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matrix54
03-07-12, 21:54
A week ago, my friend invited me to a job offering, which was held last night. He didn't give me many details, and he said is was in New York. I thought it was retail or something small since he was so vague, and I didn't think much of it.

Later, he told me about a "business partner" of his, and I was thinking to myself "Oh, he's running a business! Good for him, that's cool, I'll help". He told me it wasn't anything all that serious - again, little to no details.

So, my friends picks me up, and takes me to the building in New York. I was thinking - a trip to New York, I get to spend time with a friend and get a job. Cool Beans.

We go to the auditorium, and they have us sit through a lecture. Within 5 minutes, I'd known what they had me sitting in on. There were various "Ooohs, and Ahhhs" in the room, with promises of money making and what not. I though, alright, I'm not big on making money to buy stupid crap, but it's good to have for college, but when he drew what was, essentially, a pyramid diagram on the board, I couldn't believe my eyes. I, honestly, felt like the only sane person in the room.

The one thing they promised was "Self employment", but they insist on listening to the person who, basically, employed you (through a tiered system of employers - look up pyramid schemes for help), and they get a percentage of what you make, and when you "hire" enough people, you get a percentage per person., which adds up to a larger profit, with no effort on your part.

Now, they keep asking me to show up to different locations and meetings, and they want me to jump and pay $115 for a conference in DC with a bunch of strangers, less than a week away, and do so by any means.

On the ride home, I mentioned to my friend that he had me sit in on a pyramid scheme, he was determined to convince me otherwise, when he'd recently joined himself. I did some research myself on Amway, and they've been accused of fraud, and things of that nature (all stuff a simple google search can get you).

One of the things my friends "boss" mentioned is putting the business first in hopes of making a 6 figure income. It was almost promised to us. When you make enough, you can buy your family back with gifts, and my friend is determined to get me to join, but I want to do the opposite. I also want to get him out before he get involved in financial issues, but I don't want him to get uspet with me, and loose me as a friend. :o

I felt disrespected during the lecture, BTW. It felt like a "invite the dumbest person you know, and make money off of them when they join", which isn't true about me at all at all, mainly because I could see the flaws in everything they were saying to me. They even threatened us a little bit, saying we were going to live a terrible life without them. I've never seen people in suits act like animals before, it was ridiculous. It was like a field of rabid "sheep". I wish I could have taped it - it was pathetic. I felt like one of the most mature people in the room.

Anyway, how do I help my friend without hurting him before he gets too deep, or get other people involved, because they want to meet with me tomorrow, and I'm leaving them.

Cochrane
03-07-12, 22:28
I'm not sure your friend can be helped at this stage; as the old saying goes, "Stupidity deserves to be punished". From the search I did, it seems that Amway isn't illegal (there have been lawsuits around this), but of course, joining is still something I wouldn't recommend anyone to do. There are several reports about the business practices of the company out there. I guess you could try to get hold of them and then show them to your friend, but whether that'll change his opinion is hard to predict.

matrix54
03-07-12, 22:33
True, they aren't illegal, but it's the way it's run. During "training", they encouraged us to buy our "own" products (they emphasize this, btw). If you buy your own products, there is no profit, you just get your money back. I think it's less, I never got the chance to really evaluate the material. It's even harder to sell it, because almost everyone I've seen would either avoid the sales people, or buy something cheap - and Amway is expensive. It doesn't seem like a winning situation for anyone.

domina
04-07-12, 02:02
Amway is basically a "legal pyramid scheme." My boyfriend looked into Primerica once, which is very similar. They ask for $200 or so upfront under the condition that it's for an insurance license; since there's a "legitimate" reason for the upfront cost (like business expenditures), it's not legally a pyramid scheme. But we all know they really are.

Chances are he'll have to learn that hard way that in most cases, it's more or less a scam. Or maybe he'll be one of the few people who actually can be really successful in that sort of sales-oriented climate.

matrix54
04-07-12, 02:17
I said it Earlier, I told him what it was. I hope me leaving will hint at what's going on. If he decided to stay, I wish him the best, but I really want him to leave and do better, or at least try to start up his own business, eventually, since I know he'll do well in that. Thank you for the response.

And, I meant it - the level of intelligence in the room was ghastly. Never let a suit fool you. :p

\Tomb Raider/
04-07-12, 03:27
A week ago, my friend invited me to a job offering, which was held last night. He didn't give me many details, and he said is was in New York. I thought it was retail or something small since he was so vague, and I didn't think much of it.

Later, he told me about a "business partner" of his, and I was thinking to myself "Oh, he's running a business! Good for him, that's cool, I'll help". He told me it wasn't anything all that serious - again, little to no details.

So, my friends picks me up, and takes me to the building in New York. I was thinking - a trip to New York, I get to spend time with a friend and get a job. Cool Beans.

We go to the auditorium, and they have us sit through a lecture. Within 5 minutes, I'd known what they had me sitting in on. There were various "Ooohs, and Ahhhs" in the room, with promises of money making and what not. I though, alright, I'm not big on making money to buy stupid crap, but it's good to have for college, but when he drew what was, essentially, a pyramid diagram on the board, I couldn't believe my eyes. I, honestly, felt like the only sane person in the room.

The one thing they promised was "Self employment", but they insist on listening to the person who, basically, employed you (through a tiered system of employers - look up pyramid schemes for help), and they get a percentage of what you make, and when you "hire" enough people, you get a percentage per person., which adds up to a larger profit, with no effort on your part.

Now, they keep asking me to show up to different locations and meetings, and they want me to jump and pay $115 for a conference in DC with a bunch of strangers, less than a week away, and do so by any means.

On the ride home, I mentioned to my friend that he had me sit in on a pyramid scheme, he was determined to convince me otherwise, when he'd recently joined himself. I did some research myself on Amway, and they've been accused of fraud, and things of that nature (all stuff a simple google search can get you).

One of the things my friends "boss" mentioned is putting the business first in hopes of making a 6 figure income. It was almost promised to us. When you make enough, you can buy your family back with gifts, and my friend is determined to get me to join, but I want to do the opposite. I also want to get him out before he get involved in financial issues, but I don't want him to get uspet with me, and loose me as a friend. :o

I felt disrespected during the lecture, BTW. It felt like a "invite the dumbest person you know, and make money off of them when they join", which isn't true about me at all at all, mainly because I could see the flaws in everything they were saying to me. They even threatened us a little bit, saying we were going to live a terrible life without them. I've never seen people in suits act like animals before, it was ridiculous. It was like a field of rabid "sheep". I wish I could have taped it - it was pathetic. I felt like one of the most mature people in the room.

Anyway, how do I help my friend without hurting him before he gets too deep, or get other people involved, because they want to meet with me tomorrow, and I'm leaving them.

OMFG...that is the same thing that happened to me today!!! my friend even joined but i had a funny feeling it was fake...it seems to easy!! and they like have meeting as everyone that is a members home. I for one new it as a lie so thank god i didnt join. ...PS i live in IOWA...its spreading :O

knightgames
04-07-12, 03:41
Been there, done that - twice.

First time was for some Amway products. I was certain what it was, but went anyway to be polite to a friend more than anything. Curious? A little. Skeptical? By the wheel barrel full.

We met at a Pancake House, and the guy bought us coffee and eggs. My friend was getting bowled over by the presentation, while I was growing more skeptical by the minute. Like you I even mentioned the pyramid illustration they use to tier employees. He was having it. He was ready to drop the $185.00 right there.

The man left for minute to wet down the cigarettes in the bottom of the toilet bowl. "Phillip. NO. It's a pyramid scheme and the only people not squished by pyramids are the people on top. You're no pharoah, and that makes you one of those that ends up being grease for those on the top. They'll gladly take your $185.00 and charge you more for what ever broken window of opportunity they manage to sell you. BUT!!!!! But you'll end up broken."

He stayed with them for about 6 months. I never asked how much he lost, but he did say he wish he listened. On a happier note...... he still has some dish detergent that works about as well as pouring water over the plates.



Second time was from a prior client who I became friends with. She wanted to sell vitamins like in the Amway scheme. I told her if I tried them and liked them I'd sell them. "Well as a such and such member you'll get product discounts. The more you buy the more you save."

Ummmmmmmmmmm............. no.


Tell your friend to RUN!!!!!!!

Barry Matharoo
04-07-12, 03:42
It has spread all the way to India :p

My uncle joined to make some extra cash and tried to coax my Father into joining. But my father was wise. My Uncle lost his investment and was stuck with all the Amway products like shampoos and face washes :p. Well atleast he had enough stock to use at home.

Its basically like a ponzi scheme. U pay money they give u products which u sell to make profit. If u make new members U will get a share of their profits. The moment u stop selling your intial investments lapses.

Tell your friend to save the money and invest it in something.

Its illegal in many countried.

More info here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme

Draco
04-07-12, 03:52
My boyfriend looked into Primerica once, which is very similar. They ask for $200 or so upfront under the condition that it's for an insurance license; since there's a "legitimate" reason for the upfront cost (like business expenditures), it's not legally a pyramid scheme. But we all know they really are.

To be fair, Primerica foots the bigger portion of the bill for the license.


As for the topic, a pyramid scheme is unsustainable without a constant influx of new blood and will eventually reach a terminally unstable point. Technically Amway and Primerica are network marketing and could stop growing right now and operate just fine.

Primerica wasn't for me, mainly because I have no passion for helping stupid people with their money problems. And I'd rather start my own business than own a franchise. But when I do life insurance or investing, I go back to Primerica.

matrix54
04-07-12, 04:17
UGH! This is so creepy. I feel like I'm being filmed for a show or something. It's so unreal. Thank you for the stories guys. It means a lot. :hug:

I'll be seeing him, and his "upline" tomorrow, and I don't want to make a scene and cause a lot of drama, but I do want to get the information to my friend as best as possible. So many people that attended the show that night are going to be hurt, it sickens me. I guess it's best to help one, than none at all, right? :o

matrix54
04-07-12, 04:55
I'm talking to my friend now as I type, and I'll gladly post up the conversation for everyone to see. Expect red flags people. :)

EmeraldFields
04-07-12, 05:02
A friend of a friend got involved in Amway and it basically consumed their life. Their life revolved around the company and trying to get friends and family to join the company. It's almost cult-like in some aspects...

Watch this:

ot31XhgE_XE

matrix54
04-07-12, 05:46
Thank you. I'll post the chat soon.

one thing my friend said really stuck out to me: "We're still friends, right?"

I'm sitting here trying to help him, but he's telling me exactly what everyone said. This is really scary stuff, and i'm really worried about him.

He also told me to phone the BBB, which I've seen multiple time posted on a site YEARS ago promoting Amway. I think something serious is going on.

Edit: I was almost driven to tears hearing all of this, I kid you not. My friends on Facebook know I'm a hard ass, but it hurts seeing somone get sucked into all this, and you try, but they just wont leave. The conversation itself gave me panic attacks because the **** that he said was **** I'd seen somewhere else. I think they give them drugs or something. They also gave me CDs, but I'm afraid to listen to them, becuase they might hvae something in them. I just can't... please read.


Stop "working" for Amway.

wat

Stop working for Amway.

y

Because I did some research, and you'll basically make little to no real money working for them.

how good was ur research
dont tell me u went 2 you tube
or google

I did a general internet search, and it basically told me stuff I expected to see. I actually talked to a few people online who told me stuff I already expect to hear when I sat down during the lecture. It's not good business, and it sucks because they've been doing this **** for years.

well sir ive seen success in this buisness with my own eyes... andd dose people u talked to havent stuck around long enough to really know what they r talking about i dont take advice from people that have fail

Tell me exactly what you've seen with your own eyes. Not movie clips and photos - I mean legit seen and heard.

i just got payed this month

How much?

thats not the point the point is i got a check in the mail for doing the work in my business

No, actually, that is the point. How much did you make?

listin if u dont believe this could work for you than that cool but its workin for me did u not notice all that success in the room last night? that wasnt fake did you see how excited we all were? you did stay 4 the traning
did you think that was all made up

I was skeptical. I would like proof before I waste me time.
And hour lecture and a meeting isn't enough for me to jump on the hype train, sorry.

the people that didnt follow through with the buisness thata the people that say it dosent work cuz they failed themselve

I'm not talking about them, I'm talking about you.

that fine then i invited you to come to another met

Why would I go to another meeting?

so u can see wat we r all about

I saw already lol

well they are not all the same

Which is why I'm asking you question personally, like I did them.

i wont take u to see that same thing

we has something called pase u should come to

XXXX, I'm not going.
I'm trying to help you.

okay thats awesome

Honestly, if I thought it was legit, would I be bothering you about all of this?
Did you research the company yourself, you did you do exactly what Adam told you to do?

same here i would be wastin ur time

And I don't want you wasting yours.

check the better buisness bureal

Have you checked anything else?

and the federal trade commission

Also, have you questioned the "business" itself?
How is it that everyone who works for Amway retire after working for only 5 years, regardless of work.

nope cuz i know it works like i said ive seen the successs remember ray the guy u met

Yeah. What about him?

andy

Alright, what about Andy?
Hiding information from me doesn't make the situation look any better.

wat r u talking bout hiding info
no one is hidin

You just mentioned names, but no assets.
What did you see?
As well as your pay.

i saw checks

I haven't seen anything myself.
A check is nothing more than paper - proves nothing.

did u even listin to the cd s
he gave yo u

Why should I?
Give me a good reason to.

it could clear some of your question that u have really ur not even givin it a shot your cutting ur self short

Tell me how much you got paid.
Your pay shouldn't be an issue, so why not tell me?

does it matter if i say 4 buck 0r 50

Yes, it does. How much did you get paid.

my first month staring out i made about 15bucks just learning but am building up the buisness to make more
its all a learning process

How much did you spend?

i saved it

How much did you spend?

i just told you i saved the money

On product they want you to buy and sell?

its a chioce if u want to buy or to sell u dont have to sell

So where does the income come from?

if u really understood the plan then ull know

I want to see if you do, because I do, actually. Where did your money come from. Did you spend anything?

okay so if you didnt understand let do this just answer me a few questions
do you brush your teeth ? with toothpaste and a brush
simple
yes or a no

I listed to the lecture last night in full. He asked the exact same question, you don't have to repeat it to me.

am just say
ing

From that question, I'm going to assume you purchased from the company.
How much did you spend?

u buy from your own buisnness cuz ur a buisness owner....so y not buy things from ur own buisness and get payed for it toothpaste only cost 4bucks

What else did you buy?
There's no way in hell they'd charge 4 bucks for toothpaste, take off 33% and give you back 15. What else?

wat dose it matter i have costumer that buy from my website a

How many? And How much?

listin am not here to convince you of anything i see this is not 4 u so its okay trust me am not at all botherd

Oh, and how much do you make from your downline, and how much goes sup?
It's not about me right now, it's about you.

am fine i dont know wat u heard or how u talked to but they really got u

I knew it was wrong when I sat down, actually.
Until you show me some concrete proof, I'll forever be worried about the situation.

well ur not letting me do so i strongly suggested 4 u to come to pase with me but i said no so i cant help you
there is nothing i can tell you now that will change ur mind ontill u see it 4 ur self

You haven't tried, actually. When ever I ask you a question, you avoid it, and when you give answers, they sound generic as hell.

like come with me and seee it

I told you, I'm not here for me, I'm for you.

well am telling ive been in this long enough to know this works and i works for me ....thank you 4 ur concern but they is nothing in ur power u can do to get me away from what am doing
nothing

It doesn't work.

the awsome
no hard feeling right
we are still freind
friend right

Actually, yes, I'm trying to help you.

thank you 4 the concern
really thank you

That's exactly what Adam told me...

whos adam

I could have sworn his name was Adam...

andy
?


Oh! XD
He still said that to me. I wouldn't recommend turning your friends and family Aside for a few dollars.

okay so ama head to bed sir i had a long day but u can hit me up when ever you would like

For your Hard work you've made 15 dollars. They have you going all over out of pockets paying for **** and you'll never see any of the profits. Should you ever get a job, you can't use Amway as a past employeer, regardless of hardwork because their is no contract invovled at all. Your pay is purely commission. They promise you wealth, but you'll never get it because they only people making money are the people who work on the upline.

DO NOT DO THIS!

i dont know where u got this but u havent been in the buisness to know wat is this is really bout

You don't even have any business experience yourself? Why on EARTH would they "hire" someone with no professional experience to market the company? The only reason they hired you is to make money for themselves!

they dont have me working......

And actually I was involved in something like this before.

i wasnt hired

^Then what are you getting payed for? Why are you wasting your time?

u dont know wat ur talkin bout

Actually, I do.

do u see how am not asking u to please join please cuz u make the chioce to join

Why do you keep begging me to join when I'm begging you to leave, and telling you it's no good for you!?

look its okay

Did they drug you?

thats funnny

That wasn't a yes or no?

michael its okay

I don't believe it. I didn't believe it then, and not now.

dont worry am not bother u with this

Leave, XXXX.

its okay if u dont believe
am not upset

Even if you think everything I'm saying is bull****, at least look it up for yourself.
Amway isn't all sparkes. They've done **** business as well!
Look it up yourself!
How did they even get a hold of you anyway?

10.9 billion is not **** buisness u really need to do ur proper reaserch
cuz ur not

That's the good, did they tell you the bad?

i would love 4 u to call the better buisness burea

Like how IBOs sure for fraud.
Someone else said that same **** YEARS ago when I was doing research. XXXX, get the **** out now!

okay let me tell u this to reasearch on walmart walgreens cascos, corados
see if you find negative bout that

I've seen the same **** there...

0o0 search google

How long have you been with them?
AND DON'T PARADE AROUND THE ANSWER!

everything has negavite things writin bout there buisness so dose that mean ur never going to wall into a walgren or walmart again
u have ur mind set

HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN WITH THEM!?

it dosent matter

Yes the **** it does!

goodnight am happy
thats wat matters
happiness

It wont last long.
Get well, I guess.

thanks

Good nigth.

nihgt
nite

Soul
04-07-12, 07:15
First of all: You really seem like the best friend he could be asking for, but he seems to be too brainwashed to realise it atm.

Having read the full discussion, I have to say, that I'm almost sure, that he has to learn it the hard way though...I mean, he seems to really believe everything they told him and (what's even worse) already talks like one of them, gives no answers to any questions about money and denies the fact, that he didn't make any money yet...

matrix54
04-07-12, 07:43
I appreciate the concern. I'm up reading about all of this, and it's terrible. I the equivalent to a cult, or dare I say, some religions. They scare into joining them, and it's a scary thought how some can be so week.

It's funny, because I don't want to be his friend. How horrible would it be of me to have him try to get me involved, and I'm trying to get myself out, and I just leave him there. I don't know what to do, really, but I'm going to try to get him out. If we remains "friends" after that or not, it doesn't matter, but I'm not gonna leave him there.That'd be inhuman of me.

I don't think I can do it, but that's not gonna stop me form trying. :o

XtremeJenn
04-07-12, 07:44
Theres nothing more you can do for him. Literally. He's been completely brainwashed by the promises of big money. The only thing you can do is walk away from it. He will regret it later on and tell you all about how right you were but theres nothing you can do to change his mind right now. :/

matrix54
04-07-12, 07:48
That really hurts to hear. I don't want to leave him there to suffer, because outside of me, no one else he knows is involved, or even know, outside of those I told. He has no one in that regard, and I'd feel responsible for letting him slip into the hole. I don't want him to regret it when he too far gone. :(

Barry Matharoo
04-07-12, 08:21
Sometimes all u can do is give advice and wait. Because if u will push further it will spoil the relationship. Let him make the mistake and learn from it. That way if he ever needs emotional support U will be the first one he will call seeing as u guys are BFF's.

knightgames
04-07-12, 08:31
At the vitamin sales representative meeting I attended they lined up four or five people describing the two fold success they experienced - some even praising the benefits of the pills as a cure all to everything that ailed them. It's slick. This vitamin sales even had half hour long infomercials. They do a lot of fast talking to look legit (I don't mean illegal - I mean like a legit company that looks like a ground level/breaking opportunity). The peole giving the speeches are careful plants or the very few who do rake in the cash. Right about now, they see you as a dollar sign. That's about it.

It's been mentioned that these types of sales venues have a cult like status. True. They pick on the desperate and needy..... Most come to their senses when they realize that their friends and family shun them at the door because they don't want to listen to the 'born again' spiel the cult member spews. It usually only costs a couple hundred bucks and their dignity. Tough lesson, but one they won't forget.

Sgt BOMBULOUS
04-07-12, 13:38
My brother somehow managed to get conned into these things twice... The first time with Herbalife, the second time with some clowns called "International Profit Associates". I think the easiest way to identify these things is: If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is! And promising a 6 figure income to an unskilled worker (which my brother was) is just that. It's a shame these things are allowed to continue.

The Great Chi
04-07-12, 14:34
In these days of the recession everyone is out to con you, so think twice before parting with what money you have.

matrix54
04-07-12, 15:14
Thank you for the response everyone. They truly mean a lot to me. :hug:

I think I know what's causing the "damage". It's the CDs they have you listen to over and over, and/or the exclusion of your old family for a new one. This job would probably be his "life," and they said money "on the side".

Poor thing.

BinRaider
04-07-12, 15:16
Didn't "My Family" do an episode on Amway? It must be widely known scam if it's an episode in a popular SitCom.

matrix54
04-07-12, 15:21
Is that an American show? I don't think I've heard of it. Honestly, I never even knew Amway was a scam until I got there. I was also tantalized by the stories of wealth and success, but in the back of mind, I knew what a pyramid scheme was, legal or not. He probably didn't know, or did, but they convinced him otherwise.

BinRaider
04-07-12, 15:27
Is that an American show? I don't think I've heard of it. Honestly, I never even knew Amway was a scam until I got there. I was also tantalized by the stories of wealth and success, but in the back of mind, I knew what a pyramid scheme was, legal or not. He probably didn't know, or did, but they convinced him otherwise.

No it's a really funny British show. Basically one of the main characters is the father or the family, Ben, who is very self-centred and greedy and decides to join the Amway through a friend that he secretly hates because he made loads of money and his wife, Susan, who usually scoffs at his silly ideas, decides to get in on it too but then they find out that they make no money at all and they try to scam the idea off to other people so they'll buy their crap to sell it on etc. I'll just say that it doesn't work out.

One of my mottos is always "If it looks too good to be true then it probably is."

matrix54
04-07-12, 15:33
And this certainly was.

No one just ups and retires are 21. If it was that easy everyone would be doing it.

matrix54
04-07-12, 21:39
I'm happy to report that I'm free from these money grabbing bastards.

Sadly, my friend is still with them, and one of my other friends told me that a few of my old classmates from High School joined last year, and tried to get him to join, and they tried to get one of my other friends as well.

Wishing the ones I can't get in contact with well, but for my closest friend, I'm gonna work on him. Also, I'm gonna check these CDs out, and see what's up with them. :pi:

matrix54
22-09-12, 18:49
Just when I thought he left them alone, he's STILL WITH THEM! I can't even begin to wrap my head around how he thinks this'll work out for him. Anyone got any bright ideas - he really thinks he's going to make millions off this tried, broken system.

MiCkiZ88
22-09-12, 19:41
Just when I thought he left them alone, he's STILL WITH THEM! I can't even begin to wrap my head around how he thinks this'll work out for him. Anyone got any bright ideas - he really thinks he's going to make millions off this tried, broken system.
He should join the team I am with if he wants to make millions and leave that crap pyramid structure ;) Just tell him you know someone who ACTUALLY makes money out of selling stuff. :p I am however not allowed to advertise my company...

matrix54
22-09-12, 20:01
Sounds shady. :pi:

Sgt BOMBULOUS
22-09-12, 20:03
Sometimes people just have to crash and burn in order to learn a lesson. That's the way it was with my brother, unfortunately...

Spong
22-09-12, 20:08
Sometimes people just have to crash and burn in order to learn a lesson.

That.
He's shown you how much he's not listened to you. That's his choice, and you can't be accused of not trying to warn/help him.

Reggie
22-09-12, 20:13
Sounds shady. :pi:
Indeed.

MiCkiZ88
22-09-12, 20:17
Sounds shady. :pi:
Obviously! :D That's why should never trust a stranger in the internet promising you wealth and glory, because most of the things they try to drag you in to are just to get themselves a better position and to get a bonus. After that they just leave you there clueless of what to do. That's why you should always research what you are getting in to and meet with the people as well as their supervisors, get to know the team and look at their plan.

I am lucky enough to be in a team that actually works, and it's not a pyramid. It's a living breathing organization that works in teams.

matrix54
22-09-12, 21:11
That's the funny part about Amway. It DOES work. You make money, get paid, etc. The trick is is that you spend so much time working with them (when they say it's not a job) that you ignore everything else, for a small piece of change.

Like I said earlier, his Paycheck was all of $15. Keep in mind, they had him spend more money to go to some event, and then more for another, and, of course, you have to sell the image, so you shell out for that, so that $15 did nothing for him. At all.

And, of course, if you don't listen, and your not in the circle, they ignore you, and no one wants that, so you spend time in the inner circle... it's not good at all.

If only he'd step back for a few moments and do the very simple math. :o

He wont make more than $20,000 yr., and that's if her works him tail off - and I mean WORK. People on welfare make more than that. By that logic, he might as well work at a minimum wage job, less hours, more pay. And when he does make that 20,000, a small percent age goes to his upline. There's not telling how many downlines his upline has got, so he's sitting back raking in cash. And, when you do that logic, and how there things work, he has to give a percentage of his cash to someone up top (I met my friend upline, actually. All smiles. He was GORGEOUS though, but that's off topic) Very friendly. Of course, that's how they real you in).

The entire system is legal. Barely. It's basically a bunch of people leaching off of each other. The problem is, the higher up you go, the more you make, so the man on top is sitting nice in pretty doing nothing, while his cult member line his pockets. :(

MiCkiZ88
22-09-12, 21:22
I feel for the guy. :/ I dont even need to put massive amount of effort in to my business to be fair.. I dont have to go to events, I don't have to impress anyone. I just spread the word, make a few sales on the side and my job is done. My supervisors even ADVICED me not to work my ass off and make it a full time job because it will drive you CRAZY. That's why I have another job on the side of this networking.

matrix54
22-09-12, 21:24
What do you eve do? :confused:

MiCkiZ88
22-09-12, 21:31
What do you eve do? :confused:
I'm not allowed to talk in public about what company I work for, but I basially just bought a licence to sell internationally contracts for cheapest deals on a wide range of products you use everyday. I just spread the word and lead people to my website or teammates websites if they need some points as the higher the points the better the commission percentage.

matrix54
22-09-12, 21:39
Sounds shady. :pi:

jackali
22-09-12, 21:41
I think it's a shame you haven't been able to help your friend escape this cult. Hopefully, in time, he'll learn that he's just wasting time and money.

MiCkiZ88
22-09-12, 21:44
Sounds shady. :pi:
Naturally. The first question I always get if this is some pyramid scheme, but once I explain that some guy 4 levels down in your downline can become wealthier than you they usually shut up.

matrix54
22-09-12, 21:54
Multilevel marketing works that way. It's a legal workaround to the pyramid scheme format. Everything I've heard so far is the same as the situation my friend is in, except you're encouraged to do less work.

Yep. You've been had, my friend. If there's an "upline" and a "downline" and your selling stuff (whatever the product), and you're encouraged to recruit people, and you encourage them to do the same, it's nowhere you need to be. ;)

MiCkiZ88
22-09-12, 21:58
Multilevel marketing works that way. It's a legal workaround to the pyramid scheme format. Everything I've heard so far is the same as the situation my friend is in, except you're encouraged to do less work.

Yep. You've been had, my friend. If there's an "upline" and a "downline" and your selling stuff (whatever the product), and you're encouraged to recruit people, and you encourage them to do the same, it's nowhere you need to be. ;)
Except I actually make money, every month I make more as it grows and I'm not paying for anything :p

matrix54
22-09-12, 22:00
You can make money with Amway.

What was your last paycheck, your uplines', what percentage does your upline get from his/her downs, and how many downs does your up have? :pi:

Draco
23-09-12, 00:55
I'm not allowed to talk in public about what company I work for, but I basially just bought a licence to sell internationally contracts for cheapest deals on a wide range of products you use everyday. I just spread the word and lead people to my website or teammates websites if they need some points as the higher the points the better the commission percentage.

Procurement is serious business.

domino92
23-09-12, 02:03
You want to get your friend out? Share the horror stories! Tell your friend what you've learned here.

These types of things sound like the Jehova's Witnesses of the business world. It's obviously not safe, and your friend should get out before he begins to develop a loss. Just explain the facts to him, explain what the business type is, and how dangerous and risky it is. It sounds like some kind of religion. I've never attended these types of presentations, I want to, just to experience the stupidity of it. Get your friend out if you can, but if he decides this is a foolproof fan to make money, then he's doomed to be stuck in that. These plans require dupes to work, and your friend has been duped.

matrix54
23-09-12, 04:40
I wouldn't recommend going to any of them, but you can watch one online. You probably couldn't go anyway, since you have to be invited. And, of course you can't talk about it.

I knew it was a scam they minute they started talking, but they have a way with words. I nearly bought in to all of this myself, but I was smart enough to leave. :o



Also, he wont talk to me. At all. I made a comment on Facebook (About this very subject), and he deleted it, as if I was lying.. :rolleyes:

jackles
23-09-12, 14:22
Years ago my ex husband got suckered into Amway. They sell the idea of being great buddies and making money is sooooooo easy. Well it is if you have the correct mindset. (Stepford wives comes to mind) Of course sadly for him he had me as a wife and of course I am as anti-selling and cheesey crap as you can get. I hate people at my house. Nooooooo home meetings for me. And of course we had friends who were equally as anti. My ex was told by the couple who had introduced him to it that he had to convince me how great it was......epic fail.


It just died a dainty death as he managed zero sales.

matrix54
02-10-12, 19:44
He got a check. Apparently, he's living the dream. Now, I'm arguing with me again, and he's calling me negative.

Personally, I don't care if he hates me for it for the rest of his life, I just want him out.

Cochrane
02-10-12, 19:48
Of course he likes it after the first check comes in. That's not unusual for pyramid schemes. The question is how much he'll like it six months or a year from now, when it has either gone belly-up or turned into a lot of hard, underpaid work.

From what I hear, I don't think you'll be able to convince him of that, though. Sometimes, stupidity has to be punished, I'm afraid.

matrix54
02-10-12, 19:59
This has gone well beyond stupidity. It's really starting to piss me off. I just want to slap him so can realize what he's doing.

Cochrane
02-10-12, 20:12
If slapping people made them less stupid, I'd be a very violent man. As it is, I think your best bet is to ignore it, if he tries to recruit you say "no" very firmly, and when he realizes that it was a bad idea, shout "I told you so" (that last part is optional).

lara c. fan
02-10-12, 20:23
If slapping people made them less stupid, I'd be a very violent man. As it is, I think your best bet is to ignore it, if he tries to recruit you say "no" very firmly, and when he realizes that it was a bad idea, shout "I told you so" (that last part is optional).

Optional? Nay, it is a requirement!

matrix54
02-10-12, 20:25
He tried to recruit me. Me and his upline had meetings and everything. He called, and I eventually told him no. My friend doesn't even talk to me anymore, unless I'm being "negative" toward him and he tells me to stop doing so.

It's very upsetting, because prior to this whole fiasco, I hadn't spoken to him in a while prior either, and it was nice catching up. How much fun "catching up" has turned out to be. :(

matrix54
02-10-12, 20:44
He blocked me from Facebook, so I can't keep tabs on him anymore. :(

Draco
02-10-12, 23:42
He is doing you a favor.

Cochrane
02-10-12, 23:58
I don't often agree with Draco, but he has a point: You're way past the point where you can convince your friend otherwise. If this was something illegal or a dangerous cult, you could try calling the police or a psychiatrist, but that's not the case here. If you try to push your friend more, he'll only see it as you being hostile towards his decisions, and stick with them even more. Obsessing over him now isn't going to make you happy and it isn't going to change his opinion. This is a lesson he'll have to learn for himself, painful as it may be for you to watch.

matrix54
03-10-12, 03:55
It doesn't matter what I want or feel anymore, he's blocked me, so I can't do anything.

Hell, I can't even say hello to him anymore without him think something wrong. :(