I'm one of the 30 who got fired by Eidos, ask away - Page 116

ryosukeyamada · 16-01-09, 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sblade

You say a lot of of things on your post, do you know there´s a quote button right? Nevertheless I´m gonna search for those Squamula sentences right now and we´ll see...

i am a lurker but i watched this soap very closely and Eric didnt deny there were talks with Microsoft before cutting parts out of Underworld, in fact he suggested they had talks with them. he also says anyone who mentioned DLC not having Underworld parts in it were lying:

http://www.tombraiderforums.com/newr...eply&p=3380879

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squamula

passing by: The reason I said that I suspected that some of the people claiming to be Crystal employees were possibly true is because I didn't really see much that was clearly wrong in what they were saying, within the boundaries of personal opinion anyway. I don't know who you are (if you believe I can keep your secret, send me a PM) but it sounds like you are legit, too. I did not realize that anyone was claiming that none of the DLC was cuts from Underworld, and if they are, then yeah, we have a truth issue here. (I haven't really read threads about DLC at all...) Without going out and looking at those threads, I'll just say that I stand behind what I've said, and if anyone wants to ask me directly to agree or disagree with claims of the prior CD posters, please do so. I didn't mean to say (reality is so complicated) that we had never spoken to Microsoft about DLC prior to the cuts I made -- these kinds of talks happen all the time -- but no deal was forged at the time. And thanks for the comment about my talents being noticed...I know that there are people on the East side of the building who are frustrated by mistakes they believe were made by me, but they don't know the whole story. I did make mistakes, but many of the complaints they have would lessen or vanish if they knew the circumstances. Rather than get mad or complain about me, I wish they'd just ask. The truth is available.

there it is, there were talks between Microsoft and Eidos-Crystal before the cuts were made in Underworld. and those talks weren't just chit-chat about the weather.

then when you see how Underworld feels pasted together at parts and then Microsoft maybe wanting more than Crystal could deliver in that amount of time, yeah i would say the DLC looked thin and they cut parts of Underworld to add to the DLC like sacrifical lamb said. my 2 pennies.

PS im using google tranlator so sorry for bad english.

Pietras · 16-01-09, 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by SacrifialLamb

I logged in one more time because like predicted Eidos started their counter attack with untruths in them. Trying to mold this thread into something they want. They now read every letter in this thread for that reason only.

What I said was and is accurate (DLC content is cut from Underworld and it was after there were negotiations with Microsoft....even Eric admitted if you read carefully, there were talks with Microsoft before he cut the parts, he didn't want to deny that, 'I never said there were no talks with Microsoft before the cuts'). Eric is a nice guy, but he lied in interviews on 2 occasions when he said the DLC was not taken from Underworld (just like the Eidos employees). On this forum he now confirmed it was taken out from Underworld (that's the total opposite of what he said in those 2 interviews, also what the Eidos employees said), after I caused a stir at Eidos, Crystal with my thread.

What the Eidos employees here say is twisted and alhough legally speaking not lies (laws are strange with that), but in normal terms which you and me speak on, are lies. And it's not just about the DLC. Legend, Anniversary, the Core stories, you name it, for 3 years you have been fed lies. And this forum has become their best front in testing the lies before spreading them everywhere.

They will keep repeating them over and over until you accept them. And when someone counters them, they will try to discredit them. I am a former Crystal employee no matter how much they try to ridicule that and we all know what Eidos is about. In this thread, after I left, they again showed their sneaky ways. And yet again, it was accepted by most of the customers who have been lied to over and over again.

So in a way, most of you deserve to be lied to by Eidos because you accept it like that. They are paid by Eidos, if they say even the slightest thing which is against the games or the process of making the games in any way, there are negative consequences for them. Even if they post 'just in their free time'. There are 14 Eidos employees active on this forum, not just the 2 who admit it. After I left a few of those started posting here too suddenly, supporting Jay and Keir to make it look substantial while it is hot air.

I am now really done, because again, if you want to believe their lies, ok, I wash my hands off of it. I've done my task of bringing you the proper version, shoot me. Off to another job interview Monday

Take care.

Good luck on the job interview. Now time for my answer to your post.

If you didn't notice the whole forum is dropping their panties off at the news that this amateur company will be gone soon.

But anyway. Welcome to the world of PR! Every company uses it just as GAME DEVELOPERS do too. How many times devs have been saying how great their game is when they knew it sucked in reality? But they just didn't want to admit they ****ed up. It's a PR too = lies = devs lie just as well. Maybe you're not like that. But it's not like you didn't know you would have to follow the PR line of your mother company when you were assigning for this job. BTW why didn't you told it all to us earlier if it was such a horrible thing to you? You could've just as well sing up using the same IP-covering software you use now and tell everything you do now like a year ago. Or 5 years ago. You do realize it doesn't look all that good when you're doing it only after they did bad to you?

Most of people here do not care what Jay and Keir say about Eidos itself because they have their own views and opinions about these things which makes them highly PR-proof. Don't forget we have years of "experience" with Eidos. People are interested in news about the game itself, media, trailers and all that jazz. If Keir or Jay start saying sth that looks like a PR job, they're always "informed" about it by someone.

And what about all those Eidos lies? Forcing the devs to release the games in good sales seasons despite not being ready? Blaming the devs for everything? Doing everything to please the shareholders? Thanks, but we knew it all for a long time.

thurauh1 · 16-01-09, 19:43

I have read nearly every post, both in Eric's thread and in this one. And I'm inclined to believe Eric more about the (cut) DLC in TR: Underworld. And here's why:

Making games is a lot like making reports for school or a paper for the university. You do research, you make a synopsis, you make a paper that is maybe twice the length of what is required. Or you start in one place, then discover that this is not at all what you're supposed to be doing. You're not supposed to be writing that paper on penal methods in public shools; you're supposed to be making a (short) synopsis of why there is unrest in these schools.

Thus, you cut your original content. And design some new content. Or you realize that you can't tell the story of why people choose a vocationel career; you need to focus on how to get people motivated in vocationel schools so that they will learn something. This means you're cutting some of your original content in order to make the ga- ehm- I mean report in time for the deadline a week or two from today. (just an example).

Now compare this, if your will to the original design document for TR: Underworld. (yes, game has design documents). This will tell you everything about the story, the art direction, the background, and much much more. It will also tell you about the camera angles, the levels in the game, where and what they are placed and what their interconnection stories are. This is what writers are hired for - to do the story. The design doc is usually made by the Lead Designer, in this instance Eric Lindstrom...

Let's say he originally planned there to be a certian amount of things in the game, the shark suit, 22 levels (instead of the 11 or 18 in the final game). At one point in time, it looked like they could implement (or make) all of these features in the game. Yet, maybe 1-1½ year before shipping, it was clear that this goal(post) couldn't be reached. And then you either extend production time or cut content. (it happens all the time...)

And of course, Eric was going to talk to Microsoft about it. And apparently, Microsoft didn't want to shell out more money to Eidos or Crystal Dynamics.
And then Eric made the decision, along with two other people, to cut some content planned for the game - to make the game's releasing deadline.

This doesn't necessarily mean the planned content were already made by the time the game shipped, just that it was planned. Then about 40% of the DLC released or going to be released is the planned content that originally was cut from the game.

fishlikelong · 16-01-09, 19:58

I just think the whole thing is unfair to those who lost jobs at Crystal and also to those who don't own an xbox!

I believe everything SL has been saying and I feel deeply sorry for him/her.

I hope Eidos does get the boot and collapse, they deserve to, surely they should have learned from the whole AOD fiasco, but of course it all comes down to money.

I hope Ubi does take over the Tomb Raider franchise, they at least don;t have the problems that Eidos causes.

aussie500 · 17-01-09, 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by SacrifialLamb

I logged in one more time because like predicted Eidos started their counter attack with untruths in them. Trying to mold this thread into something they want. They now read every letter in this thread for that reason only.

What I said was and is accurate (DLC content is cut from Underworld and it was after there were negotiations with Microsoft....even Eric admitted if you read carefully, there were talks with Microsoft before he cut the parts, he didn't want to deny that, 'I never said there were no talks with Microsoft before the cuts'). Eric is a nice guy, but he lied in interviews on 2 occasions when he said the DLC was not taken from Underworld (just like the Eidos employees). On this forum he now confirmed it was taken out from Underworld (that's the total opposite of what he said in those 2 interviews, also what the Eidos employees said), after I caused a stir at Eidos, Crystal with my thread.

What the Eidos employees here say is twisted and alhough legally speaking not lies (laws are strange with that), but in normal terms which you and me speak on, are lies. And it's not just about the DLC. Legend, Anniversary, the Core stories, you name it, for 3 years you have been fed lies. And this forum has become their best front in testing the lies before spreading them everywhere.

They will keep repeating them over and over until you accept them. And when someone counters them, they will try to discredit them. I am a former Crystal employee no matter how much they try to ridicule that and we all know what Eidos is about. In this thread, after I left, they again showed their sneaky ways. And yet again, it was accepted by most of the customers who have been lied to over and over again.

So in a way, most of you deserve to be lied to by Eidos because you accept it like that. They are paid by Eidos, if they say even the slightest thing which is against the games or the process of making the games in any way, there are negative consequences for them. Even if they post 'just in their free time'. There are 14 Eidos employees active on this forum, not just the 2 who admit it. After I left a few of those started posting here too suddenly, supporting Jay and Keir to make it look substantial while it is hot air.

I am now really done, because again, if you want to believe their lies, ok, I wash my hands off of it. I've done my task of bringing you the proper version, shoot me. Off to another job interview Monday

Take care.

Thanks for coming back SacrifialLamb, even if for only 1 more post. l am sorry about how you guys were treated by Eidos, and although technical you might be right about the dlc, my interpretation was without the dlc we still would not have got the cut out bits, so l do not consider them part of the game. l might be wrong and we might have been lied to, but why would Eric choose to lie about why he made the cuts?

Often we have seen things that were later dropped or changed in the games and we would have liked a chance to see how it would have played. No matter the original reason l am happy we might have more of a chance to see some of the idea's that never make the final cut, although everyone having the same opportunity would be preferable, rather than favouring one platform

scion05 · 17-01-09, 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomb Raider Jay

@ SL - I really do believe your an ex-employee of Crystal and I understand you want to spread the truth about the Underworld farse but what else do you expect of Eidos?

All they have ever done is cheat their way out of things, like AoD - it wasn't Core's fault the game had bugs and glitches, Eidos rushed them through the process from start to finish... and it's repeating over again now with Crystal

Agreed.

Good luck with your new job, atleast you've been honest to admit the
flaws of the company that you work for, as opposed to the other two,
who seem to glorify everything that Eidos does, which clearly isn't the
new case.

Thankyou

Megalith · 17-01-09, 18:01

My personal opinion is that everyone got what they deserved concerning Tomb Raider Underworld in general (sales,quality,dlc,etc)...This includes Eidos,Crystal Dynamics,Microsoft,Sony,Nintendo AND the fans.

Everyone got what they deserved except those 30 people from CD.Best of luck to all of you.

silver_wolf · 17-01-09, 18:03

so you're saying we deserved to get one of the best TRs in the series? yes, I would agree.

Megalith · 17-01-09, 18:16

^Its not what i said.

Nice try.

I'll explain what i meant when i said "the fans also got what they deserved" a bit more...because it might be a bit hard for some people to understand it.And don't forget this is only my opinion.

If you loved Underworld and it was the game of your life,thats fine.You deserved to play a game like this and you don't care if the game feels a bit unpolished or rushed or if it has a few bugs and glitches because in the end what matters to you more is the gameplay (and maybe the story) and you feel that Crystal Dynamics is in the right path.You loved the gameplay in TRU and this is what Tomb Raider should be for you.In your opinion you feel that the game was worth every last penny.Congratulations i'm happy for you.

If you are a fan that didn't like Underworld you probably shouldn't have rushed out to buy it in the first place.You should have waited for the reviews,videos or maybe even rented it first.What you did was that you gave your "vote" to Eidos to create more games like these so the next TR game will carry the weight of your previous "vote".This means (to Eidos or to whoever publisher is in charge)that its ok to release a TR game on a year to year base,rush the developers in order to catch the holiday seasons,because in the end fans will buy it anyway.So in the end you got what you deserved and you will continue to get this kind of treatment unless you change your consumer mentality.

belter_21 · 17-01-09, 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megalith

^Its not what i said.

Nice try.

I'll explain what i meant when i said "the fans also got what they deserved" a bit more...because it might be a bit hard for some people to understand it.And don't forget this is only my opinion.

If you loved Underworld and it was the game of your life,thats fine.You deserved to play a game like this and you don't care if the game feels a bit unpolished or rushed or if it has a few bugs and glitches because in the end what matters to you more is the gameplay (and maybe the story) and you feel that Crystal Dynamics is in the right path.You loved the gameplay in TRU and this is what Tomb Raider should be for you.In your opinion you feel that the game was worth every last penny.Congratulations i'm happy for you.

If you are a fan that didn't like Underworld you probably shouldn't have rushed out to buy it in the first place.You should have waited for the reviews,videos or maybe even rented it first.What you did was that you gave your "vote" to Eidos to create more games like these so the next TR game will carry the weight of your previous "vote".This means (to Eidos or to whoever publisher is in charge)that its ok to release a TR game on a year to year base,rush the developers in order to catch the holiday seasons,because in the end fans will buy it anyway.So in the end you got what you deserved and you will continue to get this kind of treatment unless you change your consumer mentality.

During December you could get it on the 360 for under £20. I did. I got what I deserved lol.

16-01-09, 19:58	#1154
fishlikelong Archaeologist Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Newcastle, England Posts: 1,289	I just think the whole thing is unfair to those who lost jobs at Crystal and also to those who don't own an xbox! I believe everything SL has been saying and I feel deeply sorry for him/her. I hope Eidos does get the boot and collapse, they deserve to, surely they should have learned from the whole AOD fiasco, but of course it all comes down to money. I hope Ubi does take over the Tomb Raider franchise, they at least don;t have the problems that Eidos causes. __________________ There was a HOLE here, It's gone now

17-01-09, 18:01	#1157
Megalith Professor Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: A sunny and beautiful place/Greece Posts: 4,064	My personal opinion is that everyone got what they deserved concerning Tomb Raider Underworld in general (sales,quality,dlc,etc)...This includes Eidos,Crystal Dynamics,Microsoft,Sony,Nintendo AND the fans. Everyone got what they deserved except those 30 people from CD.Best of luck to all of you. __________________ Back to basics.

17-01-09, 18:03	#1158
silver_wolf Relic Hunter Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Limbo Posts: 9,510	so you're saying we deserved to get one of the best TRs in the series? yes, I would agree. __________________ PSN: MrGoodbytes // They're not Swedish, Mac, they're Norwegian.

17-01-09, 18:16	#1159
Megalith Professor Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: A sunny and beautiful place/Greece Posts: 4,064	^Its not what i said.Nice try. I'll explain what i meant when i said "the fans also got what they deserved" a bit more...because it might be a bit hard for some people to understand it.And don't forget this is only my opinion. If you loved Underworld and it was the game of your life,thats fine.You deserved to play a game like this and you don't care if the game feels a bit unpolished or rushed or if it has a few bugs and glitches because in the end what matters to you more is the gameplay (and maybe the story) and you feel that Crystal Dynamics is in the right path.You loved the gameplay in TRU and this is what Tomb Raider should be for you.In your opinion you feel that the game was worth every last penny.Congratulations i'm happy for you. If you are a fan that didn't like Underworld you probably shouldn't have rushed out to buy it in the first place.You should have waited for the reviews,videos or maybe even rented it first.What you did was that you gave your "vote" to Eidos to create more games like these so the next TR game will carry the weight of your previous "vote".This means (to Eidos or to whoever publisher is in charge)that its ok to release a TR game on a year to year base,rush the developers in order to catch the holiday seasons,because in the end fans will buy it anyway.So in the end you got what you deserved and you will continue to get this kind of treatment unless you change your consumer mentality. __________________ Back to basics. Last edited by Megalith; 17-01-09 at 19:06.

16-01-09, 19:43	#1153
thurauh1 Hobbyist Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 5	I have read nearly every post, both in Eric's thread and in this one. And I'm inclined to believe Eric more about the (cut) DLC in TR: Underworld. And here's why: Making games is a lot like making reports for school or a paper for the university. You do research, you make a synopsis, you make a paper that is maybe twice the length of what is required. Or you start in one place, then discover that this is not at all what you're supposed to be doing. You're not supposed to be writing that paper on penal methods in public shools; you're supposed to be making a (short) synopsis of why there is unrest in these schools. Thus, you cut your original content. And design some new content. Or you realize that you can't tell the story of why people choose a vocationel career; you need to focus on how to get people motivated in vocationel schools so that they will learn something. This means you're cutting some of your original content in order to make the ga- ehm- I mean report in time for the deadline a week or two from today. (just an example). Now compare this, if your will to the original design document for TR: Underworld. (yes, game has design documents). This will tell you everything about the story, the art direction, the background, and much much more. It will also tell you about the camera angles, the levels in the game, where and what they are placed and what their interconnection stories are. This is what writers are hired for - to do the story. The design doc is usually made by the Lead Designer, in this instance Eric Lindstrom... Let's say he originally planned there to be a certian amount of things in the game, the shark suit, 22 levels (instead of the 11 or 18 in the final game). At one point in time, it looked like they could implement (or make) all of these features in the game. Yet, maybe 1-1½ year before shipping, it was clear that this goal(post) couldn't be reached. And then you either extend production time or cut content. (it happens all the time...) And of course, Eric was going to talk to Microsoft about it. And apparently, Microsoft didn't want to shell out more money to Eidos or Crystal Dynamics. And then Eric made the decision, along with two other people, to cut some content planned for the game - to make the game's releasing deadline. This doesn't necessarily mean the planned content were already made by the time the game shipped, just that it was planned. Then about 40% of the DLC released or going to be released is the planned content that originally was cut from the game.