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Caba
10-09-18, 08:42
I just wanted to ask you which Tomb Raider games do you prefer (retro or modern) and why.

I personally prefer the old ones because they are more challenging and they have more places to explore...

Give me your opinion!

Samz
10-09-18, 08:58
I just wanted to ask you which Tomb Raider games do you prefer (retro or modern) and why.

I personally prefer the old ones because they are more challenging and they have more places to explore...

Give me your opinion!

I'm sure nothing will go wrong.

Retro (assuming Classics/LAU) because:

Vehicles.
Actual Challenge,
More open environments instead of constant disguised hallways and therefore more immersive environments.
Worthwhile secrets.
Ammo/Medpack conservation.
I actually like Lara in them.
No survivor instinct/mantadory hints except for Legend and they were less annoying there.
Better weapon/enemy Variety.
Good Storyline and cutscene direction.
Rare/no CINEMATIC sequences that restrict control.
Actual dangerous traps.
LAU looks great.
Hidden switches/Keys.
More interesting, unique and fun Acrobatic combat system.
Better voice acting and Script.
Not trying to be EDGY or overdramatic.
More interesting Locations.
Jumping isn't automated (Classics) or significantly less automated (LAU) so there's an element of skill there and room to fail.

Caba
10-09-18, 09:08
I agree in everything you said, that's a pretty cool and complete answer! Thanks

Muhammad
10-09-18, 09:15
I'm a huge fan of the classics, but time moves on and unfortunately the games have aged. What I wish for right now is a TR3 remake using the Rise/Shadow Engine holy ****!

Nigel Cassidy
10-09-18, 09:44
I like typical old-fashioned Indiana Jonesian adventures about going to exotic locations and finding the treasure before the bad guys do. The LAU games in my opinion best reflect that. Also because I like the Lara from these games the best: adventurous, upper class, glamorous, determined, but without the nasty aggressiveness from some of the Core era games.

Caba
10-09-18, 10:54
I'm a huge fan of the classics, but time moves on and unfortunately the games have aged. What I wish for right now is a TR3 remake using the Rise/Shadow Engine holy ****!

That would be awesome

SoraSakai
10-09-18, 12:22
I like both. Depends on my mood.

The original games are more time consuming and nostalgic.

The new games are more like interactive movies (I mean this as a positive).

I'm not so blinded by nostalgia so I can see the flaws in the original series, but they're still fun to me. I can't say they're "challenging" though only because I've beaten every game in the series 10+ times lol

Lord Lulu
10-09-18, 13:26
That would be the classics for me. The gaming industry is to much like Hollywood now. Spending way to much money on things.

Caba
10-09-18, 14:01
I like both. Depends on my mood.

The original games are more time consuming and nostalgic.

The new games are more like interactive movies (I mean this as a positive).

I'm not so blinded by nostalgia so I can see the flaws in the original series, but they're still fun to me. I can't say they're "challenging" though only because I've beaten every game in the series 10+ times lol

XD

Cochrane
10-09-18, 14:30
The classics. I don’t dislike (most of) the newer games, but at the end of the day, the classics are what I come back to and replay semi-frequently. The movement system and acrobatics are probably the biggest draw for me. It’s just fun (for me) to learn to master these acrobatics and use the detailed Level of Control you have. The newer games are considerably less interesting in this regard.

Lara's home
10-09-18, 15:00
I prefer the modern games these days. The control scheme and slowness of it all can be infuriating. Pushing blocks, shimmying, climbing and crawling makes me want to claw my throat out (holding down the action button while moving at a snails pace..)

Good (great, actually) for their time. TR1/2 definitely have replay value, but they havent aged that well.

Samz
10-09-18, 15:02
I prefer the modern games these days. The control scheme and slowness of it all can be infuriating. Pushing blocks, shimmying, climbing and crawling makes me want to claw my throat out (holding down the action button while moving at a snails pace..)

Good (great, actually) for their time. TR1/2 definitely have replay value, but they havent aged that well.

The slowness is annoying, its why I liked how LAU sped those things up, LAU definitely has the best control scheme, The Tank controls of the PS1 Era don't bother me since it was a technical limitation (Analog sticks weren't common back then) but I wouldn't want them to go back to them.

Zael
10-09-18, 16:02
...Pushing blocks, shimmying, climbing and crawling makes me want to claw my throat out...
Those are some of the weaker elements of the old system, for sure. But overall, the old movement/control system does allow for the high-level expression of player skill, as speedrunners (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=7946918&postcount=11764) (and Cochrane, below) have suggested.
The classics. I donít dislike (most of) the newer games, but at the end of the day, the classics are what I come back to and replay semi-frequently. The movement system and acrobatics are probably the biggest draw for me. Itís just fun (for me) to learn to master these acrobatics and use the detailed Level of Control you have. The newer games are considerably less interesting in this regard.
Yeah, there's nothing quite like it:
http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=7317202&postcount=25
...So I suggested doing this grid. As I remember it, it was a really casual conversation like why don't we do a grid a bit like in Ultima Underworld. That'd be cool, wouldn't it? Then we could edit it much easier and it'd be easier to get a character interacting with it. It was such a massive decision to have made because of course Toby then ran with that ó 'oh then I can work out all of her animations in terms of blocks and distances to do with blocks and heights to do with blocks.'

For those interested in recent games that offer a more 'detailed Level of Control', Super Cloudbuilt is a game that's worth a try, as I've mentioned in a previous thread (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=7938360&postcount=223). Also:
...I'd say that the various individuals within Crystal likely had a wide range of opinions on the series. For example, the Creative Director and Lead Writer for the Soul Reaver games (the games from Crystal which, incidentally, served as the technological basis for TR Legend, as noted here (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?p=7381382#post7381382) and here (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=7762358&postcount=25)) did like Tomb Raider. As mentioned in previous threads (one (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=7950100&postcount=12452) / two (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showpost.php?p=7962595&postcount=69))... Also, perhaps worth noting that Soul Reaver was itself influenced (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_of_Kain:_Soul_Reaver#Development) by the original Tomb Raider.

It's interesting to revisit what reviewers were saying about Soul Reaver's control scheme at the time of its release, in comparison with Classic TR:
https://archive.is/20121209215139/http://www.allgame.com/game.php?id=21151&tab=review
...The gameplay, being by far the most important aspect of any game, is yet another area where Soul Reaver shines. The mechanics are very different than the Tomb Raider series that most people thought Soul Reaver would emulate. In Soul Reaver there doesn't seem to be any predetermined mechanics involved. An example of this is in Tomb Raider, when making a long jump, one would stand at the edge of block, hold down the walk button and take two steps backwards. Once doing so, holding the joystick forward and pressing the jump button would ensure a jump of the maximum distance. It seemed as if every movement in Tomb Raider was based on a mathematical predetermined formula.

While this is not at all a bad thing, this type of movement simply doesn't exist in Soul Reaver. Yes, it's possible to walk to ensure that you won't fall off the edge of a cliff, but taking two steps back with the analog stick doesn't seem to be exact by any means. Now, rather than taking calculated jumps, we have to continue to try for a platform we can't seem to reach. Only after an exhausted effort can we be sure that we aren't able to make a certain jump. This is unlike Tomb Raider where after the very first jump one could easily determine whether or not the jump is actually possible. This will frustrate gamers at first but most will get the hang of completing difficult jumps after practicing control over the main character for a few hours. Since this adventure will last well over fifty hours with no strategy guide use, it's safe to assume that by mid-game even novice gamers will have a full command over Raziel's movements...

yeti
11-09-18, 01:28
Retro.
The games were challenging, required a good deal of exploration and thought, and perhaps most of all were insanely immersive. Many of the levels just teemed with that lonely, isolated, desolate feeling the entire way through. It's something very few other gaming franchises (post-core tr included) have been able to achieve.

Imo there is nothing new, innovative, or quite frankly very interesting about the new tr series. It's basically a generic adventure game that does very little to set itself apart from it's contemporaries. I think it's obvious CD had no interest in taking chances, but saw value (which can be said about most AAA enterprises now) in catering to gaming's lowest common denominator--meaning they merely tred to please as many casual gamers as possible for a healthy bottom line, and it shows.

Tyrannosaurus
14-09-18, 21:36
I like typical old-fashioned Indiana Jonesian adventures about going to exotic locations and finding the treasure before the bad guys do. The LAU games in my opinion best reflect that.The Core games reflect that best, not the LAU era. The depression era adventure pulp stories featured recurring characters, but there was never a continuous story arc. You could read any Conan story or Jules de Grandin story in whatever order you like. In the case of Conan, they weren't even written in chronological order, and knowing the order wouldn't help. Each was an independent story that could be enjoyed on its own terms, much like every entry in Core's games up until AOD. That doesn't really reflect LAU, in which Legend is a prelude, Anniversary is a prequel, and Underworld is an attempt at denouement, and none of them really work without the context of the other entries.

Also because I like the Lara from these games the best: adventurous, upper class, glamorous, determined, but without the nasty aggressiveness from some of the Core era games.Are you forgetting about Lara's confrontation with Amanda near the climax of Legend, or her childish meltdown in Anniversary? Contrast that with her utterly civil tone in TR1, during the scenes in which she interrogates Larson and confronts Natla. This continues well throughout most of the Core series, until it really starts getting personal come AOD.

The slowness is annoying, its why I liked how LAU sped those things up, LAU definitely has the best control scheme, The Tank controls of the PS1 Era don't bother me since it was a technical limitation (Analog sticks weren't common back then) but I wouldn't want them to go back to them.Without a doubt LAU has the worst control scheme in the history of the franchise. What use is it to be lightning fast when the controls are so clumsy, imprecise, and inconsistent? Annviersary is the only TR game I actually rage-quit on, because the awful controls made the automated boss battles unplayable. I'm not a huge fan of the reboot era, but the controls in TR2013 and onward utterly put LAU to shame.

Yeauxleaux
15-09-18, 00:01
Old Lara is infinitely better than New Lara and Shadow has done little to change that so far sorry

I like the difficulty and exploration of the older games more too

Quebsenuef
15-09-18, 00:45
Iím a retro gamer. I prefer the Classics for their style, adventure, gameplay, and puzzles with added difficulties and better atmospheres.

NoahCrofRaider
15-09-18, 00:57
I love the reboot/modern, but I definitely prefer the classics/retro for many reasons. The immense exploration, the really brilliant and tricky puzzles, the music, the atmosphere, so much of it was so wonderfully done and I would love for something like it to return in some form.

JsotoTRSaga
15-09-18, 01:24
Classic/LAU is my cup of tea.

drbunnig
16-09-18, 16:18
Retro easily. Big fan of the grid based system and I find the games are dead fun to play. Struggled to really get into the newer ones. LAU games are enjoyable enough to play.

Horus-Goddess
16-09-18, 19:52
Considering Rise is the only modern game I actually like playing (and it's not because it's a good TR either, it's just a good game), I'd have to stick with the Classics and LAU, for sure.

I also spend or at least used to spend a lot of time playing fan-made levels in the TRLE which are also great. There are many levelsets I've played way more than even the classics because they were that good. :)

I love the level of detail in the platforming of the older games. It was always a question of how to proceed and it isn't always obvious which is what makes them so fun. Though it definitely is something I have to be in the right mood for.

I think once I've 100% Shadow (for likely the first and last time) I'll be replaying the classic games. TR3 is the only one I don't remember well, so I think I will go with that one! :)

2001LC20
26-09-18, 19:44
Considering Rise is the only modern game I actually like playing (and it's not because it's a good TR either, it's just a good game), I'd have to stick with the Classics and LAU, for sure.

I also spend or at least used to spend a lot of time playing fan-made levels in the TRLE which are also great. There are many levelsets I've played way more than even the classics because they were that good. :)

I love the level of detail in the platforming of the older games. It was always a question of how to proceed and it isn't always obvious which is what makes them so fun. Though it definitely is something I have to be in the right mood for.

I think once I've 100% Shadow (for likely the first and last time) I'll be replaying the classic games. TR3 is the only one I don't remember well, so I think I will go with that one! :)

I was actually expecting you to like Shadow a lot since you liked Rise. Will you write review of Shadow?

charmedangelin
26-09-18, 19:49
Classic/LAU

Horus-Goddess
26-09-18, 19:53
I was actually expecting you to like Shadow a lot since you liked Rise. Will you write review of Shadow?

Shadow has a lot going for it but I don't know... maybe it's the pacing or something else but something about it just doesn't appeal to me the same way Rise did. The story also kind of ruined the experience for me if I'm being honest. Once reaching Paititi it went pretty downhill from there. Prior to that though, I was having a lot of fun with it. I don't know. The puzzles were decent (what I've played of them, still haven't gotten through them all yet since I started replaying the game again on Deadly Obsession). The traversal is kind of iffy since it sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. I do like a lot of the spaces in the game (Cenote is pretty awesome for example).

I really don't know though. I would give Shadow a 7/10 at most, Rise probably 8/10 (using modern metrics of course). I played Rise at least four times in the past few years and spent a good while playing Endurance mode which really added to the game's longevity. Shadow feels more like a chore after Paititi and it's just not all that fun to play. Especially when the perfectionist in me wants to collect EVERYTHING and Paititi is a nightmare when it comes to that.

If they'd kept to the adventure being mostly solo, alone in dark tombs solving puzzles and whatnot (like, putting all the side tombs on the main path) then it would've been great. I just think the inclusion of so many social spaces really took away from the experience for me. I prefer the quiet, and doing quests for little people everywhere I go isn't my idea of a TR game.

Maybe it's just me but, something was just off about Shadow. I don't really know how to explain it though.

2001LC20
26-09-18, 19:56
Shadow has a lot going for it but I don't know... maybe it's the pacing or something else but something about it just doesn't appeal to me the same way Rise did. The story also kind of ruined the experience for me if I'm being honest. Once reaching Paititi it went pretty downhill from there. Prior to that though, I was having a lot of fun with it. I don't know. The puzzles were decent (what I've played of them, still haven't gotten through them all yet since I started replaying the game again on Deadly Obsession). The traversal is kind of iffy since it sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. I do like a lot of the spaces in the game (Cenote is pretty awesome for example).

I really don't know though. I would give Shadow a 7/10 at most, Rise probably 8/10 (using modern metrics of course). I played Rise at least four times in the past few years and spent a good while playing Endurance mode which really added to the game's longevity. Shadow feels more like a chore after Paititi and it's just not all that fun to play. Especially when the perfectionist in me wants to collect EVERYTHING and Paititi is a nightmare when it comes to that.

If they'd kept to the adventure being mostly solo, alone in dark tombs solving puzzles and whatnot (like, putting all the side tombs on the main path) then it would've been great. I just think the inclusion of so many social spaces really took away from the experience for me. I prefer the quiet, and doing quests for little people everywhere I go isn't my idea of a TR game.

Maybe it's just me but, something was just off about Shadow. I don't really know how to explain it though.

I see where you comin from! I always tought Shadow is not as good as some people makes it out to be anyway (despite being my favorite).