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View Full Version : Is classic Lara similar to a black girl with white skin?


dinne
13-01-17, 12:39
I was modeling a 3D classic Lara, when a friend told me:"She seems Michael Jackson!".
And yes, it's true: https://i.imgur.com/fQvvshq.jpg

In fact, while modeling and studying her topology on her models (fmv, in game and AOD, with a bit of realism imagined), I was thinking that her eye's shape is more typically the one of a black person, lips too with also the large cupid's bow, and proportions too (short nose, distance between nose and mouth, large eyes), compared to a british person. Nostrils are really thin in her case, and so we obtain come similarities with Michael Jackson.

Maybe this resemblance comes by the fact that in the first concepts she was a southern american girl (Laura Cruz), isn't it? They simply changed the skin tone from Cruz to Croft and nothing more else of her face, I think.
Of course white people that are similar to Lara exist, but, I mean, her topology has more typical similarities with typical blacks (from western Africa or Middle/South America), except for her nose that is very thin. The eye's shape is the first thing. Just examine some girls with typical eyes: https://i.imgur.com/fmf6Dx6.jpg - https://i.imgur.com/tDMQIDA.jpg - https://i.imgur.com/AoLRrmZ.jpg - https://i.imgur.com/ZcAEizd.jpg

You see that these eyes are... spaced between them, and "more opened" on their respective external part and the lid tends to cover a part of the iris, that gives a sensual sight.
What do you think about? Is her topology a sign of her previous concept?

redfox45
13-01-17, 12:54
Well the original reasoning as i've heard it is 2 fold

1. Toby was a fan of comic books and Lara in her concept drawings was modeled after the exaggerated figure and features of a comic book heroine.

2. At the early stage of polygonal modeling technology subtlety was a hard thing to pull off and she would have looked like a man if they didn't give her...what she had. Hence the infamous eye gougers lol.

I think that at that stage her being a female was a big deal and Toby wanted to make sure that was not lost on anyone.

ThatSassyKid
13-01-17, 13:07
what the ****...
Classic Lara's features are weird because of the technical restrictions lol

VictorXD
13-01-17, 13:26
^ not really. Classic Lara has very exotic features for a caucasian woman. I wouldn't say she looks black but a really pale latina with auburn hair.

_Doppie_
13-01-17, 13:32
Definitely not british for sure.

Love2Raid
13-01-17, 13:37
I've always thought this. Especially the TR2 version, where she has a particularly dark tan. Mixed race, at the very least.

larafan25
13-01-17, 13:46
I say yes, but, also no.

While, based on my experience of learning Lara's face, the TRU face is rather accurate to a more realistically-proportioned Lara face, maintaining the spacial relationships as much as possible. She certainly doesn't come off as all that black-ish.

But in her true, exaggerated, stylized visuals, her nose is so small that her lips and eyes become very large. As well, the absence of any dramatic eyelids in her FMV model and most in-game textures, with a high-brow, gives this look too.

I would say, based on my personal experience, with a good nose contour your more likely to find a black woman looking like Lara Croft, if you go by typical or generalized features.

That being said, I have seen a dutch man in an image once, who had the perfect curvature and flatness of Lara's nose, as well as a somewhat similar eyelid scenario going on, and so maybe there is more to this look than we know.

As for what causes her to look this way, it's design hunny. Real, true, deliberate design, and she is flawless.

http://i.imgur.com/UbSzx1O.jpg

Dennis's Mom
13-01-17, 14:05
Given the time frame Lara was created, the limited abilities of PCs to render graphics, and the various individuals who no doubt were involved in presenting Lara, I think it's fair to expect lots of variations in how Lara is presented.

I think looking at any image and reading any intention other than the stated background for Lara is reading too much into it.

dinne
13-01-17, 15:17
I don't think that polygons afflicted so much the ethnicity of her face, she's a caricature and they put the accent on some facial traits, and also in AOD she's always recognizeably the same Lara even if with more polygons, same for fmv Lara in TR4-5, and same in the comics http://www.wikiraider.com/index.php/Lara_Croft_(Top_Cow_Comics)
I think that she was intentionally made in that way...

Lyle Croft
13-01-17, 15:46
She always looked like a mix between Filipina/Mediterranean/Italian/Latina mix to me. :ton:

Hence why I found her relatable. :ton:

Idk, she just looked so exotic. Hell even in the CGI Reboot trailer there was something exotic about her.

But in-game she looked sickly and un-Lara compared to previous models. With the definitive edition...it was alright but she looked too "white"? (I don't know how to phrase it)

Rise well...she looks pretty "white" idk how to explain it.

Dustie
13-01-17, 16:14
People can have different features, and at times they might have the kind of features that are rare among the (race?) group they come from, like white people having full, plumpy lips or black people having slim noses, maybe that's what they were going for - making her look special. But I also think Lara's features are really an outcome of all sorts of factors. Quite likely they were just trying to "make a girl" when shaping her model in the 3D program, so they made her look whatever they thought was going to make people recognize that it's a girl, hence the large lips, the thick eyebrows, the small nose... You know, "girlish" features.

peeves
13-01-17, 17:30
Classic lara has similarities to a man since she is strong and an olympian like a certain man is.

Sgt BOMBULOUS
13-01-17, 17:53
Michael Jackson's face didn't really resemble that of any true human at the time that picture was taken, so I guess it is comparable to a (at the time) mediocre 3D rendering of a human face. But I sure am perplexed as to why there needs to be any association with a black girl...

larafan25
13-01-17, 18:12
Michael Jackson's face didn't really resemble that of any true human at the time that picture was taken, so I guess it is comparable to a (at the time) mediocre 3D rendering of a human face. But I sure am perplexed as to why there needs to be any association with a black girl...

People's understanding and expectations of faces are limited to the faces they have seen and know of, and the logic they form because of these faces.

As well, Laura Cruz was South American at one point, so maybe similar in race and characteristics.

__________________________________________________ _______

Why are people making it out like Core just plopped some googly eyes onto a potato-head and called it Lara Croft? She has a consistent, distinct appearance between Tomb Raider 1 and AOD. Being a realistic, human woman is not a part of that appearance.

peeves
13-01-17, 18:43
Her appearance between 1 and AOD looked real.

Horus-Goddess
13-01-17, 21:08
I'd agree to an extent. But I think it is like you say, how she was originally South American. Far as I know they already had the 3D model done for her before making her "Lara Croft" instead of "Laura Cruz".

Though personally I can't say I really ever thought about it. Being mixed race myself, Lara always looked that way to me as well. Even if her backstory doesn't support that at all, that's just sort of what came across to me visually. I always liked her more tanned model myself (like some of the promo art for TR2).

To be completely honest, I have always liked her Top Cow design (Andy Park) (https://format-com-cld-res.cloudinary.com/image/private/s--sJNlhMG3--/c_limit,g_center,h_550,w_65535/a_auto,fl_keep_iptc.progressive,q_95/163596-10306147-02TR_jpg.jpg) a lot better than any of the official 3D promo models. She was a bit too caricature for me, and facially sometimes she looked rather ghastly if I dare say. I think it does have to do with the disproportionate nose, which in turn makes everything else look so huge. But I also know that 3D graphics at the time were still quite young and they only had so much to work with. Using exaggerated shapes seemed to get the idea across better.

I always found myself liking Lara's in-game model far more than the promo renders to be honest. She looked prettier, somehow.

I will add though, AOD Lara (https://carrielachance.com/wp-content/uploads/tomb-raider-angel-of-darkness/LaraAngel1.jpg) was to me, the perfect balance. I wouldn't change her at all. :)

larafan25
13-01-17, 21:35
AOD Lara's nose is essentially as pinched as it's ever been (taking facial poses into account).

I think, for most people who express a lack of satisfaction with classic Lara's appearance, experience this more-so because of the sharpness of the polygons and the lighting. With much smoother surfaces, realistic lighting and materials, she wouldn't appear so harsh. :ponder:

Horus-Goddess
13-01-17, 21:55
AOD Lara's nose is essentially as pinched as it's ever been (taking facial poses into account).

I think, for most people who express a lack of satisfaction with classic Lara's appearance, experience this more-so because of the sharpness of the polygons and the lighting. With much smoother surfaces, realistic lighting and materials, she wouldn't appear so harsh. :ponder:

Yeah, probably. AOD Lara was especially pretty in Rise with all those shaders and things.

Maybe I should specify it was TR4 renders that really put me off. Not always the ones before it. Something about that one just looked more... "caveman-ish" for lack of a better term. Especially the young Lara renders that everyone likes to make fun of. :p

larafan25
13-01-17, 21:59
Yeah, probably. AOD Lara was especially pretty in Rise with all those shaders and things.

Maybe I should specify it was TR4 renders that really put me off. Not always the ones before it. Something about that one just looked more... "caveman-ish" for lack of a better term. Especially the young Lara renders that everyone likes to make fun of. :p

Mhm, there is something about TR4 Lara that is odd-looking, or different looking from the previous models.

She does seem to feature a lot smoother surfaces in FMV form than she did before. Maybe this causes her to look weird.

The space between her nose and mouth does seem to get bigger in TR4. Though maybe it's an illusion. :ponder:

peeves
14-01-17, 00:27
As different as TR4 and 5 lara look they don't look as odd as other models do.

OkraBrueder
26-02-17, 02:50
I'd love a black Lara tbh would be up for it in any fan related project

Boobandie
26-02-17, 03:43
Not really. It's mostly just a combination of Toby's art style (thick exaggerated features and manga inspiration) and the tech restrictions of the time. Classic Lara's FMV model was, I believe, to be modified from an existing female model that came with 3D Studio back in the early 90's. It's why Lara and Natla look so similar.

For her looking exotic, Catherine Zeta Jones wouldn't look out of place in the Mediterranean but she's Welsh. She may still have been modified from an earlier build of Laura Cruz, but Lara still looks British.

Trenton
26-02-17, 08:14
She spends a lot of time across the world in different climates and environments so it's only natural that she gets a tan. So in some renders she's tanned and in others she is pale. I don't understand why this is so hard for people to grasp.


http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l51/michaeltrenton/LaraCroft_1997render2_zpsba9a6712.jpg (http://s93.photobucket.com/user/michaeltrenton/media/LaraCroft_1997render2_zpsba9a6712.jpg.html)http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l51/michaeltrenton/LaraCroft_1997render_zps3a78199e.jpg (http://s93.photobucket.com/user/michaeltrenton/media/LaraCroft_1997render_zps3a78199e.jpg.html)

Heckler
26-02-17, 08:39
Pretty normal for a white girl from the 90's. :p

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/46/6c/a0/466ca0daddb2547d05da71351930474b.jpg

charmedangelin
26-02-17, 17:50
Do we really need a thread about Lara's race? I'm black and I honestly don't understand why we suddenly need to change the race of every character. Lara is fine who she is, maybe her friend Amalia could be another Tomb Raider, just leave Lara Croft alone. Last time we talked about her race she was being accused of being xenophobic, seriously just stop.

Lillie
26-02-17, 17:56
^Nobody wants to change her race. They are just discussing her exotic features. She does look exotic to me...

charmedangelin
26-02-17, 21:22
^Nobody wants to change her race. They are just discussing her exotic features. She does look exotic to me...

Indeed Lara Croft is very beautiful. :)

New Dwight
26-02-17, 21:34
This is EXACTLY why I made the change from Aaliyah to Lara in Mist: Resurrection.
Guess, I was seeing too much of Lara in Aaliyah, and elements didn't make sense.

A black Lara though? Hell naw; if I wanted to see and play a black female I would've kept Aaliyah.

Do we really need a thread about Lara's race? I'm black and I honestly don't understand why we suddenly need to change the race of every character. Lara is fine who she is, maybe her friend Amalia could be another Tomb Raider, just leave Lara Croft alone. Last time we talked about her race she was being accused of being xenophobic, seriously just stop.

Seconded.

xtimz
26-02-17, 21:47
Classic lara has similarities to a man since she is strong and an olympian like a certain man is.

So, she is transgender. :D
BTW: In conclusion, Lara Croft was originally a black male, trans-gendered and trans-colored to a white female.

Melonie Tomb Raider
27-02-17, 06:55
Lara progressively started looking more white as the games continued, but TR1 Lara especially didn't look white imo. Being as she was intended to be Spanish and her model never changed, I'm sure that explains it.

I loved her exotic features imo - I wish they didn't make her more white.

Also I'm of British and Spanish origin (and other mixes but mostly those) and I've been told I look like Michael Jackson since forever xD

TR-Freak
27-02-17, 07:52
Isn't Lara a Lesbian Black Transgender yet? SJWs surely want that.


http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l51/michaeltrenton/LaraCroft_1997render2_zpsba9a6712.jpg


wtf, her body is tanned, but her head is pale :vlol:

lance6439
27-02-17, 11:55
Isn't Lara a Lesbian Black Transgender yet? SJWs surely want that.:

I've never heard of people wanting this. Ever.

scion05
27-02-17, 11:57
She spends a lot of time across the world in different climates and environments so it's only natural that she gets a tan. So in some renders she's tanned and in others she is pale. I don't understand why this is so hard for people to grasp.


http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l51/michaeltrenton/LaraCroft_1997render2_zpsba9a6712.jpg (http://s93.photobucket.com/user/michaeltrenton/media/LaraCroft_1997render2_zpsba9a6712.jpg.html)http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l51/michaeltrenton/LaraCroft_1997render_zps3a78199e.jpg (http://s93.photobucket.com/user/michaeltrenton/media/LaraCroft_1997render_zps3a78199e.jpg.html)

Her hair is so clearly auburn as well, something that was phased out by the time TR4 came around... bizarre.

Revenge
27-02-17, 12:19
I always wondered why are her lips brown. Lipstick ? Tanned ? Or is it just the remain, like her tanned skin, of the latino origins that Toby Gard thought about first before making her English ?

Edit : But, tbh, there is no problem with her being tanned a lot and being British, considering how much time she spends out there in the sun adventuring & stuff.

Melonie Tomb Raider
27-02-17, 21:57
Lara's lips were brown because brown lipstick was very much in style. It's recently come back in style too :p