good luck with it! Additional problem is the way the croc moves, if you take a closer look of his animation, he not only slithers left and right but bobs up and down a bit too, so the top of his collision area doesn't stay above the water level constantly. You need a bit of a fluke there too, to drop on him when he is at, or near, the top end of his movement cycle.
You can slightly maximize your chances by making the drop at a place where there is vertical rock directly under the edge. Get close and gain just a bit of momentum, then start backpaddling in a way that just barely don't came back from the edge. That way you'll have a bit of backward momentum while falling which pulls the back of the kayak against the rock, causing it to fall unevenly, nose first. If you consider Lara's collision area, it is not an even sphere around her, like 'shields up Crofty'. The forward facing area is much bigger then under her tushie as she sits in the kayak, that gives you a tiny bit of leverage.
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Old 12-01-18, 13:12   #15
fallenangle
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I've redone the level from the, now no damage, spike trap part and got back to that last drop.

Try as I have many, many times now I can't even get the crocodile to appear in view regularly let alone get a well timed drop. I've literally hung the kayak at the point of dropping by carefully timed back-paddling for a minute without once seeing the croc at all.

In all the times I've tried if it is there it must be right underneath the water fall into the room so you can't actually see it. But judging from where it swims from when she actually lands most often it is somewhere else in the room away from that highlighted central area.

I've only seen it clearly swimming across that area on two occasions out of at least two dozen attempts.

It must be a matter of fluke allied with multiple repetition getting the croc in the right place and dropping at the precise time to avoid the damage.

I've saved positions from the whole of this level in a separate folder so I can try this again any time but I've now accepted the minimum damage the uncushioned drop does. That is slightly >50%.

There is one weird glitch in this area too. The 'piranha' who were in the pool before the plug was opened appear frozen, some almost all in mid-air above the water, flowing down into the room. In theory they should have been washed down into the room and eaten the croc.

However, they're not and nonreactive too but only until LC kayaks to the last secret area. When you come back the 'piranha' suddenly respond and can kill LC even though, obviously, still in the kayak. Luckily you can trigger the secret area earlier on land so this is no problem in a no damage run.

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That Antarctica drop from the monkey swing to be able to get onto the boat is peeving me greatly. I'm near the end of the level now and after the effort of finding ways of dealing with the multiple gun toting bad guys that drop is the only damage in the whole level.

Is there any known, legitimate, way of avoiding it?

The distance to the angled platform you drop down onto seems just too far for any jump and grab technique. I've tried many times and also using very precise positioning for the drop from the monkey swing to make sure it is onto the highest part of that platform. But it still does a sliver of damage.
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18.01.17

Now onto Tinnos.

Those wasps are an absolute pain to deal with using just the pistols and the big beast things require all sorts of tricksy methods to kill as they seem to equal LC's pistols' range, can shoot through some platforms and if you avoid their ranged attack too many times almost always come in for a melee assault. Still I've manged to deal with all of them and collected the second Uli Key.

I had to check this and what the guides say is that the wasp spawn is actually finite: the claim is that in one place there are 25 and another 10, presumably 35 in total. But there are 4 places they spawn and a couple more with individuals.

I'm trying to do all kills possible as a secondary discipline and I've come to a different theory and that is however many there are in total the spawning depends on the number of repeats of that area during a session and I think that may include saves. Either that or a variation of that eg. your kills with each repeat attempt are added up until you reach the spawn total for that location.

The reason I think this is that with the first secret area killing the wasps when you get onto the final pre-nest platform is almost impossible to do fast enough with the pistols without getting damaged or knocked off the platform. If you try to jump to the nest when they're still spawning and collect the pickups you'll either get damage and/or have your jump back out interfered with and fall.

I had to repeat that jump to the nest multiple times and then suddenly the wasps just stopped spawning.

What I'm not sure of if this also applies to the other spawning areas: the Tinnos entrance area, the flipping platform room and the room after that.

If there is some finite number of respawns in any of those places I'm not sure. They seems they keep on coming. In the flipping platform room they did eventually stop but only if LC was not at ground level. They seem to be re-triggered when LC goes back down to the floor again.

BTW one of the lower blocks in that room seems to be spawn trigger. This is useful because it means you can operate all the levers, even the lower two without triggering the wasps. But once you hit the floor, as you have to do at the end, on they come.

This is particularly troublesome in the latter area because you have to deal the two beasts there plus the wasps. Taking on both beasts there, even individually, with just the pistols proved very difficult. Leading each one back to the platform room was the best tactic but with the wasps there too your troubles are multiplied.

Last edited by fallenangle; 18-01-18 at 12:55.
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Old 21-01-18, 17:08   #16
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Finally onto All Hallows.

Am I right that it is impossible to do without a medipack if you collect all pickups?

The problem pickup is the small medipack (and crystal) in the high crawl space. Minimum health loss from the hang drop from there is about 25%. The crumbing floor damage when entering the cathedral can be minimised by a hang drop which 'only' does about 72%. Any other technique tried does 75+% and LC dies.

However with the 3% health I have left the level would be doable if it were not for that gas jet room. I've tried it multiple times, hoping that the second gas jet was on a timer but it does appear to be triggered by LC's position.

At best I can just get her to drop into the pool but she's dead even before hitting the water.

Is there any legitimate technique I can use there or the other places to reduce the damage
which would help?

I do see that when she does the hang drop from the monkey swing to the crumbling floor to be able to grab the edge she does receive some damage. That is the only place she receives damage I can see where there is any possibility of reducing it.

However using a hang drop off the slide platform down to the crumbling floor, instead of dropping down from the monkey swing, then trying to turn LC left fast enough to make the grab has proved fruitless.

It is very likely the health saved is not enough to be useful in the gas jet room anyway.

Last edited by fallenangle; 21-01-18 at 23:36.
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Old 21-01-18, 17:29   #17
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I don't think it's possible . The health loss from the first fall is too much. The guard and the dog will take care of Lara. Especially the guards last stand shot. You would need a lot of luck there.
Monkey swing close to the wall as close as possible is the only way to take not too much damage. There's no way to avoid this damage from the fire.
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Old 21-01-18, 18:45   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fallenangle View Post
Finally onto All Hallows.

Am I right that it is impossible to do without a medipack is you collect all pickups?
I think it's possible. A few years back I did a no medipack run, but I don't recall if it included all pickups in All Hallows.

PC


PS1


Regardless of all pickups, what helped reduce the damage was a trick I discovered which involved dropping Lara onto the spikes without death occurring. I only managed it a few times & could not see any specific pattern to it, only that sometimes I had Lara partially embedded into the wall.

Out of curiosity I tried this again & it appears that there is a sweet spot within the 2nd and 3rd sector of spikes.

You could try hanging here:



And landing here:



You can try landing here here as well:



Some attempts will no doubt result in death. If you succeed, simply walk though the rest of the spikes & hop into the water.

Last edited by laravision; 15-04-18 at 17:57.
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Old 21-01-18, 19:40   #19
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There are two unavoidable injuries in All Hallows, coincidentally both 32.6%. One from the crawlspace and into the cathedral video.

At that spiky burny corridor you can find a sweet spot to hop into backwards. You can also use the method Laravision described, but note that it's and out of bounds bug when Lara is embedded into the wall on the monkey swing.
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Old 22-01-18, 00:17   #20
fallenangle
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Thanks all for the help: some very helpful information. The only 'no damage' YT videos I found they didn't collect the small medipack/crystal and so avoided the damage there.

I'll check out that spike/gas jet room sweet spot.

That was just what I was looking for earlier today and I tried various jumps and drop positions from the monkey swing without any joy.

acki's YT video of the cathedral drop is very like what I was trying to do but instead of sliding down the near slide I was doing it on the far slide with a hang drop. She just wouldn't turn fast enough to be able to catch the edge. I also tried dropping onto the far slide facing back the other direction and trying to curve her run to grab the side edge nearest to the near slide.

Never managed to do it but seeing it can be done the other way means that should have been possible and is a great help. Without the damage there, if it is as significant as those % figures suggest, it will mean that apart from the gas jet room the rest of the level will be relatively easy to complete with no more damage.

The final guard and dog were a bit of pain when I did the no medipack run but easy if you got out of the water fast enough and used the magnums. As I'm using only pistols it will be more difficult but there are plenty of similar, arguably more difficult places, earlier in the game.

But for legitimate, minimum damage I'll definitely have to find that sweet spot amongst the spikes.

By the "out of bounds" bug due mean it is not considered a legitimate way of avoiding damage there? I ask because I've tried embedding her almost entirely in that wall to the point I almost couldn't move her forward and she was still cooked by the second gas jet.

Last edited by fallenangle; 22-01-18 at 00:19.
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