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Ikas90
28-06-12, 09:00
This is very scary. I felt it needed to be shown to a larger audience, which is why I posted it in General Chat. If more appropriate for the debate section, then move it there. This is more of a news topic.

The world's first geneticallymodified humans have been created, it was revealed last night.

The disclosure that 30 healthy babies were born after a series of experiments in the United States provoked another furious debate about ethics.

So far, two of the babies have been tested and have been found to contain genes from three 'parents'.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-43767/Worlds-GM-babies-born.html

voltz
28-06-12, 09:05
Super Soldiers here we come.

!Lara Croft!
28-06-12, 09:17
Oh god no, this is something we shouldn't be 'looking into'.

I think the little saying is appropriate here.

"Scientists need to show restraint. All the time asking if they COULD, never considering whether or not they SHOULD."

xLara_Nathanx
28-06-12, 09:44
Name one of them Miranda Lawson.

Greenkey2
28-06-12, 09:48
I think the little saying is appropriate here.

"Scientists need to show restraint. All the time asking if they COULD, never considering whether or not they SHOULD."

Dr Malcolm, Jurassic Park, 1993.

Truer words were never spoken.

tampi
28-06-12, 09:51
Hitler's dream.

http://i.imgur.com/gpgFs.png (http://imgur.com/gpgFs)

BinRaider
28-06-12, 10:19
This is very wrong.

How long before scientists use GM babies for research on various diseases like Cancer? Or how long before it would be acceptable for parents decide to have a GM baby to make sure he/she is beautiful or incredibly intelligent or incredibly athletic? I understand this could be good in some ways because scientists could stop them from getting fatal and horrible diseases like Cancer and Alzheimer's but the bad things overshadow the good by far, imo.

I'm not religious but this is definitely stepping too far from the line.

Larua croft
28-06-12, 10:24
This is eugenics

Stevo505
28-06-12, 10:26
Hopefully they don't turn out retarded.

scoopy_loopy
28-06-12, 10:28
Read the article, it all sounded perfectly fine to me? :confused:

Miharu
28-06-12, 10:32
Read the article, it all sounded perfectly fine to me? :confused:

Same. :)

Cochrane
28-06-12, 10:36
I do not think that this is really scary. We've just been trained to think of it as scary from countless movies. But remember: Things go wrong in Jurassic Park because " Dinosaur Park opens, everyone happy" is a boring story, not for any other reason.

Zebra
28-06-12, 10:36
This is a good thing as long as it's used for the right reasons. In this case it is. They're using it to give otherwise infertile women a baby. I don't see what's wrong with that.

BinRaider
28-06-12, 10:37
Read the article, it all sounded perfectly fine to me? :confused:

Well it pointed out all the points I made tbh.

And it said that the infertile mothers would probably pass down their infertility to their daughters.

I just don't understand why you would want to do this. It will definitely lead to parents genetically modifying their children to be more beautiful, athletic and intelligent whether out in the open or behind closed doors. It makes me sick to think there are people like that out there that would treat their own children like tools to their means but the fact is: there are.

Miharu
28-06-12, 10:37
I just never understood the argument of people playing god, even though we already do. People are scared of change in my opinion.

Zebra
28-06-12, 10:38
Well it pointed out all the points I made tbh.

And it said that the infertile mothers would probably pass down their infertility to their daughters.

I just don't understand why you would want to do this. It will definitely lead to parents genetically modifying their children to be more beautiful, athletic and intelligent whether out in the open or behind closed doors. It makes me sick to think there are people like that out there that would treat their own children like tools to their means but the fact is: there are.

Ehm...I don't see how this would "definitely" lead to that.

BinRaider
28-06-12, 10:41
Ehm...I don't see how this would "definitely" lead to that.

At some point it will. Look at the history of the human race. Humans will always go too far with power they cannot handle. I don't mean to be dramatic but we do.

Look at what we are doing to our planet. We're killing off whole species like there's no tomorrow and all for our own selfish gain. We're completely affecting the eco-system for worse off and there isn't a certainty that we could make it better. That's just one example.

jajay119
28-06-12, 10:48
Genome soliders just around the corner then.

Ikas90
28-06-12, 10:50
At some point it will. Look at the history of the human race. Humans will always go too far with power they cannot handle. I don't mean to be dramatic but we do.

Look at what we are doing to our planet. We're killing of whole species like there's no tomorrow and all for our own selfish gain. We're completely affecting the eco-system for worse off and there isn't a certainty that we could make it better. That's just one example.

Agreed.

Looks like a 'survival of the fittest' based matter. Sooner or later they will start genetically modifying us to be invincible.

Prometheus will become a true story lol.

tampi
28-06-12, 11:13
Read the article, it all sounded perfectly fine to me? :confused:

I seem to recall that the discovery of the atomic bomb also had positive intentions.

The problem, as always is to know, if those people will want to be like they will be.
Today people want to change their face (bla, bla, blah) because they are unhappy with it. Will be they happy with the decision taken by a group of scientists on them?
I think no all them will be. Currently the onus is on the nature of things, but now, those responsible will be people.

Encore
28-06-12, 11:17
I do not think that this is really scary. We've just been trained to think of it as scary from countless movies. But remember: Things go wrong in Jurassic Park because " Dinosaur Park opens, everyone happy" is a boring story, not for any other reason.

Err... no, things go wrong in Jurassic Park because opening up a theme park with friggin' dinosaurs is a TERRIBLE IDEA. That was the gist of it. It's not that genetically engineering a dinosaur was necessarily bad, but doing it in order to explore it in a theme park was really, really, really stupid.

scoopy_loopy
28-06-12, 12:11
Did you guys not read the article? They didn't pick and choose genes for these babies, all they did was enable infertile women to have children. This thread's title is totally misleading, and what actually happened sounds very boring and tame compared to what some of you seem to think is going on. :p

dream raider
28-06-12, 12:20
Did you guys not read the article? They didn't pick and choose genes for these babies, all they did was enable infertile women to have children. This thread's title is totally misleading, and what actually happened sounds very boring and tame compared to what some of you seem to think is going on. :p

But they didn't just enable infertile women to have children.

Genetic fingerprint tests on two one-year- old children confirm that they have inherited DNA from three adults --two women and one man.

The fact that the children have inherited the extra genes and incorporated them into their 'germline' means that they will, in turn, be able to pass them on to their own offspring.

TRLegendLuver
28-06-12, 12:30
This could end terribly, and most likely will. There's a reason human beings only have genes from two branches, not three. Only one man and one woman. This reminds me of the whole cloning the sheep thing they were trying to do but couldn't get it to work. And as someone said earlier, just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. There's a certain point where you go past physics and science and create something entirely different; something of which you may not be able to control and or handle at a later date because of the desire to know more than human beings should know. There's a reason we're not meant to have genes from three different branches.

Zelda master
28-06-12, 12:42
From the article itself it sounds good, but it's a human being that changed something about another human being. Let's not get our hopes up, this might turn into a nightmare scenario where humans think they might be able to become a god...

scoopy_loopy
28-06-12, 12:42
But they didn't just enable infertile women to have children.

But I don't see the big deal? They didn't get to pick and chose which genes to take from each "parent", neither does it say that that's what they're working towards. So, I think it's okay. It could be quite cute too, for instance lesbian couples could technically have children which would inherit traits from them both (as well as the sperm donor). :3

NRO.
28-06-12, 13:16
Ugh, this isn't right in more ways than one.

Wait, the title is misleading. it seems they found the cure for infertility. Call me when they choose the gender and the eyecolor.

Also, I CALL DIBS ON THE NOVEL IDEA WHERE THERE ARE ONLY FEW "PURE" HUMANS IN THE WORLD, SURROUNDED BY MODIFIED PEOPLE, AND THEY HAVE TO FIGHT THEIR WAY TROUGH BECAUSE THE MODIFIED PEOPLE HAVE GONE INSANE.

Killercowz
28-06-12, 13:18
Ho
My
God.

On my birthday?
Yippe!

lara c. fan
28-06-12, 13:21
But I don't see the big deal? They didn't get to pick and chose which genes to take from each "parent", neither does it say that that's what they're working towards. So, I think it's okay. It could be quite cute too, for instance lesbian couples could technically have children which would inherit traits from them both (as well as the sperm donor). :3

I thought that was the whole point of having the 2 females and 1 male anyway. :p

just*raidin*tomb
28-06-12, 13:26
Oh god.

GATTACA comes to mind.

Killercowz
28-06-12, 13:30
GATTACA comes to mind.

That's unfortunate.

patriots88888
28-06-12, 13:35
Don't know enough about the specifics to comment properly but the idea of genetic tampering is a bit unsettling. That doesn't mean I'm against it to the point where we give up on ways to beat the numerous diseases/ailments that this might be able to but that is about the extent of it that I would feel comfortable with... aka no 'boys from brazil' please! Know your limits and stick by them!

just*raidin*tomb
28-06-12, 13:51
That's unfortunate.

Surely I'm not the only one? :p

A future with genetically modified children. A future where the genetically perfected are the majority and the normal born people are discriminated against for being "less human" ironically.

I am also reminded of Deus Ex though the situation is somewhat different, the moral story is virtually the same.

Spong
28-06-12, 13:53
So does this mean octopus babies and stuff? Because I think that would be pretty cool :cool:

Killercowz
28-06-12, 13:54
Surely I'm not the only one? :p

A future with genetically modified children. A future where the genetically perfected are the majority and the normal born people are discriminated against for being "less human" ironically.

Oh yes, I see.
I mean the plotline for the movie wasn't ridiculous, I just didn't like the movie. :p
I hope that doesn't happen though, although I doubt we would misuse genetic engineering for something like fancy traits.

Draco
28-06-12, 14:00
Gattica


Oh and the obligatory: KAAAAAAHHNNNNN!!!!! [/shatnershake]

just*raidin*tomb
28-06-12, 14:04
Oh yes, I see.
I mean the plotline for the movie wasn't ridiculous, I just didn't like the movie. :p
I hope that doesn't happen though, although I doubt we would misuse genetic engineering for something like fancy traits.

Humans can be terrible and put into the wrong hands its a definite possibility. It's not just fancy traits though. It's getting rid of genes which are linked to diseases, imperfections that shorten life, and yeah it does eventually even go into eye color and really anything and everything...strength, height, everything. I could totally see it happening and that's a scary thought. While the intent may be good, the result might not. :/

I didn't like the movie either btw. :p

Weemanply109
28-06-12, 14:05
Oh, god. Think of the possibilities.;_;

Name one of them Miranda Lawson.

+1

AmericanAssassin
28-06-12, 14:07
This sounds rather awesome to me. I have no problem with furthering this type of science. :D

Wraith
28-06-12, 14:11
At some point it will. Look at the history of the human race. Humans will always go too far with power they cannot handle. I don't mean to be dramatic but we do.

Look at what we are doing to our planet. We're killing off whole species like there's no tomorrow and all for our own selfish gain. We're completely affecting the eco-system for worse off and there isn't a certainty that we could make it better. That's just one example.

I agree. There's been no new discovery that humans ultimately haven't put to use for nefarious purposes,no matter how good it's initial intent of discovery was. Humans simply lack the wisdom for anything truly altruistic or beneficial. And,it seems,all too intent on finding new ways in which to enslave each other.

But,if this becomes the thing: I want one genetically altered to never scream or throw tantrums >_>

xXhayleyroxXx
28-06-12, 14:15
Super Soldiers here we come.

I sure hope so if it means I could genetically make Captain America *.*/notthatI'ddothatoranything :whi:
~~~
They've been doing this with animals, namely cattle, for a while now :p

Killercowz
28-06-12, 14:27
Humans can be terrible and put into the wrong hands its a definite possibility. It's not just fancy traits though. It's getting rid of genes which are linked to diseases, imperfections that shorten life, and yeah it does eventually even go into eye color and really anything and everything...strength, height, everything. I could totally see it happening and that's a scary thought. While the intent may be good, the result might not. :/


That sounds unsettling.

Tonyrobinson
28-06-12, 14:33
I am thrilled because I have a certain connection which I cannot really explain to help infertile families. However the thought of these children being experimented on sickens me. :o

Jester Head
28-06-12, 14:40
Sounds good to me.

I don't really get why are there people scared by this. Isn't hormonal control, chemotherapy, surgery, transfusion, drugs, well, every type of medicine just tampering with the human body? Why are you suddenly scared/unsettled by this when we've been doing this kind of stuff for hundreds(thousands?) of years?

BinRaider
28-06-12, 15:54
Sounds good to me.

I don't really get why are there people scared by this. Isn't hormonal control, chemotherapy, surgery, transfusion, drugs, well, every type of medicine just tampering with the human body? Why are you suddenly scared/unsettled by this when we've been doing this kind of stuff for hundreds(thousands?) of years?

None of that affects genetics and DNA - that is a whole different kind of thing. Those are choices. These babies haven't chosen to be born genetically modified.

lara c. fan
28-06-12, 16:00
None of that affects genetics and DNA - that is a whole different kind of thing. Those are choices. These babies haven't chosen to be born genetically modified.

I find the whole "They didn't choose this" argument a bit strange. Babies don't get to choose anything. They don't choose, for example, to be born into poverty and disease. They don't choose to have things such as Down's Syndrome, Aspergers, etc. Now, arguably, the being born into poverty and disease can't be controlled (And isn't related, I guess), but if these babies could be part of the process to eliminating various "from birth" disorders, then wouldn't the ends justify the means?

mind
28-06-12, 16:31
This is horrible... few years and we will be able to choose babies' features like ingredients on a pizza?

Dark Lugia 2
28-06-12, 16:37
I think some of you guys need to lay off the Hollywood films.

We all knew something like this would happen some day. It's nice that its been tested for women that can't conceive.

BinRaider
28-06-12, 16:47
I find the whole "They didn't choose this" argument a bit strange. Babies don't get to choose anything. They don't choose, for example, to be born into poverty and disease. They don't choose to have things such as Down's Syndrome, Aspergers, etc. Now, arguably, the being born into poverty and disease can't be controlled (And isn't related, I guess), but if these babies could be part of the process to eliminating various "from birth" disorders, then wouldn't the ends justify the means?

I consider myself a Utilitarian but I don't think the ends will ever justify the means if humans beings are used in the process. That's a crime against humanity. Then we are putting ourselves above these people. We created them in some respects so does that give us the right to control them? Some may think so. Maybe not right now but in the future when this isn't so controversial I could see this happening.

lara c. fan
28-06-12, 17:00
I consider myself a Utilitarian but I don't think the ends will ever justify the means if humans beings are used in the process. That's a crime against humanity. Then we are putting ourselves above these people. We created them in some respects so does that give us the right to control them? Some may think so. Maybe not right now but in the future when this isn't so controversial I could see this happening.

Some people insist that we should have control over various racial minorities... We just ignore them, for the most part. That can happen here too. I don't know many people that would actually insist that we have control over a human being, however it's created.

I don't think it's really a crime against humanity by modifying the genes, especially if it's for giving better quality of life. We're not really putting ourselves above them. They're humans like us. What they are is still natural. The modification technically isn't, but hey, artificial limbs aren't exactly natural either. :p

moodydog
28-06-12, 17:13
I don't really know much on this so I can't comment. But if it helps people conceive, eliminates disorders, then it cant be a bad thing? :confused:

Jester Head
28-06-12, 17:42
Some people insist that we should have control over various racial minorities... We just ignore them, for the most part. That can happen here too. I don't know many people that would actually insist that we have control over a human being, however it's created.

I don't think it's really a crime against humanity by modifying the genes, especially if it's for giving better quality of life. We're not really putting ourselves above them. They're humans like us. What they are is still natural. The modification technically isn't, but hey, artificial limbs aren't exactly natural either. :p

Exactly.

Using my surgery example from before, I don't see this differently from having some sort of disorder (bad eyesight, troubles breathing, etc) and doing surgery to correct it. The main difference is that one is done BEFORE the person is even born.
Also, the fact that it improves fertility is automatically an important boost to the quality of life of a person.

Humanity is not as rotten as some of you might think. For every person that cuts down a tree, fishes a whale or creates an atomic bomb, there are one hundred against it. You can't ignore most of the contributes humans have done, for themselves mostly, sure, for the planet itself.

BinRaider
28-06-12, 18:28
Exactly.

Using my surgery example from before, I don't see this differently from having some sort of disorder (bad eyesight, troubles breathing, etc) and doing surgery to correct it. The main difference is that one is done BEFORE the person is even born.
Also, the fact that it improves fertility is automatically an important boost to the quality of life of a person.

Humanity is not as rotten as some of you might think. For every person that cuts down a tree, fishes a whale or creates an atomic bomb, there are one hundred against it. You can't ignore most of the contributes humans have done, for themselves mostly, sure, for the planet itself.

For every 100 people against what you pointed out, only 1 will actually do something about it. It's all very well being against it but that's not enough and that's where humanity fails. We're generally a selfish species and I do not like the slippery slope that we will inevitably go down. I agree that it's good in the short run but this is just the start.