Too many people have died for me to trust you. Including a good friend - Von Croy?

[Profc]

"Too many people have died for me to trust you. Including a good friend - Von Croy."

Is this suppossed to mean that she met Karel before the start of the game? This sentence clearly implies that Von Croy only died, because Lara trusted him.

[trXD]

I think she was just saying that the situation is too serious for her to just randomly trust someone suspicious looking. It isn't just about putting herself in danger, she could be helping a murderer.

[skylark1121]

Originally Posted by Profc

"Too many people have died for me to trust you. Including a good friend - Von Croy."

Is this suppossed to mean that she met Karel before the start of the game? This sentence clearly implies that Von Croy only died, because Lara trusted him.

I think so...
There were just too many holes in the storyline to know for sure.
We (the player) had never seen or heard of Karel before the last level of the game.
Remember when Lara first saw Karel and she exclaimed, "Karel?!"
This let's me know that she knew him before, or possibly met him in a part of AoD that was taken out of the final version.

[VictorXD]

Originally Posted by skylark1121

I think so...
There were just too many holes in the storyline to know for sure.
We (the player) had never seen or heard of Karel before the last level of the game.
Remember when Lara first saw Karel and she exclaimed, "Karel?!"
This let's me know that she knew him before, or possibly met him in a part of AoD that was taken out of the final version.

This I guess.
All we know for certain is that she would meet Karel in the Kriegler Castle, in Germany. Even though Germany was deleted in early development stages.

[Profc]

Originally Posted by skylark1121

I think so...
There were just too many holes in the storyline to know for sure.
We (the player) had never seen or heard of Karel before the last level of the game.
Remember when Lara first saw Karel and she exclaimed, "Karel?!"
This let's me know that she knew him before, or possibly met him in a part of AoD that was taken out of the final version.

Adrian Smith mentioned that they have introduced some characters that they would later explore. I think that Karel was one of them. They were always quite careful about what to explain during the time between Tr4-tr6. Maybe he was the person that convinced Lara to meet Von Croy? Is that what Lara was referring to, when she said trust?

[!Lara Croft!]

I interpreted that she couldnt trust Karel, because he was in cahoots with eckhardt, who she believes killed von croy.

[Profc]

Originally Posted by !Lara Croft!

I interpreted that she couldnt trust Karel, because he was in cahoots with eckhardt, who she believes killed von croy.

Ohh. So as a foreigner I completely misunderstood that line.

[skylark1121]

Originally Posted by Profc

Adrian Smith mentioned that they have introduced some characters that they would later explore. I think that Karel was one of them. They were always quite careful about what to explain during the time between Tr4-tr6. Maybe he was the person that convinced Lara to meet Von Croy? Is that what Lara was referring to, when she said trust?

It's possible. I've always thought Lara came to her own terms - in the case of meeting Von Croy.
Karel may have helped Lara in Kriegler Castle in Germany - if that's where they met. They may have had some kind of partnership.
I might not be remembering clearly, but didn't Karel ask Lara to join him at the end of AoD?
[goes to check cutscenes]

Edit: working on it..

[skylark1121]

The Pre-Final cutscene of AoD




I analyzed the cutscene a bit.

Interesting tid-bits:

-- Lara asks Karel, "Will you destroy his work?" It kind of implies that she expects him to be on her side or something.

--Karel does offer Lara the chance to come with him, or partner up. (This could also be since he took the shape of so many of Lara's acquaintances in AoD -- so he knows her capabilities).

--He says, "I have helped you all along, both here and in Paris." One has to ask themselves why he would help her. Why Lara Croft? They must have a history.

My thoughts:

I think Lara and Karel were involved together at one time. In fact, I think Karel and Kurtis are the same person. Notice the similarity in name. I doubt the writers would give two such important characters in this game such similar names for no reason. Also notice how blue Kurtis' eyes are throughout the game. The close up is when Lara comes in flames out of Rennes Pawn shop after the explosion. This is when Kurtis is smoking the cigarette. It shows his eyes. Then Karel's eyes are the exact same shade. Notice, however, that when Karel changes form to - example - Bouchard, his eyes are green. That would be why Lara can't find Kurtis at the end of the game. Kurtis' weapon vibrated at the end.That meant he wasn't dead. Supposedly, one can never kill Nephilim, and that would also explain all of his inhumanity. Of course the Lux Veratiatis factor in very much right here. We know Kurtis was involved, but was Karel? Possibly. Of course, Lara thought the Periapt Shards could Kill Nephilim - atleast with Eckardt, but he was more of a liaison for Karel and and The Sleeper. The Sleeper was killed by Eckardts artifact thing (can't remember name) ,and the fact that Eckardt and Karel had "been killed."


It's a long shot, but the PI inside of me is analytical to these things. I hope it was at least a good read.

Edit: sorry for the double post, but I thought this deserved a post of its own.

[!Lara Croft!]

Karel cant be kurtis, we saw them both in the same room at the same time in the Louvre.