TR1 "No scratch" Stats - Page 35

Nicky · 07-10-04, 19:17

Quote:

Originally posted by SYS:
Actually, it's understandable, since it must do the same as Lara...

You know, this makes me think now: what would the double do if Lara attempted to do a corner bug in that room? I don't know if there are corner-bug friendly (

) corners in there, it's just a hypothesis - but I guess the double would as well jump upwards against the block? And if Lara was transported on top of the block, would the double be transported on its block as well?

I think I'm going to have a look at this

[ 07. October 2004, 20:21: Message edited by: Nicky ]

Neteru · 07-10-04, 19:48

I think she must do Nicky. And SYS, thinking about it, when she came alive again for me I think I had actually gone to the slope and jumped on it. Why I did that I have no idea

SYS · 07-10-04, 20:16

...a voice from the darkness.....

Nicky, that sounds very interesting! I'm very curious about the results!

Net', actually this is a useful and well-known thing, and even the FAQ on the TR1Gold CD mentiones it, if my memory serves me. It's very important to know about this, because You may bump into a nasty savebug in the "double's room": after saving and reloading here, it won't move anymore, and You will stuck. The only way to fix this is sliding down into the room again from that slope (so, its trigger is on the slope). When I completed the game for the second time, I myself also experienced that bug..my first thought was I have to reloading the game from an earlier point and try again, but fortunately I also remembered for the FAQ, and then I knew how can I fix it...

Anyway, I have to mention one more fact, what is also a well know thing, I think. So, I'm sure You noticed it too. After You killed the double, it will be lying in the lava, but it still will be able to move its head, just like how Lara's doing! So, it doesn't matter its "dead", it's still trying to do the same like Lara. LOL, it seems like its rather a robot or something like that..a "skinless mutant atlantean android" or a "streaky bacon android" (LOL, how weird!) perhaps....

SYS "Congratulations Ms Croft. You are positively Amazonian."

Lacek · 09-10-04, 11:57

Fallen from light... Reborn in shadow... Haunted by memories... Confronted by evil...

Greetings!

I have good news:

I'VE FINISHED THE TOMB RAIDER "NO SCRATCH" CHALLENGE - DEDICATED TO SYS!!!

Yesterday night I finally managed to complete the final level. It was harder than expected, and I also had to make compromises. During my attemptings I had to realise that there are two scratches you can't avoid: the big fall back to the Scion-room, and the second dart in the Dart-room. (I still remember that maybe I could make it before, but I have to check it...) If you start shimmying so, that a dart can hurt your right arm yet, the next will still hurt your left arm. This is because of the structure of that place: this is a plane block, and the darts hit Lara where she is the most broaded; at her shoulders (and also this is the most overhanging part of her because of the backpack, so the darts reach her earlier). As she's a wasp-waisted girl (

), getting through the darts is much more easier when they hit the wall at waistline. So in fact you have to take "less way" on a sloped block, even if it sounds weird. All the other darts can be avoided. This is the case... Thus I had to accept this tiny scratch also as an inevitable one. I could make use of the 'bug' you made, but as I didn't want to save and 'cheat', I didn't make it. Here are my statistics:

The Great Pyramid

Kills: 6 (Legless, Scions, 3 Running Creatures, Jacqueline Natla)
Pickups: 31 (2 Small Medi Packs, 5 Large Medi Packs, 22 Uzi Clips, 1 Magnum Clip, 1 Shotgun Shell)
Secrets: 3/3 (Corrected with HEXpert)
Time: 20:31
Number of saves: 1 (at the very end of the level)

As I said before, the level was quite hard, because there were many wacky things. I was suffering a lot with Mr. Legless, and moreover Natla kept telling me with every loading: "You can't do this!", and really I couldn't for a while, and I became a little bit confused. Then I always stopped her at "You can...".

And of course I could, but the situation was always dangerous, as Legless didn't need to reach me, because often I got hurt only by his psychotic field. But finally I had a quite good method against him, could make an end for running off the platform every time, so at the end I could trick him, and he exploded like a stupid blond giant has to explode.

The way back to the Scion-room was easy, and so were the three creatures. The Dart-room was risky and I had to be always very careful, but most of the time I could make it. The most wacky thing was in the next room: the lava-splatter. You never knew if you can go through unscratched, or they will hurt you. And it was very nerve-racking if you had to start again from here (as most of the time you had to).

The next part was challenging, there were so conceited traps until the third secret. Of course they were easy now, for the thousandth.

Natla... Now, she was a hard case. He wanted to prove me every time her statement on my skills. She is a very hard and tricky enemy. She fooled me many times, and made me mad. But there were also funny situations... Once, when I shoot her down above a slope (at the passage that leads to the first set of pillars), and she woke up, you should have seen that! She was sliding on the slope, but she didn't want to, so she was running upwards without any result: she was marking time, of course while shooting me. This time I made a savegame about this interesting thing, but sadly after loading it in, she was already on the plane block, at the bottom of the slope.

After many tiresome tryings I found a quite sure method to defeat her, but she's AI changes fast, so it depends on many things that you can kill her or not. But finally-finally I made it, and the great escape drew to an end. As well as this challenge. I was a little bit fed up with it, but now that it's over, I miss it. This was my greatest success in Tomb Raider games so far, I think. I'd like to make also Unfinished Business, but I think we should wait for a while with it. I'm tired. And I know I have many things to see yet, now for joy: edited levels, debugging AOD, etc, etc...

In the next few days I'm making my overall statistics, and a package that will contain my savegames, screenshots, statistics and my comments to each of the levels, and I'll send it to you, who joined this challenge.

It was good to play with you!

Neteru · 09-10-04, 12:29

Well done SYS... or do I mean Lacek?

Hehe, no, Well done Lacek

And further congratulations on maintaining your one save per level rule!

Yes, the lava spurts can be tricky, but Nicky also discovered that they too do not load after a save, though you couldn't have used this. Myself, I jumped past them. Very delicate considering there are spikes in front and behind that one free square in between the first spurts. Shame about the darts. You know how I did it, but I'm sure it can be done without a scratch. It must be possilbe. Oh well, for future investigation I think.

I know exactly what you mean about finishing the challenge and then missing it. I felt a little bereft when I finished, and so I played UB and felt so much better

It was good to be back in Atlantis. Imagine that!!

But I didn't play that 'no scratch' and I felt like a real cheat too. LOL

Well done again. It's been great playing this with everyone.

[ 09. October 2004, 13:31: Message edited by: Neteru ]

Nicky · 09-10-04, 17:05

Congratulations, Lacek!

The lava spurts do load after you save/load, but not immediately - that is, when you load, the air is spur-free (

) for some seconds, so you can make your move at more ease before they appear again

I found this extremely helpful in that room where you jump from slope to slope right and left of a small lava stream (where a bridge is raised that leads to a secret). My saves raised dramatically in this place, as I practically saved after every new jump

However later, in that cave where there are lava spurts and spike pits, this wasn't exactly the case, as I found that the spurts may not load when you load but only assuming you are away from them. When you approach their area, there they are again, so your movements there have to be very careful, even with this little trick applied

I agree too, it has been a great game

Lacek · 09-10-04, 18:12

Fallen from light... Reborn in shadow... Haunted by memories... Confronted by evil...

Thank you, guys, thank you very much!

You are sweet!

Net', why I think, that damned dart can't be done:

Quote:

Originally posted by me:

If you start shimmying so, that a dart can hurt your right arm yet, the next will still hurt your left arm.

If I wouldn't think it is impossible, I could have finished this challenge earlier. I was experimenting with it too much... But I hope you are right, and not me. Anyway, my old savegame didn't say anything...

Neteru · 09-10-04, 19:16

Ah yes I see what you mean Lacek. I just went and had a look at it. It's the second dart that's the problem. If you can get the dart to miss the right elbow (which you can), great, but it WILL get the left elbow. It's the timing yes. Lara can't move quick enough.

Oh what a shame.

Thorn · 09-10-04, 19:47

This thread would make a wonderful novel!

Nicky · 09-10-04, 20:25

I can also see what Lacek means about that dart - had to experiment a lot before applying the little trick found by Net

That dart seems to always get Lara, and it doesn't matter from where you start your shimmying.

[ 09. October 2004, 21:27: Message edited by: Nicky ]

07-10-04, 19:48	#342
Neteru Tomb Raider Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Albion Posts: 21,239	I think she must do Nicky. And SYS, thinking about it, when she came alive again for me I think I had actually gone to the slope and jumped on it. Why I did that I have no idea

07-10-04, 20:16	#343
SYS Archaeologist Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 1,269	*...a voice from the darkness.....* Nicky, that sounds very interesting! I'm very curious about the results! Net', actually this is a useful and well-known thing, and even the FAQ on the TR1Gold CD mentiones it, if my memory serves me. It's very important to know about this, because You may bump into a nasty savebug in the "double's room": after saving and reloading here, it won't move anymore, and You will stuck. The only way to fix this is sliding down into the room again from that slope (so, its trigger is on the slope). When I completed the game for the second time, I myself also experienced that bug..my first thought was I have to reloading the game from an earlier point and try again, but fortunately I also remembered for the FAQ, and then I knew how can I fix it... Anyway, I have to mention one more fact, what is also a well know thing, I think. So, I'm sure You noticed it too. After You killed the double, it will be lying in the lava, but it still will be able to move its head, just like how Lara's doing! So, it doesn't matter its "dead", it's still trying to do the same like Lara. LOL, it seems like its rather a robot or something like that..a "skinless mutant atlantean android" or a "streaky bacon android" (LOL, how weird!) perhaps.... *SYS "Congratulations Ms Croft. You are positively Amazonian."*

09-10-04, 11:57	#344
Lacek Historian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Ják / Hungary Posts: 312	Fallen from light... Reborn in shadow... Haunted by memories... Confronted by evil... Greetings! I have good news: I'VE FINISHED THE TOMB RAIDER "NO SCRATCH" CHALLENGE - DEDICATED TO SYS!!! Yesterday night I finally managed to complete the final level. It was harder than expected, and I also had to make compromises. During my attemptings I had to realise that there are two scratches you can't avoid: the big fall back to the Scion-room, and the second dart in the Dart-room. (I still remember that maybe I could make it before, but I have to check it...) If you start shimmying so, that a dart can hurt your right arm yet, the next will still hurt your left arm. This is because of the structure of that place: this is a plane block, and the darts hit Lara where she is the most broaded; at her shoulders (and also this is the most overhanging part of her because of the backpack, so the darts reach her earlier). As she's a wasp-waisted girl ( ), getting through the darts is much more easier when they hit the wall at waistline. So in fact you have to take "less way" on a sloped block, even if it sounds weird. All the other darts can be avoided. This is the case... Thus I had to accept this tiny scratch also as an inevitable one. I could make use of the 'bug' you made, but as I didn't want to save and 'cheat', I didn't make it. Here are my statistics: The Great Pyramid Kills: 6 (Legless, Scions, 3 Running Creatures, Jacqueline Natla) Pickups: 31 (2 Small Medi Packs, 5 Large Medi Packs, 22 Uzi Clips, 1 Magnum Clip, 1 Shotgun Shell) Secrets: 3/3 (Corrected with HEXpert) Time: 20:31 Number of saves: 1 (at the very end of the level) As I said before, the level was quite hard, because there were many wacky things. I was suffering a lot with Mr. Legless, and moreover Natla kept telling me with every loading: "You can't do this!", and really I couldn't for a while, and I became a little bit confused. Then I always stopped her at "You can...". And of course I could, but the situation was always dangerous, as Legless didn't need to reach me, because often I got hurt only by his psychotic field. But finally I had a quite good method against him, could make an end for running off the platform every time, so at the end I could trick him, and he exploded like a stupid blond giant has to explode. The way back to the Scion-room was easy, and so were the three creatures. The Dart-room was risky and I had to be always very careful, but most of the time I could make it. The most wacky thing was in the next room: the lava-splatter. You never knew if you can go through unscratched, or they will hurt you. And it was very nerve-racking if you had to start again from here (as most of the time you had to). The next part was challenging, there were so conceited traps until the third secret. Of course they were easy now, for the thousandth. Natla... Now, she was a hard case. He wanted to prove me every time her statement on my skills. She is a very hard and tricky enemy. She fooled me many times, and made me mad. But there were also funny situations... Once, when I shoot her down above a slope (at the passage that leads to the first set of pillars), and she woke up, you should have seen that! She was sliding on the slope, but she didn't want to, so she was running upwards without any result: she was marking time, of course while shooting me. This time I made a savegame about this interesting thing, but sadly after loading it in, she was already on the plane block, at the bottom of the slope. After many tiresome tryings I found a quite sure method to defeat her, but she's AI changes fast, so it depends on many things that you can kill her or not. But finally-finally I made it, and the great escape drew to an end. As well as this challenge. I was a little bit fed up with it, but now that it's over, I miss it. This was my greatest success in Tomb Raider games so far, I think. I'd like to make also Unfinished Business, but I think we should wait for a while with it. I'm tired. And I know I have many things to see yet, now for joy: edited levels, debugging AOD, etc, etc... In the next few days I'm making my overall statistics, and a package that will contain my savegames, screenshots, statistics and my comments to each of the levels, and I'll send it to you, who joined this challenge. It was good to play with you!

09-10-04, 12:29	#345
Neteru Tomb Raider Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Albion Posts: 21,239	Well done SYS... or do I mean Lacek? Hehe, no, Well done Lacek And further congratulations on maintaining your one save per level rule! Yes, the lava spurts can be tricky, but Nicky also discovered that they too do not load after a save, though you couldn't have used this. Myself, I jumped past them. Very delicate considering there are spikes in front and behind that one free square in between the first spurts. Shame about the darts. You know how I did it, but I'm sure it can be done without a scratch. It must be possilbe. Oh well, for future investigation I think. I know exactly what you mean about finishing the challenge and then missing it. I felt a little bereft when I finished, and so I played UB and felt so much better It was good to be back in Atlantis. Imagine that!! But I didn't play that 'no scratch' and I felt like a real cheat too. LOL Well done again. It's been great playing this with everyone. [ 09. October 2004, 13:31: Message edited by: Neteru ]

09-10-04, 17:05	#346
Nicky Tomb Raider Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 16,013	Congratulations, Lacek! The lava spurts do load after you save/load, but not immediately - that is, when you load, the air is spur-free ( ) for some seconds, so you can make your move at more ease before they appear again I found this extremely helpful in that room where you jump from slope to slope right and left of a small lava stream (where a bridge is raised that leads to a secret). My saves raised dramatically in this place, as I practically saved after every new jump However later, in that cave where there are lava spurts and spike pits, this wasn't exactly the case, as I found that the spurts may not load when you load but only assuming you are away from them. When you approach their area, there they are again, so your movements there have to be very careful, even with this little trick applied I agree too, it has been a great game

09-10-04, 19:16	#348
Neteru Tomb Raider Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Albion Posts: 21,239	Ah yes I see what you mean Lacek. I just went and had a look at it. It's the second dart that's the problem. If you can get the dart to miss the right elbow (which you can), great, but it WILL get the left elbow. It's the timing yes. Lara can't move quick enough. Oh what a shame.

09-10-04, 19:47	#349
Thorn Relic Hunter Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,738	This thread would make a wonderful novel!

09-10-04, 20:25	#350
Nicky Tomb Raider Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 16,013	I can also see what Lacek means about that dart - had to experiment a lot before applying the little trick found by Net That dart seems to always get Lara, and it doesn't matter from where you start your shimmying. [ 09. October 2004, 21:27: Message edited by: Nicky ]