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View Full Version : 12-year-old boy becomes 14-year-old girl


Geck-o-Lizard
03-02-07, 18:15
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,248196,00.html

Should the parents have agreed to go along with this?

Mad Tony
03-02-07, 18:17
"In the wrong body"...:rolleyes:
Silly.

Shauni
03-02-07, 18:19
That's disgusting! =O I can't believe the parents would let their child do that.

Ampersand
03-02-07, 18:19
I think it's pretty ridiculous. Not meaning to sound patronizing, but children don't really know much about themselves at that age. The thought of a kid having a sex change just creeps me out. =/

wondering woman
03-02-07, 18:19
well that's something you don't see everyday. I don't really get why they had to make her older though. I think she should've waited until she was a little older to decide, but hey, if she's happy as a girl then that's great!

Draco
03-02-07, 18:20
How could a 12 year old know that?

Rivendell
03-02-07, 18:20
Jesus NO. He wasn't even an adult - why aren't there age laws against this?

MiCkiZ88
03-02-07, 18:21
O.o?

to answer that question.. No. He/she should've waited and his/her parents should've put some sense in to his/her head.

Eh.. um.. im lost in words here.. that was just stupid tbh.

Scottlee
03-02-07, 18:22
I can't imagine why anybody would want to change sexes, regardless of how girly a guy might feel, or how manly a woman might feel. If I was gay and felt very feminine, I'm sure I would be able to find a way to be happy as a girly boy and get on with things. That said, I can't truly imagine what that situation would feel like so I'm not going to criticize anyone who is (and as a result decides to have a sex change). I certainly couldn't have a relationship with a girl who used to be a guy though. I just couldn't do it.

As for people under eighteen having sex changes, I can't make my mind up on it. It seems a bit young to be making decisions like that, but if it makes he/she happier then I guess that's all that matters.

Angelus
03-02-07, 18:22
What the hell is this world coming to? He/she didn't even have a chance to grow up and decide! They were still a child!

Thorir
03-02-07, 18:23
Of course. It would be horrible if they didn´t do anything.

I have a friend who has changed sex. :)

BTW, this Kim is only getting hormone treatment.
The operation won´t happen until he/she is 18.

xMiSsCrOfTx
03-02-07, 18:23
I think it's pretty ridiculous. Not meaning to sound patronizing, but children don't really know much about themselves at that age. The thought of a kid having a sex change just creeps me out. =/

I agree. It's wrong on so many levels. Sex change operations at 12? What's next? Let's just start giving liposuction to every kindergartener who gets picked on for being 'chubby' while we're at it.

TombRaiderLover
03-02-07, 18:24
I heard about this yesterday on The Friday Night Project.

Phlip
03-02-07, 18:24
Hmmmm, I agree with that, if Kim is sure that it was the right thing to do, than I agree.

AnthonyShock1515
03-02-07, 18:27
I don't think they put much thought into it. He probably said he wanted to be a girl and they reacted on impulse.

And he/she/shim is so young and naive that I;m surprised doctors would take it seriously. Its like a child saying they wanna be an astronaut:confused:

dox online
03-02-07, 18:28
that gives me the creeps

Ampersand
03-02-07, 18:29
Its like a child saying they wanna be an astronaut:confused:

A good excuse to fire the little devils into orbit. :D

AngloSaxon
03-02-07, 18:29
A disgusting sin at the highest level.

xMiSsCrOfTx
03-02-07, 18:29
A good excuse to fire the little devils into orbit. :D

:vlol:

AmericanAssassin
03-02-07, 18:41
I have no problem with people of that sort. However, I think it's strange all the same.

Laras Backpack
03-02-07, 18:44
I empathise with anyone not comfortable in their own body for whatever reason, but to do this at such a young age is a very dodgy idea. Especially since boys enter puberty a little later than girls so this boy may have become more comfortable at a later age. Either way, I hope she's happier now.
Her treatment, which has cost more than $40,000, is being funded by German taxpayers.

I've also heard of these treatments being given on the NHS here in the UK and many were unhappy about it.

AngloSaxon
03-02-07, 18:49
I have no problem with people of that sort. However, I think it's strange all the same.

If your born male you shall become a male, the same for a female. What you were born you were destined to be, again science is creating blasphemy.I find this disgusting, clearly the parents were to blame here. I doubt the child was born with a 'mental condition' that wanted him to be a girl. Horrible.

Greenkey2
03-02-07, 18:50
That's a good point about how male-female puberty happens at different ages Laras Backpack :wve:

I can understand completely that a person can feel they are trapped in the wrong body/gender. It is a traumatic thing to have to go through; I've known someone who has been through this experience and believe me it was very difficult for them. It didn't help that they were made to feel demonised by their friends and even close family. With that in mind I would support the idea of sex-changes.

But I do think that in this case it was done at far too young an age. Only when the body and mind have reached the adult level should this type of operation/procedure be offered.

AmericanAssassin
03-02-07, 18:51
If your born male you shall become a male, the same for a female. What you were born you were destined to be, again science is creating blasphemy.I find this disgusting, clearly the parents were to blame here. I doubt the child was born with a 'mental condition' that wanted him to be a girl. Horrible.
I agree that people should stay the gender they are born, but if, for some strange reason, they feel that a change is appropriate, I won't hold it against them. I am a VERY liberal Democrat and think option is key to a happy life.

Lenochka
03-02-07, 19:06
The kid was 12 :S
People don't even have a fully developed personality, sexuality, brain, body etc. At that age... Shouldn't make such a big decision so early in life...

AmericanAssassin
03-02-07, 19:09
The kid was 12 :S
People don't even have a fully developed personality, sexuality, brain, body etc. At that age... Shouldn't make such a big decision so early in life...
Very good point! :tmb: I do think that he/she was too young to make such a choice. If he/she wanted to make that choice later on in life, more power to him/her.

AngloSaxon
03-02-07, 19:13
have you seen the picture? It's ugly, the face still look boyish

''Kim has no boyfriends at present but her parents say she is interested in what, now, is the opposite sex.''

My personal belief is that the parents went through with this then rather then having a homosexual son.

Thorir
03-02-07, 19:17
The kid was 12 :S
People don't even have a fully developed personality, sexuality, brain, body etc. At that age... Shouldn't make such a big decision so early in life...

The kid or the parents didn´t make the decision, the psychiatrists did.

You have to pass through a strict psychiatric evaluation.
I know a 26 year old who has been wanting treatment for years, but hasn´t passed through the evaluation yet.

AmericanAssassin
03-02-07, 19:20
have you seen the picture? It's ugly, the face still look boyish
That was uncalled for. Looks have nothing to do with this topic.

Lenochka
03-02-07, 19:24
have you seen the picture? It's ugly, the face still look boyish



Uncalled for... Very uncalled for


@Thorir -

A 12-year-old German boy who insisted he was a girl trapped in a boy's body convinced his parents that something had to be done, so they agreed to allow him to receive a series of hormone injections, making him the youngest sex-change patient in the world, according to published reports Monday.

It says right there... he made the decision himself... and his parents made the decision to let him go through with it...

viper456
03-02-07, 19:25
woah :| as if he was allowed to do that! i thought you had to dress and act as the opposite sex for atleast 3 years before any form of medical alterations would even be considered?

very odd

however the fact that he changed his name from Tim to Kim kinda made me laugh lol

danitiwa
03-02-07, 19:29
Who knows maybe she WAS in "the wrong body" BUT LIVE WITH YOUR GENDER! Cause stuff like this just makes you look mentaly disordered.

AngloSaxon
03-02-07, 19:31
Uncalled for... Very uncalled for


@Thorir - Hmm i could have swore i read after convincing his parents they decided to go through with it... which means he was for the idea... I was just saying someone at that age shouldn't be allowed to make that big of a decision.

Very uncalled for? I'm just stating the obvious:

It's a boys head on a girls body, it's a hideous monstrostity, although they have changed the appearence they haven't changed the sick perverted mind of this child, this kid is now putting others in danger. What parents would feel safe knowing their child were hanging around with him/her?

Thorir
03-02-07, 19:34
@Thorir -

It says right there... he made the decision himself... and his parents made the decision to let him go through with it...

No-one can get hormone treatment without psychiatric evaluation, not even an adult. I have a few transexual friends, so I know. :)

AmericanAssassin
03-02-07, 19:38
Very uncalled for? I'm just stating the obvious:

It's a boys head on a girls body, it's a hideous monstrostity, although they have changed the appearence they haven't changed the sick perverted mind of this child, this kid is now putting others in danger. What parents would feel safe knowing their child were hanging around with him/her?

Safe? Why would they be in any danger. If anybody ever hurts a person out of their own prejudice, they deserve to be tortured and killed. I'm not one to ordinarily think such things, but prejudice is one thing I will not stand for.

AngloSaxon
03-02-07, 19:47
Safe? Why would they be in any danger. If anybody ever hurts a person out of their own prejudice, they deserve to be tortured and killed. I'm not one to ordinarily think such things, but prejudice is one thing I will not stand for.

Danger? Yes danger, this thing is no longer human,Science has made it into a beast, it's disgusting! have they put other female organs into it?

Lenochka
03-02-07, 19:51
No-one can get hormone treatment without psychiatric evaluation, not even an adult. I have a few transexual friends, so I know. :)

Of course, but the parents were willing to do it... They didn't have to do anything. that's what i meant. Sure he wanted to go through with it... but that's now maybe these feelings of being trapped in the wrong body might fade... you never know. I just think ( and so do many others obviously ) that it was a little to early in life for such a big decision to be made.

Greenkey2
03-02-07, 19:52
this thing is no longer human,Science has made it into a beast, it's disgusting! have they put other female organs into it?

AngloSaxon will you please keep such comments to yourself rather than post them here.

da tomb raider!
03-02-07, 19:55
Man... this is just weird. Your gender is your gender. A boy isn't really a girl, and a girl isn't really a boy. Even if the kid wanted to be a girl, he should've waited until he was much older.

Thorir
03-02-07, 19:56
Of course, but the parents were willing to do it... They didn't have to do anything. that's what i meant. Sure he wanted to go through with it... but that's now maybe these feelings of being trapped in the wrong body might fade... you never know. I just think ( and so do many others obviously ) that it was a little to early in life for such a big decision to be made.

I´m sure the parents would want their child to be happy, and since the psychiatrics gave the OK, felt no reason to prevent it. :)

God Horus
03-02-07, 19:59
o...m...g... That is so disguisting! This is so popostrious!, How the **** would his,.. her, ... heshes paerents alow him,her herhe to do this!?!? HOW I ASK!!!

AngloSaxon
03-02-07, 20:00
o...m...g... That is so disguisting! This is so popostrious!, How the **** would his,.. her, ... heshes paerents alow him,her herhe to do this!?!? HOW I ASK!!!

This all may be explained by demonic posession.

scion05
03-02-07, 20:57
Im all for it.

Can you imagine waking up everday wishing you aren't the sex you are.
Hating the way you look, seeing stuff you wish was different.
I would like it.

Im glad for the girl.

YET

I think the child should've waited to a later age, so he/she could've
been surer, although im sure she wont regret it :)

Bullethail
03-02-07, 21:05
Yeah, I read about this. Sad to say, (s)he's actually pretty good looking. :cln:

However, my brother's twelve, and the thought of a kid his age doing such a thing... well, I'm not sure how to phrase it. Insane? Tragic? I dunno.

Phlip
03-02-07, 21:06
A disgusting sin at the highest level.

I wouldn't say that!

Mad Tony
03-02-07, 21:07
I don't see why people can't just accept who they are and what they're not.

scion05
03-02-07, 21:11
You just dont understand, thats why you dont see ;)
Try and put yourself in her position :(

Mad Tony
03-02-07, 21:12
You just dont understand, thats why you dont see ;)
Try and put yourself in her position :(
So, you can see, why don't they accept who they are?
You seem to know a lot about the subject. :)

scion05
03-02-07, 21:14
Well i wasnt born a girl if thats what your thinking :vlol:
Im just trying to get across that if someone doesnt like the
way they are, why cant they change it.
Its like when someone dyes their hair, would you disagree with it ? :)

Lenochka
03-02-07, 21:14
Thats hair though :vlol: this is a BIG change...


hmm scion you seem to support this a lot... In the near future should we begin to call you Davina? :p

BoyTRaider
03-02-07, 21:15
Like many of you said, I'm against it at such a young age. Let kid at least mature and go through life a bit more.

Danger? Yes danger, this thing is no longer human,Science has made it into a beast, it's disgusting! have they put other female organs into it?

... this is the most horrifying comment I've ever read in this forum.
How can you say such a thing?

scion05
03-02-07, 21:15
I was using it as an example.
No matter how big or small the change, everyone deservese to look
and feel right, no matter how.

Mytly
03-02-07, 21:18
I don't see why people are reacting so negatively to this. Going by the article, the kid had been insisting that he was a girl from the age of two, so it was hardly an impulse decision. Also, Kim has only undergone hormone therapy as yet, not a sex-change operation. AFAIK, the effects of hormone therapy are reversible (correct me if I am wrong). So she hasn't made any decision that has changed her body permanently.

viper456
03-02-07, 21:19
right i have made an effort to read the FULL article and this swayed me in favour for the whole thing.

The family’s full identity has not been made public. But Kim’s father, known as Lutz P, told Stern that as a child, Tim liked to play with Barbie dolls, enjoyed wearing dresses and, from the age of two, insisted that he was a girl.

for a boy at the age to 2 to insist they are a girl shows just how unhappy this person would of been if they had to grow up as a male.

this person might be young but they were clearly unhappy, and i just hope that she can now go on to lead as normal life as possible and a happy one at that.

Greenkey2
03-02-07, 21:28
Like I have already said, I know what this type of mental disorder can do to a person. It's horrific, knowing you're in the wrong body, and being shunned by your friends and even your family only makes the problem worse.

These people need our love and understanding, not condemnation and ignorance.

viper456
03-02-07, 21:31
Like I have already said, I know what this type of mental disorder can do to a person. It's horrific, knowing you're in the wrong body, and being shunned by your friends and even your family only makes the problem worse.

These people need our love and understanding, not condemnation and ignorance.

its actually great for her that her family were so suportive. Wouldnt of been possible without them

Mona Sax
03-02-07, 22:09
I don't see why people can't just accept who they are and what they're not.
I don't see why people can't accept who others are.


Now, I think everybody should be free to live in the body they want. It's possible, so why shouldn't they have the choice to have their sex changed? It's their body, and nobody's harmed. It should really be up to everybody.

However, I don't think a 12 year old should have a sex change, it's just too early. Kids aren't mature enough to buy homes or cars, and this is an even more important decision. Anyway, what's done is done. What this kid needs now is understanding and support, not intolerance and hate.

Mad Tony
03-02-07, 22:11
I don't see why people can't accept who others are.

Good point there.
Well, why can't people accept who others are?

tr_mitch
03-02-07, 22:28
Freedom of choice and all.
If he wants to be a girl, let him be a girl.

Olvidarse
03-02-07, 22:29
By age 12, a "child's" brain has fully formed to function like that of a regular adult. In Piaget's theory of cognitive development, by age 12 people begin to think logically about abstract concepts - including sexual identity.

At age 14, she still seems comfortable with the treatment. Psychologically, there's nothing wrong here.

Geck-o-Lizard
03-02-07, 22:29
This all may be explained by demonic posession.

See you in two weeks. :wve:

Psyched
03-02-07, 22:37
Things at such an age should be the parents' decision. Children in that age range can be very whimsical. Your kid feels depressed and wants to use illegal drugs. Do you let him/her? I personally think these things are wrong but won't criticise people if they really want to make use of the various scientific options available today to "enhance" their life. After all, it's their decision. If the parents are positive that it's for the best, then OK. But no matter how much a kid begs, parents don't let it get its way in matters such as toys and chocolate et cetera. Were I his father, I'd have expressed the same sentiments.

irjudd
03-02-07, 22:45
I'd like to see the full article and picture, could someone post it? I think there are some network restrictions over the WLAN I'm using at this hotel preventing me from seeing the link to the full article.

viper456
03-02-07, 22:56
I'd like to see the full article and picture, could someone post it? I think there are some network restrictions over the WLAN I'm using at this hotel preventing me from seeing the link to the full article.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=432094&in_page_id=1770

that work for you :)?

Lew
03-02-07, 23:06
OMG! Why?!

viper456
03-02-07, 23:08
OMG! Why?!

read the article it says why :p

lita212
03-02-07, 23:20
none of you will understand due to you not having to go through with it but a person knows if something is wrong. imo i think kim probs made the right decision, she knows she shud have been a girl so she did something about it. its better that she lives a life she wants then trying to live as a boy only then wanting to be a woman when shes like 50 like alot of transexual women do which is very hard for them as it takes longer with little feminin features so they have to get surgery more then lets say someone whos still going through puberty or is having it done at lets say 18 which then its far more easier due to hormones working quicker meaning they will develop more into a girl due to them still not being fully developed as your body constantly changes throughout life. i think if kim is happy then people should be happy for her. i think people saying its sick are very narrow minded, why should someone have to be miserable the rest of there lifes? we were all girls within the first 6-8 weeks of being concieved its just for kim she then turned into a boy which was obviously not what she wanted to be. i say good for kim and i hope shes very happy and enjoys life.

viper456
03-02-07, 23:22
none of you will understand due to you not having to go through with it but a person knows if something is wrong. imo i think kim probs made the right decision, she knows she shud have been a girl so she did something about it. its better that she lives a life she wants then trying to live as a boy only then wanting to be a woman when shes like 50 like alot of transexual women do which is very hard for them as it takes longer with little feminin features so they have to get surgery more then lets say someone whos still going through puberty or is having it done at lets say 18 which then its far more easier due to hormones working quicker meaning they will develop more into a girl due to them still not being fully developed as your body constantly changes throughout life. i think if kim is happy then people should be happy for her. i think people saying its sick are very narrow minded, why should someone have to be miserable the rest of there lifes? we were all girls within the first 6-8 weeks of being concieved its just for kim she then turned into a boy which was obviously not what she wanted to be. i say good for kim and i hope shes very happy and enjoys life.


also, its not as thought shes hurting anyone is she? Just wants to be happy like you said .

PS: I was quite gutted to find out that im a mutation of a girl :( haha

mizuno_suisei
04-02-07, 00:15
I wanted a Sex Change when I was younger. I felt that girls were my calling, but then I realised what I would be missing out on. Luckily I didnt pursue it :p

If Tim/Kim has no regrets. Im happy for him/her.

AmericanAssassin
04-02-07, 00:42
Im all for it.

Can you imagine waking up everday wishing you aren't the sex you are.
Hating the way you look, seeing stuff you wish was different.
I would like it.

Im glad for the girl.

YET

I think the child should've waited to a later age, so he/she could've
been surer, although im sure she wont regret it :)
I agree with you. I am all for it. I think it's a little bit strange, however, none of us can judge what we don't understand.

Dmoney
04-02-07, 00:46
I think its an abomination:( ....... but thats IMO:pi:

CerebralAssassin
04-02-07, 00:51
disgusting...if he had a calling for men,why didn't he remain a man and be gay?there's nothin wrong with that..:pi:

Thorir
04-02-07, 00:53
disgusting...if he had a calling for men,why didn't he remain a man and be gay?there's nothin wrong with that..:pi:

Because she was born as the WRONG GENDER?

irjudd
04-02-07, 01:01
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=432094&in_page_id=1770

that work for you :)?

No, thats the link that just brings up "page cannot be displayed" :( I meant I needed someone to copy/paste the article/pics

viper456
04-02-07, 01:07
No, thats the link that just brings up "page cannot be displayed" :( I meant I needed someone to copy/paste the article/pics

here you go

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y33/viper456/timkim280107_228x323.jpg

Girl of 14 who was a boy until she was 12
By ALLAN HALL - More by this author »

Last updated at 16:29pm on 29th January 2007

Even at the age of two, Tim insisted he was a girl trapped in a boy’s body.

And when puberty began to approach at the age of 12, he convinced his parents that something had to be done.

With their agreement, he became the youngest sex-change patient in the world, receiving hormone injections which arrested his male development.


Now, at 14, Tim has become Kim – a blue-eyed blonde with a growing bust line who is allowed to wear make-up at weekends.

She has no boyfriends at present but her parents say she is interested in what, now, is the opposite sex.

Her treatment, which has cost £18,000 so far, is being funded by the German taxpayer.

Psychiatrists treating her say she was an ‘exceptional case – a person clearly in the wrong body’, even though the decision to grant her wishes when she was so young is still the subject of intense debate.

Her identity and medical insurance cards have been changed to her new name and sex.

But she has not been placed at a different school in case of taunting from children who knew her as him in days gone by because, according to her parents, ‘her friends fully accept her as she is’.

She dresses in trendy clothes and told Germany’s Stern magazine that she ‘dreams of moving to Paris to become a fashion designer’.

The family’s full identity has not been made public. But Kim’s father, known as Lutz P, told Stern that as a child, Tim liked to play with Barbie dolls, enjoyed wearing dresses and, from the age of two, insisted that he was a girl.

‘We saw Kim as a girl, but not as a problem. Our life was surprisingly normal.’

Kim reacted badly to the first signs of puberty, he said.

‘At that stage we realised that she was terrified of growing facial hair and her voice breaking.’

Kim’s parents consulted psychiatrists across Germany.

Some condemned their support of their child’s desire to undergo a sex change, or suggested that she be kept under observation in a closed psychiatric ward.

But others agreed that the child should receive therapy, because growing up to be a man would have damaged her personality.

Dr Bern Meyenburg, the head of a clinic for children and adolescents with identity disturbances at Frankfurt University, concluded that the child was serious.

He wrote in his diagnosis: ‘Kim is a mentally well-developed child who appears happy and balanced.

‘There is no doubt of the determined wish, which was already detectable since early childhood. It would have been very wrong to let Kim grow up to be a man.

‘It is rare to have such a clear-cut case.’

The sex change will not become complete for another four years because while German law does not forbid hormone treatment for minors, they must be 18 before gender-transforming surgery can be carried out.

Dr Achim Wuesthof, who is treating Kim at a clinic in Hamburg, said: ‘To the best of my knowledge, Kim is the youngest sex-change patient in the world.

‘Imagine a man who suddenly starts growing breasts or a woman who starts growing a beard against their will – that is how Kim and people like her experience puberty.’

The UK’s youngest sex-change patient was Oliver Wheadon, from Wigton, Cumbria. He was 17 when he was granted the operation on the NHS four years ago and is now known as Angel Paris- Jordan.

sorry if thats annoying to anyone else, was trying to be helpful

Gabi
04-02-07, 01:10
Abomination........? Disgusting...............?

Only narrow minded people who have not got a clue about the issue would say something like this. Where on earth do you get opinions like these from?

viper456
04-02-07, 01:11
well personally, i think shes fairly pretty. And she also seems very comfortable as a girl so good for her :)

irjudd
04-02-07, 01:19
Thanks for posting the article for me. Sorry to be a pest.

It says the surgery can't actually be performed until the age of 18, so here's hoping any "boyfriends" this person gets until then doesn't get a little surprise he didn't expect.

Dmoney
04-02-07, 01:24
Abomination........? Disgusting...............?

Only narrow minded people who have not got a clue about the issue would say something like this. Where on earth do you get opinions like these from?

I'm sorry:wve: , but sex changes are against my religion. I would explain, but this isn't the place for that

irjudd
04-02-07, 01:27
Just out of pure curiousity... what religion is that?

AmericanAssassin
04-02-07, 01:27
This thread certainly points out the liberal-minded and the conservative-minded. Personally, I think topics like this are too touchy. Personally, as I've stated earlier, I have no problem with it. I think religion has its own place and topics like this should never be compared with it...but that's just me.

Dav
04-02-07, 01:28
I'm shocked that so many people here are making huge assumptions about something they have no real knowledge of. No one here knows in any kind of detail the circumstances of this case. Even the Psychiatrists on record in the article described it as an "exceptional case". So saying this was bad judgement under the circumstances (by the parents, doctors, etc) is based in nothing but ignorance. Also nobody (even those who have themselves gone through a crisis like this) can know how this person feels, whether their desires are genuine, etc.

I don't believe people should be arguing about anything other than the pure academics of the subject (the whether this kind of thing should be done, and whether it should be done to a person at this age, i.e. the original question posed) - anything else, including commenting specifically on this case, requires the use of an unacceptably large artistic licence. That's my opinion anyway.

In principle, if it is deemed the medically and psychologically right thing to do, I have no problems with such hormone treatments or the "whole nine yard" gender reassignment surgery. Although I don't think it should be something that is done lightly as it obviously has the potential to mess distressed people up further. I do, however, have problems reconciling expensive treatments such as this being paid for on the NHS when others are denied life-saving cancer drugs on the grounds of cost. But that's a personal opinion and I'm sure applies to several other procedures that are paid for by the tax-payer. That isn't to say I wouldn't want my taxes going on such procedures, I just think it's a matter of priorities.

As for having this kind of treatment at this age, in general I, like many of you, think it's wrong. A twelve-year-old can not have the self-awareness on such a subject to make this decision. Puberty changes a lot of things, emotionally as well as physically and whilst what Olvidarse says about the twelve-year-old mind may technically be true, it would be wrong to say that someone of the age of twelve would in the same place on such as matter as they would be when they are six years older. This is especially true when making such a life-changing choice. There is also a distinct lack of maturity in most twelve years old that should be considered. After all, this kind of thing isn't easily reversed should the patient change their mind.

I also wonder what the affects are of leaving a young adult in a bi-gendered state for 6 years until they can have the gender reassignment surgery. I imagine it could be end up leaving someone very confused. I venture to guess that it might even exaggerate the uncertainty of people with such gender issues in some cases.

As I say, in the current case I'm in no position to comment but I really do hope that they live a happy life and don't end up regretting the choice. Or for that matter, wishing that the adults and professionals around them would have stopped them from making a choice they could have potentially not been in the right place, or old enough to make. It’s a sad fact but they are a bit of a guinea pig in the matter, as undoubtedly medical and mental health professionals will look to this individual to see if it is wise to follow suite with similar cases in the future.

Oh, finally I'd like to thank Geck-o-Lizard for preserving the integrity of the forum by dealing with what had become vile and bigoted ranting in this thread. It's nice to see that kind of thing isn't tolerated here and won’t taint the views of the majority of this community.

tlr online
04-02-07, 01:29
If this is true, he should be removed from his parents custody, and they should be arrested.

Dav
04-02-07, 01:34
I think religion has its own place and topics like this should never be compared with it...but that's just me.

I agree. Just because it's against one's religion doesn't mean one should judge others for doing things that are acceptable, or even right, within their beliefs. it just means you believe that you shouldn't do it, which is entirely your own decision.

CerebralAssassin
04-02-07, 01:38
If this is true, he should be removed from his parents custody, and they should be arrested.

Amen to that...what were they thinking??

I like long hair and I like make-up...what does that mean??that I should have a sex change so I'm more acceptable to society??I accept that I'm a girly man...people are just not accepting of themselves these days and I hate it!:hea:

people that do things like this are just spitting in the face of mother nature...:mad:

(I'm not discussing this further.it's my opinion.)

Dmoney
04-02-07, 02:00
Just out of pure curiousity... what religion is that?

Not important, this topic is to "touchy";)

lorien elf
04-02-07, 02:16
What the hell is this world coming to?

^ what the hell is this world coming to? .... HELL. ;)

If your born male you shall become a male, the same for a female. What you were born you were destined to be, again science is creating blasphemy.I find this disgusting, clearly the parents were to blame here. I doubt the child was born with a 'mental condition' that wanted him to be a girl. Horrible.

I wouldn't be saying to be harsh, but I agree about what you're born as, that's what you are. I mean, medically/biologically, how far can they really successfully change the kid? I don't mean that to be asking about the details, but as for now, what little does science know about the sex of a human (how to manipulate it) compared to God (or even nature for those of you who don't believe)? It's not going to be the same, is the point, imo. Hormones and the surgery can do their best... *shrugs*

I couldn't help but wonder also, if it's not just a little sick on the part of some of the physicians, scientists or even psychiatrists involved. It might be for them a great test subject to study, first being that he's the youngest yet to undergo this kind of therapy. And since it's happening at the age of puberty, I bet they want to see how much science can manipulate the human genome so far to where they've not been able to do such a thing before. I don't mean to offend, just the opinion I have about the academics behind this, not everyone does good for the sake of doing good...

My personal belief is that the parents went through with this then rather then having a homosexual son.

Heh, I wondered about that after you said it. Maybe it's unfair though, maybe his parents really were accepting of it.. :confused: I'm just surprised if the father isn't sad because of that kind of father-son bonding relationship that he's going to have to miss out on, consequently. Just the way many dads want a boy child rather than a girl usually.

You have to pass through a strict psychiatric evaluation.
I know a 26 year old who has been wanting treatment for years, but hasn´t passed through the evaluation yet.

Even though I don't like it, and it's not up to me to say to a person he can't do such a thing to himself (it's just weird, imo, wanting to change one's body like that so drastically), it does seem unfair and just odd that a person who wants it has to be screened in a psychiatric evaluation before he's allowed to do it. I mean, it's his body, why should they prevent him from doing it? unless it's partly to do with the tax payers' money going for the procedure?


PS: I was quite gutted to find out that im a mutation of a girl :( haha

Hehe, I was actually so very pleased when I heard that some time ago, how humans all start out at the fetus stage as females, but hormones make humans male? It's cool, imo. ;)

I agree with you. I am all for it. I think it's a little bit strange, however, none of us can judge what we don't understand.

Haha, funny but humans do that sort of thing all the time. Funny that other humans are only so understanding of differences of one another in certain circumstances, like the stranger ones but not in others, like even different stereotypes... Sorry for being a *****, just couldn't but help to say at least that much.

I'm sorry:wve: , but sex changes are against my religion. I would explain, but this isn't the place for that

^ Heh, I didn't expect that but agree. I know TRF isn't a place where we discuss religion, but I just take a different view on this because I believe God creates everyone, and makes them as He knows best, imo. That's just all. It's odd to me then that a human thinks he came out in the wrong sex.


Comformity of the minds of the world and political correctness can make people afraid to say what they really think (versus going with the current way of thinking and thus what is acceptable) and to some extent to even be able to have a say in what affairs soon involve their own lives. This does actually make me glad that the United States does not yet have a national health care system. I'm not going to give the polite answer and say that I wouldn't want tax dollars to go to some kind of "luxury" surgery (as I think of it) because it's a matter of priority... it's a matter of necessity. Dav did say that there are usually issues with getting money for life-threatening illnesses and the surgeries that some require, so it bites that the populace at large had to pay for something like this... yes, it was very tragic for Tim and very personal for him, but it's nearly impossible to accept that the state should ever cover such a procedure.

Next thing we could know, in the US (if we go to a NHS ourselves) might be covering plastic surgeries, like breast implants and nose jobs for the people who already have money to afford it, maybe even for those who don't. It's harsh, but it's not right that people who dont even know the family should be required to pay for a surgery to make someone's personal life better in that regard going against what nature made him. I'd rather have money like that go to charities for homeless are starving kids in Africa...

People, imo, don't live long enough to really mature to the ripe level that they should, imo. Some are still shallow, conceited and self-absorbed even into their twenties. They still do evil things without even having concern for the long-term consequences. This kid, no matter what newer science tries to say about human maturity, was still in his adolescent state. He's no where near enough to the point where he should have the kind of life experience to know what's best for him, not so when it requires going through a life-altering procedure (even if he does have to wait a few years for it to be complete) and altering the body that he was born with to that degree. I'm with those who spoke of how easy it is to spoil children, with giving them what they want all the time. He may have been liking girly things since he was very small, but that doesn't make him wise in all ways of knowing what's best for him. He has no real foresight, not even his parents do. Maybe he wont change his mind, but it's still a terrible thing to begin with it so young. They, imo, could have at least waited until he was 18.

A lot of girls get freaked out by what they go through with puberty, at least some parts of it. Just something you have to get used to, as best you can. People, imo, have gone through worse things than just "being in the wrong body", which is a shocking idea to me anyway. I can't see how even evolutionists can come up with something like that. It happened in nature, how can a boy change what he was born into as if he knew best what he was meant to be? If he had been meant to be born a girl, why wasn't he then born one? He could have at least been effeminate to the utmost degree....

Dav
04-02-07, 02:39
Dav did say that there are usually issues with getting money for life-threatening illnesses and the surgeries that some require, so it bites that the populace at large had to pay for something like this... Well this did happen in Germany - it's quite possible that there the important life-saving stuff is provided as well. In which case I have no issues with the procedure on this front. I don't like the idea of purely cosmetic surgery being paid for by tax-payers money but this is a little different.

It's just in the UK there have been real problems with the NHS agreeing to take on the only drug that can save people's lives! Then they agree to expensively break and extend some teenage girl's legs so she can meet the minimum height requirement to be an air hostess (her dream job). That doesn't seem right or a proper balance of priorities. Over here it all seems to depend which NHS district you live in though - it's a postcode lottery.

can't see how even evolutionists can come up with something like that.What does believing in evolution have to do with anything? Just because you believe in evolution doesn't mean you think every person comes out matching an ideal. In fact Evolution works on the principle of genetic mutation and natural selection which says that mistakes do happen. If they have a good result then they give an individual a greater chance of survival and mating than the general population and so the genes are more likely to occur in the next generation, and so on. If they have a bad result the opposite happens. And over many generations the species evolves in a direction that gives it more of an advantage in it's environment.

That just seems like an unnecessary crack at something you don't believe in......

irjudd
04-02-07, 02:48
These surgeries are not able to actually create real, working organs... right? Will this person be able to function normally? Maybe I don't know enough details, but as far as I know, the parts that get "changed" don't actually "work" seeings as how there are important parts that can't just be "built" by surgeons. At 12, you may not be thinking of the importance of this, but surely by 18 you'll have realized.

Dav
04-02-07, 02:52
I'm pretty sure they do all work properly for everything except for procreation (obv) and the secretion of certain fluids that are specific to the female body.

My (limited) understanding was apart from that you'd be hard-pushed to tell the difference.

Olvidarse
04-02-07, 02:58
They, imo, could have at least waited until he was 18.

What is wrong with everyone on this forum? Somehow they think 18 is a magical number. A number does not change your brain - or your actions, your thoughts, you feelings. You yourself said some people never mature - "People, imo, don't live long enough to really mature to the ripe level that they should, imo. Some are still shallow, conceited and self-absorbed even into their twenties. They still do evil things without even having concern for the long-term consequences."

If he had been meant to be born a girl, why wasn't he then born one? He could have at least been effeminate to the utmost degree....

Because you can't decide your sex. A sperm (23 chromosomes in glory) does that for you.

I bet they want to see how much science can manipulate the human genome so far to where they've not been able to do such a thing before.

Why is this a popular opinion on science? Science isn't evil.

Ugh.

Dav
04-02-07, 03:22
What is wrong with everyone on this forum? Somehow they think 18 is a magical number. A number does not change your brain - or your actions, your thoughts, you feelings.

No it doesn't but in most cases a 12 year old is no-where near mature enough or old enough to be making such huge decisions. 12 year olds can be mature for their age but that doesn't make them rational-minded and level-headed to the degree to make that kind of decision. At 18 most people are getting that way. It's the age at which the law recognises you as being that way and it would be inconsistant to put a different limit on it.

Ideally though I would say the majority of people should be waiting until their 20s before making such decisions when hormones and emotions can start to calm down a bit again. The teens are turbulant years! I'm 22 and I'd say my outlook on life and opinions on matters have changed radically since I was 12 both through maturing naturally and life experience.

As I say, I can only speak general theoreticals though as I don't know this kid and I don't know their circumstances.

lorien elf
04-02-07, 03:23
Well this did happen in Germany - it's quite possible that there the important life-saving stuff is provided as well. In which case I have no issues with the procedure on this front. I don't like the idea of purely cosmetic surgery being paid for by tax-payers money but this is a little different.

It's just in the UK there have been real problems with the NHS agreeing to take on the only drug that can save people's lives! Then they agree to expensively break and extend some teenage girl's legs so she can meet the minimum height requirement to be an air hostess (her dream job). That doesn't seem right or a proper balance of priorities. Over here it all seems to depend which NHS district you live in though - it's a postcode lottery.

Over here, I've heard of some cases where people on welfare can get the goverment to pay for Viagra, of all things, but some options like braces just aren't covered (and something like the teeth can be more than cosmetic too). Wow, that's really interesting about the girl. Seems like it does just depend on the leniency of whoever gets to decide, what their opinions are... :(

What does believing in evolution have to do with anything? Just because you believe in evolution doesn't mean you think every person comes out matching an ideal. In fact Evolution works on the principle of genetic mutation and natural selection which says that mistakes do happen. With something like the mistakes, I tend to think of the deformations of limbs and some missing parts, like the kids born without eyes, or lips even, not something so complete as sex.

If they have a good result then they give an individual a greater chance of survival and mating than the general population and so the genes are more likely to occur in the next generation, and so on. If they have a bad result the opposite occurs. And over many generations the species evolves in a direction that gives it more of an advantage in it's environment.

^Those are the characteristics that help the species survive and adapt, as you were saying, like the opposable thumb, but how does sex relate to that? Females just generally outnumber males, right? having to do with the chromosomes of course, and so on. You're right, that it's kind of out there, but I guess I meant the evolution part in that I was thinking of it happening naturally, that sex isn't a mistake, it just can't be a mistake like those deformed limbs, etc. Just time and circumstances, heck, even what the species needs to survive, determine what does survive and last into the next gen. Sex of an animal shouldn't matter so much, unless it were dying out.

That just seems like an unnecessary crack at something you don't believe in......

Touche. :) No, I think I was really trying to say it: if you don't believe that there's a God who pre-determines factors like sex, and err, humans haven't yet been known to be able to change their sex naturally, at will, as some amphibians might have.... so, imo, it's an odd thing for either side to see sex-changes as a natural course of human decision and manipulation of the species (that this is ok, morally, I guess, to interfere in such a way with the body). Wasn't evolution to say that it happens by natural selection, not interference from the species itself? I know I've been running myself into a corner here, but maybe it helps some to explain what I meant to say and should have finished earlier. You're right, seems to have less to do with evolution, just meant it from the background each person might have, that equally (religion or no) it's perplexing to me that anyone would see sex-change as normal/acceptable and not a horrendous thing for science to do to a person.

lorien elf
04-02-07, 03:35
What is wrong with everyone on this forum? Somehow they think 18 is a magical number. A number does not change your brain - or your actions, your thoughts, you feelings. You yourself said some people never mature - "People, imo, don't live long enough to really mature to the ripe level that they should, imo. Some are still shallow, conceited and self-absorbed even into their twenties. They still do evil things without even having concern for the long-term consequences."

I think Dav said it well, and imo, 18 has to be better than 12. I see more wrong with thinking that 12 is a number that determines one's maturity level, just because latest science seems to state that a child can have developed rather well by that age. Seems that one would just be learning how to think in abstract terms, not be accomplished at it. And with the age difference, the point of that is that the person will have already at least gone through more tests of life, one being high school, and what one has been through really affects one's maturation rate, no? When you're in your early 20's even, it's likely that you're either just near finished with university or may only just have gotten your feet into the working world, where you're more independent of your parents and are starting to lear of course how to support yourself.

That's a big deal, and it also affects how you develop as a person. Having more experiences under one's belt does tend to change one a lot. Imo, it's better to have gone through more harsh and challenging experiences to shape oneself before making any drastic changes that one might not be quite capable of understanding or even processing, right? This kid was still working on where she wants to be when she grows up and you wouldn't disagree with me that it's just as likely that she could change her mind about that too, right? But at least it won't affect her like changing her organs, etc likely will.

Because you can't decide your sex. A sperm (23 chromosomes in glory) does that for you.

^ Then how does he know he was born into the wrong body? How can he know that just because of his tastes in clothes, lifestyle, etc? He complained about being born a boy, as if something wrong had happened to him, but no one could have made it happen differently, unless they gave his mother/him hormones while he was still in the womb. And at that stage it's likely he wasn't sure yet which sex he wanted to be.

Why is this a popular opinion on science? Science isn't evil.

No, and I don't want to give that the wrong idea, just because I say I believe in God. It's just my own warped opinion, and I don't mean that all science is evil, only the men who use it for the wrong ends/means.

Dav
04-02-07, 03:38
Ok well first of all people who undergo gender reassignment surgery have often been shown to have radically female brain chemistry and make-up. It is physically possible through an anomaly during cell growth, mitosis, etc to end up with a female brain in a male body.

This is nothing to do with a psychological condition. We are talking about the physical differences in the way a male and female brain work. Such an error would be considered by evolutionists (and most scientists) a genetic "mistake". Just as blonde hair was thought to have been at first (although it offered a serious advantage when attracting a mate). Evolution works on the principle that no specimen is perfect but through the changes caused by mistakes that end up with positive results, as well as through natural selective breading (a natural version of the process dog breaders use to get certain qualities), the species as a whole becomes perfectly adapted to it's environment. But that also means that some specimens have things that are radically "different" as compared to the ideal in an unadvantageous way. This is part and parcel of the whole "using mistakes to drive the species forward" system. Although I think it's actually the other way round - the mistakes happen and the evolution is a happy bi-product. That doesn't mean there is anything wrong with them as an individual. We are talking genetics. It might not make the slightest noticeable difference to them or it might mean they end up with an immune system that recognizes a peanut as a pathogen and sends a response to deal with it causing allergies. It could mean they end up with a new colour of hair. Or it could end up with something more undesirable leading to someone suffering.

Whether you accept that or try to rectify things to make the person who is suffering feel better has nothing to do with how you believe this error occurred. It's down to personal beliefs and philosophies. But it's human nature to try and fix what is wrong. And in science that wisdom is particularly encouraged.

Would you say that people who are born without working legs should have to drag themselves around by their arms or do you invent a wheelchair (or perhaps even try and medically find a way to make the legs work)? The latter is interfering. Sex change therapy is just the alternative for a different condition.

For the record I'm Christian myself so I'm not a God-hating scientist or anything! I just evidently have a different interpretation which leads me to different conclusions on matters such as these.




-Edit to save adding another post-

Then how does he know he was born into the wrong body? How can he know that just because of his tastes in clothes, lifestyle, etc? He complained about being born a boy, as if something wrong had happened to him, but no one could have made it happen differently, unless they gave his mother/him hormones while he was still in the womb. And at that stage it's likely he wasn't sure yet which sex he wanted to be.


I don't think it's that trivial. In a case such as this I would imagine there is hard evidence to suggest a genuinely feminine mind. Probably caused by a female brain setup and female brain chemistry (or at least more female than the average man). you could probably notice a difference on a CAT scan. In several cases this has been shown to be true. I think in some cases you could be right though. Often what transgendered people become after they change is a horridly male stereotype of what a woman is. They don't really know what being a woman for real, and often I think that their assumption that what they are is now a woman could actually offend several women!

But in such a radical case I think this would have been taken very seriously and only approved by medical professionals after assuring themselves of the justification for a change.

For me it's just a matter of the age.........oh and regarding that:

@ Olvidarse: Given that you see 12 year olds have the same mental ability as adults would you allow them to drive? And if so why not? (I’m not having a dig at you here, I'm genuinely curious)

Shark_Blade
04-02-07, 04:06
:yik: what the ...?? The parents should guide him/ put more senses to him rather than oh, well lets do a sex change.:rolleyes:

lorien elf
04-02-07, 05:41
Ok well first of all people who undergo gender reassignment surgery have often been shown to have radically female brain chemistry and make-up. It is physically possible through an anomaly during cell growth, mitosis, etc to end up with a female brain in a male body.

That is interesting. I didn't know myself how the hormones would actually change the body, chemically, as in the brain. I mean, I now do recall a few readings on some scientific evidence (err, the articles of course, not the actual published material that leaves a lay person very confused, lol) on the differences in the male and female brains, concerning those who like the same sex, something to do with spots. Yeah, that's all I remember, lol. That was the evidence, or study to argue that homosexuality can be genetic, right?

This is nothing to do with a psychological condition. We are talking about the physical differences in the way a male and female brain work. Such an error would be considered by evolutionists (and most scientists) a genetic "mistake".

^I think that was just what I was going on, the idea that both sides would seem to see the desire to be in a different body as just a mistake of the evolutionary process, not merely a mutation that could be quite natural, etc, since it's kind of abnormal, if it's separate from the issue of homosexuality. I mean, in this kid's case, he would have liked guys even if he'd not decided to become a girl, possibly, right? But that's probably a side issue, mostly, since this is wanting to be a girl and not just liking guys.......

Just as blonde hair was thought to have been at first (although it offered a serious advantage when attracting a mate). Evolution works on the principle that no specimen is perfect but through the changes caused by mistakes that end up with positive results, as well as through natural selective breading (a natural version of the process dog breaders use to get certain qualities), the species as a whole becomes perfectly adapted to it's environment. But that also means that some specimens have things that are radically "different" as compared to the ideal in an unadvantageous way. This is part and parcel of the whole "using mistakes to drive the species forward" system.

Right. The studies on the brain differences in male and female and how the different sexes occasionally might have an individual with a brain more like what another of the opposite sex might have, could fit into this... though, I only tried to mention the evolutionist/non-religious aspect in a way merely to say it would seem that no matter one's preferences/beliefs, this procedure has to seem at least quite odd, no? It's not happening in its own course that is, or going against what God intended, perhaps.

Would you say that people who are born without working legs should have to drag themselves around by their arms or do you invent a wheelchair (or perhaps even try and medically find a way to make the legs work)? The latter is interfering. Sex change therapy is just the alternative for a different condition.

I wouldn't go that far, as to say conditions like not being able to walk should just be left alone, no medical influence, all that. But with the sex change, as you must be saying, I don't see the relation in priority... the sex change isn't a necessity, as far as I know, as would something like the inability to walk or being born blind would be. but, I don't know what its like to go through something like that, how much of a problem it might have been for this kid, just on the outside of the issue, not sharing the experience, it doesn't seem so necessary to give him what he wants, you know? Maybe after time at least, but definitely not when so young. You're right, it's down to personal beliefs, and it is a good thing that science can try to correct or fix what has gone wrong in nature. Heh, I'm no radical religious person who believes that all medical care is against my faith, lol. :)

I don't think it's that trivial. In a case such as this I would imagine there is hard evidence to suggest a genuinely feminine mind. Probably caused by a female brain setup and female brain chemistry (or at least more female than the average man). you could probably notice a difference on a CAT scan. In several cases this has been shown to be true. I think in some cases you could be right though. Often what transgendered people become after they change is a horridly male stereotype of what a woman is. They don't really know what being a woman for real, and often I think that their assumption that what they are is now a woman could actually offend several women!

Yeah, the brain scans... it is fair to say that this kid might have been one of those cases... heh, in that regard though, then the hormones would only be necessary to change the physical features to make him female, which they do, lol, but he's already got the brain for it... :)

But in such a radical case I think this would have been taken very seriously and only approved by medical professionals after assuring themselves of the justification for a change.

^Hope so.


It's hard to understand how they came to that decision though, as you were saying, considering the kid's age... who knows? :confused:

ivannnnn
04-02-07, 10:58
Awfully bizarre :pi:
How about the people around 'her'??

Janny
04-02-07, 11:02
Woah, a lot of discussion around here.

About the kid- why not? If he feels 'he' should have been a 'she' then why torment a child all his life by not allowing him to feel good in his skin?
Imagine 'her' parents when they see their child moaning about how his life- that he/she will be sad all the time.. It's a bit puzzling to think of what to say to the kid if you'd be the parent..

Ikas90
04-02-07, 11:05
Woah man, that's a terror! :eek:

Legends
04-02-07, 11:13
I think it's wrong to be that young and go through that. I support people’s rights, but he's just a child.

Anniversary Lara
04-02-07, 12:10
Her treatment, which has cost more than $40,000, is being funded by German taxpayers.
Wow, I didn't expect that!

Well, it's kinda strange and I will never understand it. I'm just glad that I don't have such problems and I feel I'm in the 'right' body.

Dav
04-02-07, 13:19
I'm no radical religious person who believes that all medical care is against my faith, lol. No I wasn't suggesting you were. I was merely trying to draw a parallel to something generally more acceptable to all. This was done to save the child from severe psychological harm. And whilst I don't agree with the general idea of doing it to a kid of this age, I can't comment on the actual case as it's conceivable that not doing anything could have been worse for the child - we really don't know enough about the specifics of the situation. I suppose it's down to whether you buy the "irreparable psychological harm" argument.
^Hope so. Yeah me too! If I'm wrong this truly is a worrying case!

Chug a Bug
04-02-07, 15:08
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,248196,00.html

Should the parents have agreed to go along with this?

No, thats far too young. If this person still wants to go ahead with it when they're 18 then they're presumably mature enough to decide for themselves, but 12 is too young.

paul123456
04-02-07, 15:08
If he/she's looking for a boyfriend... i don't understand how they could get one. I mean they can't just go out and not mention he/she use to be a boy can they?

Gabi
04-02-07, 15:24
I'm sorry:wve: , but sex changes are against my religion. I would explain, but this isn't the place for that
Fair enough, but in my opinion that does not justify calling someone an abomination.



I like long hair and I like make-up...what does that mean??that I should have a sex change so I'm more acceptable to society??I accept that I'm a girly man...people are just not accepting of themselves these days and I hate it!:hea:
Today's society is not a very accepting one in general and I doubt that a sex change would make you more acceptable than being a "girly" man (just look at your own view on it). Don't you think, though, that they both should be accepted equally?
And I do think that Kim is accepting herself.............as a girl.


I know TRF isn't a place where we discuss religion, but I just take a different view on this because I believe God creates everyone, and makes them as He knows best, imo. That's just all. It's odd to me then that a human thinks he came out in the wrong sex.

Maybe one of god's little mistakes?


Personally I don't feel that I can say "I agree" or "I disagree" with the matter in this case, because I simply do not have enough background knowledge. I only do hope that the decision made was the right one for Kim.

Lara Croft!
04-02-07, 15:50
The kid should make that choice when he became 18.It was wrong for the parents to allow that!

interstellardave
04-02-07, 16:27
The problem here is the so many people in this topic think they know best in this case... walk in their shoes for 12 years first. 12 years is a long time and it seems to me that there was no gender confusion here. This was a case where the little boy was absolutely certain the entire time--and was clearly very unhappy about his circumstance. The story says more than once how obviously "clear cut" this case is. Be happy for her!

Draco
04-02-07, 16:53
Society today is more accepting then it ever has been before.

Puberty is important in cases like this, sex changes after puberty are likely worse than sex changes prior. The age of the individual only matters so much.

Ultimately the parents are the decision makers in this as is evidenced.

The thing I have a huge problem with and can't bring myself to like even a little, is that the German taxpayers are footing the bill. God bless America, land of non socialized medicine.

Mr.Burns
04-02-07, 19:18
My Opinion: Since I'm not a psychiatrist I can not give a proper opinion on this nor would I. They are the ones that can properly determine if this child's suffering was genuine or not.

I found this today:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6329613.stm



Society today is more accepting then it ever has been before.

Puberty is important in cases like this, sex changes after puberty are likely worse than sex changes prior. The age of the individual only matters so much.

Ultimately the parents are the decision makers in this as is evidenced.

The thing I have a huge problem with and can't bring myself to like even a little, is that the German taxpayers are footing the bill. God bless America, land of non socialized medicine.

I agree with all but that last statement. The only reason I disagree is that when I have two choices for health insurance that include:

A: paying at least 400-600 dollars a month just for BASIC coverage.

B: paying 90 dollars a month through my job but the coverage is absolute garbage ($1250 deductible before they start covering anything and then not even close to full coverage).

Right now the health care status in the US is very bad but will only get worse. We need centralized health care. However, this is for another topic so I have digressed.

Draco
04-02-07, 20:33
I work for MGM/Mirage, which has one of the best medical coverage plans you can find outside of government employ. And we are always needing people, so the jobs are out there.

Geck-o-Lizard
04-02-07, 20:38
Lucky you.

Draco
04-02-07, 20:45
Luck has nothing to do with it. I wanted my job, I got my job. I didn't get lucky and get picked in a lottery.

Those who depend on luck get what they deserve.

Geck-o-Lizard
04-02-07, 20:48
Luck has a lot to do with it. You're lucky you weren't born into a family who lived in poverty, like a lot of your fellow Americans were. Most of them will never have the opportunity to shoot for jobs with great healthcare packages, because people like you and me who came from more well-off backgrounds had the cash to afford education that lets us get the good jobs. You say they deserve everything they get?

walk_man
04-02-07, 20:52
I thought it was illegal. How can they let their child go through that. Won't it mess up the puberty stage? Wrong. Absolutly wrong.

AmericanAssassin
04-02-07, 20:53
None of us can possibly imagine the torment that the little boy/girl was going through, unless one of us is a transgender. So, I don't think any of you have any right whatsoever to post how "wrong" or "disgusting" it is. I've already stated how religion should NOT have any say in a matter such as this. I think that it's proposterous for any of you to critisize what you couldn't understand if you tried! :mad:

Draco
04-02-07, 20:53
I am not a priviledged individual, sure I'm not as far down as some, but by no means is my job distinguished.

Guess what, minimum wage full time jobs get the exact same medical benefits at my corporation. Too bad most people are too busy crying over their own 'predicament' and wanting handouts to go out and solve their own problems.

I just now transferred to a job that currently pays me $10 an hour within the company. I started at a job that started at $5.15, I was making $6.15 by the time I transferred to my new job.

So tell me again why nobody else can do this?

interstellardave
04-02-07, 20:59
Right now the health care status in the US is very bad but will only get worse. We need centralized health care. However, this is for another topic so I have digressed.

Health Care is great in the US... affordability is another issue, but that's an important distinction to be made IMO. Centralized anything is not the solution... you think you won't pay? Hah! You'll just pay higher taxes instead of higher premiums.

There's no free lunch except maybe lousy tasting ones... ;)

Geck-o-Lizard
04-02-07, 21:06
Too bad most people are too busy crying over their own 'predicament' and wanting handouts to go out and solve their own problems.

Those aren't the people I'm talking about. I mean people who are not in any position to consider health coverage as a deciding factor in their employment. They're uneducated and have barely enough money to survive; they can't travel to find the ideal job. Most of them end up working in the only jobs they can get, stacking shelves and working the graveyard shift at Burger King, because other slightly more privaleged people were able to go to college to learn enough to be trusted with more responsibility than using a burger spatula.

Many of them DO try to improve their situation, but simply can't, because the corporate world is angled steeply away from anyone who isn't in a position to be profitable to them. The military ends up one of the only places where these people can go to earn more than pennies, and military healthcare tends to involve extraction of shrapnel and bullets.

(However bearing all that in mind, the UK with its NHS health system isn't above the US in terms of poverty. Glasgow's the poverty capital of Europe; you know that?)

Draco
04-02-07, 21:11
The military health care system is unrivaled. I'd go back if I could.

Legend 4ever
04-02-07, 22:14
"In the wrong body"...:rolleyes:
Silly.

Think about how you would feel when you would know something is wrong with you and you would wish to change it!

That's disgusting! =O I can't believe the parents would let their child do that.

I think it's pretty ridiculous. Not meaning to sound patronizing, but children don't really know much about themselves at that age. The thought of a kid having a sex change just creeps me out. =/

It was a good thing he was young so that he could get used to this new condition since the early age.

None of us can possibly imagine the torment that the little boy/girl was going through, unless one of us is a transgender. So, I don't think any of you have any right whatsoever to post how "wrong" or "disgusting" it is. I've already stated how religion should NOT have any say in a matter such as this. I think that it's proposterous for any of you to critisize what you couldn't understand if you tried! :mad:

I completely agree. I think this subject should be looked like this: everyone have different choices, differend senses and guidances trough the life so leave it at that.

Terminatorvs
05-02-07, 17:08
That's plain DUMB! And they actually believed it? "Trapped in a boy's body." BULLS***!!!! What that idiot needed was not hormone injections, but a decent visit to the psychiatrist's!!!! "Treatment was funded by German taxpayers". :mad: :mad: :mad: What a stupid thing! Give me my minigun! I'll be back shortly.

Betal
05-02-07, 17:13
That's plain DUMB! And they actually believed it? "Trapped in a boy's body." BULLS***!!!! What that idiot needed was not hormone injections, but a decent visit to the psychiatrist's!!!! "Treatment was funded by German taxpayers". :mad: :mad: :mad: What a stupid thing! Give me my minigun! I'll be back shortly.

That boy didn't feel comfortable in his body and to be a boy. And if he now will be a girl that is 100% ok. That he was a girl trapped in a boys body is just noncense but he wanted to be a girl so...

Gabi
05-02-07, 17:39
That's plain DUMB! And they actually believed it? "Trapped in a boy's body." BULLS***!!!! What that idiot needed was not hormone injections, but a decent visit to the psychiatrist's!!!!

And your statement is plain ignorant!
Maybe you should have a look at THIS (http://transsexual.org/).

lorien elf
06-02-07, 00:13
No I wasn't suggesting you were. I was merely trying to draw a parallel to something generally more acceptable to all.


Yeah, I understood. I just felt like saying that since it got into so much about God, and since some don't believe in Him, I kinda wanted to point out that I don't see how it's even natural to not feel right in the body one is born into, you know? *shrugs* But I do agree with the others, it's not an experience we can even begin to imagine (and no offense, I don't want to) in order to try to understand the situation and his perspective. I don't argue that it wasn't bad for him, just I wonder if something different could have been done for him?



[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]Maybe one of god's little mistakes?

Heh, I don't believe in a God that makes mistakes, of course that just reads like cyclical thinking, just going back on my explanation, maybe the typical response. At least though he got what he wanted, and hopefully how he feels better as Kim will last for him, really. :(

Personally I don't feel that I can say "I agree" or "I disagree" with the matter in this case, because I simply do not have enough background knowledge. I only do hope that the decision made was the right one for Kim.

^Right. I don't like speculating on others' problems like this, in cases like this one, without even having the smallest chance of being able to relate to the situation. I know what it's like too being on that end, where others can talk about it, etc. I do hope he's ok with it now though, as Kim.

lorien elf
06-02-07, 00:19
*repeated post*

lita212
06-02-07, 00:41
Thanks for posting the article for me. Sorry to be a pest.

It says the surgery can't actually be performed until the age of 18, so here's hoping any "boyfriends" this person gets until then doesn't get a little surprise he didn't expect.

actually most men dont get turned off buy the idea of a chick with a dick. vanity and amanda lepore have both been with straight men. vanity is the worlds most succsessful transexual porn star and amanda lepore who had the chop at around 17 etc and started taking hormones at 13 is the worlds most famouse transexual who was also married to a straight man.

Catapharact
06-02-07, 00:48
I am thinking this is more of a psycological issue. First I would see that an assesment on the boy is made. It could just be a phase; The boy is over his teens and his body may have a bit of a problem balancing the natural homaonal count and just hasn't had a chance to adjust as fast as other boys. Jumping to a sex change operation isn't only costly but rather kinda hastey.

No opinion yet until I see more greater detail in the issue, but I would rather not since this IS a private matter.

EscondeR
06-02-07, 06:02
That's plain DUMB! And they actually believed it? "Trapped in a boy's body." BULLS***!!!! What that idiot needed was not hormone injections, but a decent visit to the psychiatrist's!!!! "Treatment was funded by German taxpayers". :mad: :mad: :mad: What a stupid thing! Give me my minigun! I'll be back shortly.

That boy didn't feel comfortable in his body and to be a boy. And if he now will be a girl that is 100% ok. That he was a girl trapped in a boys body is just noncense but he wanted to be a girl so...

And your statement is plain ignorant!
Maybe you should have a look at THIS (http://transsexual.org/).

Yep. You should consider this
‘Imagine a man who suddenly starts growing breasts or a woman who starts growing a beard against their will – that is how Kim and people like her experience puberty.’
fellow GROKer...
SO if, now, she feels OK - why not then?

Jacob x5
06-02-07, 07:29
I don't think it's a case of being in the wrong body. I just think it's a case of having a screw or two loose.

Mad Tony
06-02-07, 07:32
I don't think it's a case of being in the wrong body. I just think it's a case of having a screw or two loose.
I agree.
This boy probably had a mental condition.
Instead of getting a sex change, he should've got professional medical help.

EscondeR
06-02-07, 07:33
I don't think it's a case of being in the wrong body. I just think it's a case of having a screw or two loose.

I agree.
This boy probably had a mental condition.
Instead of getting a sex change, he should've got professional medical help.

Do you know that children with attributes of both sex are born sometimes? Surgeons perform operations, but they can make mistakes also (in case what sex is right choice) :mis: This operation can be medical help you're speaking about ;)

mizuno_suisei
06-02-07, 08:37
Oh boy has this topic turned into a whirlpool since I posted.

Is it true that some religions believe in no-sex change and for example, no protection during sex etc.. and no sex before marriage.

This is why I dont like/have a religion. I HATE it. I dont HATE anyone who is involved in a religion, but I feel its pathetic. People have a right to do what they want. I was supposed to get circumsised when I was born, but My mum ran off with me for 4 months, and we didnt see my dad for many years. RELIGION is a load of CRUD. Seriously.

The only people I HATE, are the ones making the immature posts, with stuff like "WHAT A LOAD OF BULL**** WRONG GENDER BULLC*** " and so on. Kim is like you or me, because I feel so bad for the outside critisism's/opinions, I would date Kim >_>

EscondeR
06-02-07, 08:42
This is why I dont like/have a religion. I HATE it. I dont HATE anyone who is involved in a religion, but I feel its pathetic. People have a right to do what they want. I was supposed to get circumsised when I was born, but My mum ran off with me for 4 months, and we didnt see my dad for many years. RELIGION is a load of CRUD. Seriously.



:tmb: Same for me...
I can add: Faith and religion are not the same, and I HATE people who use others' Faith to drag other people into religious stupidity to get some profit/reach their aim/etc.

Gabi
06-02-07, 13:39
I don't think it's a case of being in the wrong body. I just think it's a case of having a screw or two loose.

I agree.
This boy probably had a mental condition.
Instead of getting a sex change, he should've got professional medical help.


Have you two actually bothered to inform yourselves about the issue? LINK (http://transsexual.org/)
And Tony, she is getting professional, medical help.

Terminatorvs
06-02-07, 13:54
RRR, this post was originally way longer, but I had to exclude everything out of it. :mad:

Greenkey2
06-02-07, 15:01
That's plain DUMB! And they actually believed it? "Trapped in a boy's body." BULLS***!!!! What that idiot needed was not hormone injections, but a decent visit to the psychiatrist's!!!! "Treatment was funded by German taxpayers". :mad: :mad: :mad: What a stupid thing! Give me my minigun! I'll be back shortly.


That's quite enough of the name-calling thank you. Slandering someone who isn't able to come and defend themselves is not acceptable.


This person isn't stupid, or an idiot. They are ill (whether mentally or phsyically, it's the same thing).

Mona Sax
06-02-07, 17:08
I don't see it as an illness or as a mistake at all. Kim apparently just happens to have a personality that doesn't match her body, and she's IMO the only one that has the right to make a decision. People who criticize that decision seem to have more trouble accepting nature than Kim, to be honest.

EscondeR
06-02-07, 17:13
That's quite enough of the name-calling thank you. Slandering someone who isn't able to come and defend themselves is not acceptable.


This person isn't stupid, or an idiot. They are ill (whether mentally or phsyically, it's the same thing).

I don't see it as an illness or as a mistake at all. Kim apparently just happens to have a personality that doesn't match her body, and she's IMO the only one that has the right to make a decision. People who criticize that decision seem to have more trouble accepting nature than Kim, to be honest.

Oh, Mona, I think Jenny means "illnes" as any type of disorder/dismatch of physical and mental characteristics :) And it must be "cured" in a way described in the article...

Jacob x5
06-02-07, 17:16
Have you actually bothered to inform yourself about the issue?

No, I haven't. :ton:

Gabi
06-02-07, 18:30
No, I haven't. :ton:

I thought so. And that makes your comment an ignorant and immature one. If you have nothing useful to say, you may as well abstain from posting in a thread.
:tea:

Ward Dragon
06-02-07, 18:46
This article is shocking, to say the least. I don't even know where to begin. I suppose what annoys me the most is that the tax payers had to pay for this. After that, well, the boy knew he was really a girl since he was two years old and then he started getting hormone injections when he was 12? When I was that age, I *really* wanted to be a robot (I'm not mocking, I'm dead serious). I eventually got over it, although if I had been given the option to somehow turn into a robot when I was 12 I probably would have taken it. I'm quite happy with myself now, so who is to say that this boy wouldn't have been happy with himself once he got past puberty? At the very least, I think that 12 years old is far too early for such a drastic and life-altering procedure to be performed. I have a few suspicious theories about the parents' and doctors' motivations, but I do not know any specifics on the case so I will keep those ideas to myself.

Jacob x5
06-02-07, 18:53
I thought so. And that makes your comment an ignorant and immature one. If you have nothing useful to say, you may as well abstain from posting in a thread.
:tea:

I thought so too, but that doesn't make my comment ignorant or immature. Also, I have lots of very useful things to say and that was one of them, which is why I didn't hesitate to post in this thread.

:tea:

Laras Backpack
06-02-07, 19:21
After that, well, the boy knew he was really a girl since he was two years old and then he started getting hormone injections when he was 12? When I was that age, I *really* wanted to be a robot (I'm not mocking, I'm dead serious).
Awww, Bless! :D

buffytabor
06-02-07, 20:09
Everyone needs to make their own choices. Sadly I do believe the choice was made a little too soon. The age thing makes no sense to me, 12-14...strange. But if he is happy being a she, then who are we to judge. I certainly wont.

lita212
06-02-07, 22:41
imo this is something which will never be wrong in someones mind. only 1% regret it. kim will have known she wanted to be a girl because its something which the mind cant fake etc. its the same with gay people. you always know and have a sense that your gay but dont how what to do because no one gets taught in school bout gay life etc and even how to go about getting help if you feel you want to be the opposite sex. psychiatrists take this very seriously and they dont allow people to go the full way e.g getting there privates changed, unless the patient has lived for so long as the gender they want. kim has probs done the right thing by coming out so early and speaking up etc. its easier for people her age because they go through puberty quicker when on hormones because there actual sex characteristics hasnt kicked in yet which means it will have only taken a month for her to grow breasts. i say good for her and if people cant understand the situation then you really shouldnt comment something you dont know nothing about.

Ward Dragon
06-02-07, 22:53
^ I admit that I know nothing about this particular case outside of the article. In general, I'd say it's possible that maybe a set of parents really wanted a daughter but got a son instead. If they raised their son to believe he was a girl (encouraging "feminine" behaviors and discouraging "masculine" behaviors), then he'd think he was supposed to be a girl. Now, with hormone injections, his entire body chemistry is forcibly changed so he's lost the free will to decide if it's really what he wanted. I think 12 years old is far too young to make such an important decision.

lita212
07-02-07, 00:01
^ I admit that I know nothing about this particular case outside of the article. In general, I'd say it's possible that maybe a set of parents really wanted a daughter but got a son instead. If they raised their son to believe he was a girl (encouraging "feminine" behaviors and discouraging "masculine" behaviors), then he'd think he was supposed to be a girl. Now, with hormone injections, his entire body chemistry is forcibly changed so he's lost the free will to decide if it's really what he wanted. I think 12 years old is far too young to make such an important decision.

she stated that the thought of growin a beard scared her etc. if she does regret it which is unlikely cause its only 1% who regret it then she can take steroids to reverse the effects although she will most likely have to get a vasectomy on her breats due to that being the one effect which isnt reversable

2kool4u
07-02-07, 00:37
lmao Tim=kim!!! lmao!!! Stupid parents!!!

lorien elf
07-02-07, 00:46
^ I admit that I know nothing about this particular case outside of the article. In general, I'd say it's possible that maybe a set of parents really wanted a daughter but got a son instead. If they raised their son to believe he was a girl (encouraging "feminine" behaviors and discouraging "masculine" behaviors), then he'd think he was supposed to be a girl. Now, with hormone injections, his entire body chemistry is forcibly changed so he's lost the free will to decide if it's really what he wanted. I think 12 years old is far too young to make such an important decision.

That's good thinking, in an interesting way. I mean, if I get to see evil in this somewhere, and one is to blame for this, I dont see why the parents shouldn't become the suspects, or the doctors. Heh, I would like to believe that someone over there was damn interested in letting this happen to him/her because it's an awesome (maybe not a word they'd use) case to study. And why not? They say that humans are born female, err, to a certain stage as fetus, right? so if that's true, then how could it not be interesting to see if the sex of a human could be altered through hormones (which in nature make a person male) before puberty is in full gear and before he does become a man? Wouldn't it be good for them to see if their science works? And the psychological impact, it's got to be an interesting case too. Err, bleh, really am sorry, this isn't a sport, or funny at all. Just, I couldn't help but wonder about the doctors/scientists involved. Surely, someone will look at his case with great interest.

But it's a really interesting thing too to wonder about the parents, if they could have done something to encourage it. I know that might offend people about homosexuality, but I see these as different. Maybe they did encourage it. That's an interesting psychological case. Who knows what governments and private industries are interested in in such a field anyway? Turn anything or anyone into an experiment. Heh, in a way, it's also probable that they had at least a little something to do with it, just in the way that parents who spoil their children and always give them material things they want and the attention they crave, are ultimately responsible in the end for the brats that their children become once they're grown, imo. Different cases, just shows though that parents of course do shape what their children come out to be, not withstanding though other influences as well...

But I agree with the others: it's not right to attack this kid, he now she, probably can't help much what she was going through before. Heh, it's not like he could have given himself his own psychological evaluation and then have been done with it. Sure, there might have been a chance he could have outgrown it, but his parents didn't wait on that either. It's not fair to attack him/her when he/she can't defend him/herself to you guys.

tombfan91
07-02-07, 01:52
interesting article. i feel if he will be happy about it than let him you know. he or i guess she seems to be happier about this so i figure that's that.

lita212
07-02-07, 04:05
interesting article. i feel if he will be happy about it than let him you know. he or i guess she seems to be happier about this so i figure that's that.

yeh i agree if shes happy then thats all that matters. people dont realise though that kim would have had to live a year while taking hormones and been analised etc to be 100% sure that kim is a transexual and she obviously passed other wise she wouldnt have the all clear for her to have a full sex change when shes 18. although she may be able to get it sooner. the youngest transexual who has had a full sex change was a girl at 16

Spitfire
07-02-07, 04:19
I think Kim got what she wished for. Nothing wrong with a person living life how they want and dream. Personally i find the real strength in the whole situation to come from the parents. Must have been hard to heard their little boy want to change his sex with such assurance at a young age of 12. Truely an amazing article.

Mary CF
07-02-07, 07:52
Very uncalled for? I'm just stating the obvious:

It's a boys head on a girls body, it's a hideous monstrostity, although they have changed the appearence they haven't changed the sick perverted mind of this child, this kid is now putting others in danger. What parents would feel safe knowing their child were hanging around with him/her?

You're very intolerant and I have no idea why you're still a member of this forum. Seriously, THINK before you speak.

The only thing I can see wrong with this issue is how young the child was when they started having hormone treatments. No child can make such a decision, nor should they be able to. Maturity is a huge factor, as many others here have stated.

[EDIT: I see Geck-o-Lizard has dealt with you. Thank you, Geck!]

kryptonite23
07-02-07, 11:08
It is very impossible for a 12-year-old boy to be a 14-yaer-old gorl.
But if it is possible,I wish it could not happen to me.

Ward Dragon
07-02-07, 19:53
It is very impossible for a 12-year-old boy to be a 14-yaer-old gorl.
But if it is possible,I wish it could not happen to me.

That's what I thought it meant, too. When I read it again, I think the boy started having hormone treatments when he was 12. So now, two years later, he's 14 years old and he's living as a girl until he gets a sex-change operation in another few years.

lita212
08-02-07, 00:35
That's what I thought it meant, too. When I read it again, I think the boy started having hormone treatments when he was 12. So now, two years later, he's 14 years old and he's living as a girl until he gets a sex-change operation in another few years.

yeh this is what it meant. basically he would have started seeing a psychiatrist and would also be taking homrones under observation and would have had to do 1 year life test which is when someone going through this has to live a year as the opposite sex or even longer to be sure there doing the right thing. now she is living full time as a girl at the age of 14 and will be able to have the full sex change (genital surgery) once she is 18. amanda lepore however had hers early because her boyfriends dad was a plastic surgoen and she was already living full time as a girl by age 17.

Tyrannosaurus
08-02-07, 01:36
She'll probably commit suicide later in life.

Lenochka
08-02-07, 01:41
She'll probably commit suicide later in life.

Now Arent we positive Polly :p

Mary CF
08-02-07, 02:32
Now Arent we positive Polly :p

Heh... not at all.

Natey168
08-02-07, 02:35
..How did he age two years when he got the sex change...?

lita212
08-02-07, 02:51
she is now 14 yrs old but she first started taking hormones and started the transition at 12 yrs old

Natey168
08-02-07, 02:55
Ah..Okay :p I didn't read the whole article.

Legend 4ever
09-02-07, 12:56
Some of the people here are either too ignorant to understand or to stubborn to understand that this kid wasn't mentally challenged or something, but just following his own feelings who told him that who he really is is actually a female.

I understand it is hard to understand because you don't feel that way, but...

the hooliganz
09-02-07, 13:08
why did his parent let him/her do that, so he/she grow some breast and had his/her genitals change? never read the whole article

EscondeR
09-02-07, 13:18
why did his parent let him/her do that, so he/she grow some breast and had his/her genitals change? never read the whole article

Cause she really need it to be mentally stable ;)

Legend 4ever
09-02-07, 13:27
Exactly!

dream raider
09-02-07, 13:33
It would be okay if it was an adult but a 12 year old boy?? What was the boy's fault that "his" parents wanted a girl or maybe enter the world guiness book of records for the Youngest Boy Sex Change...

EscondeR
09-02-07, 13:37
It would be okay if it was an adult but a 12 year old boy?? What was the boy's fault that "his" parents wanted a girl or maybe enter the world guiness book of records for the Youngest Boy Sex Change...

Don't be so ignorant :o
I can't imagine any parents to do it only cause wanted a girl...

-- Edit --
I want a girl, I'll pray for a girl... But if I have no success, I won't insit on sex change :mis: (if he needs it not...)
Probably I'll try once more ;)

dream raider
09-02-07, 16:02
Can a she become a he?

lita212
09-02-07, 17:37
Can a she become a he?

yes there is even a male pornstar who used to be a woman and trust me i was sooo shocked when i found out it was a woman who changed to a man.

kim hasnt had a full sex change. she still has her male genitals etc. the only thing shes done is take hormones and dresses like a girl. she would have had to do a full year dressed as a girl to do what psychologists call "the real life test" this shows the patient and psychologists etc if its actually the right thing they are doing etc. only 1% get confused as a transexual when really there actually gay.

Leon xXx
10-02-07, 01:23
Like always "Becareful What You Wish For".

Ultimate_Lara
10-02-07, 07:16
This is very creepy and strange. Though very interesting :p

bulliestogo
10-02-07, 23:53
American Assassin and Legend4ever are the only people with sense in this topic. What a surprise the link was grabbed from Foxnews.:rolleyes:

lita212
11-02-07, 01:38
no offence bulliestogo but why are they two the only ones that make sense? if you read every comment you will realise that its not just them 2 who actually understand kims situation eg. me

Jacob x5
11-02-07, 02:00
As far as I'm concerned anyone who says they're a male trapped in a female's body or vice versa has a psychological issue. I can't accept that they are actually in the wrong body. It's all to do with the way they feel, not the way they are.

bulliestogo
11-02-07, 17:42
no offence bulliestogo but why are they two the only ones that make sense? if you read every comment you will realise that its not just them 2 who actually understand kims situation eg. me

Sorry, lita. I missed your post(s). This isn't an easy topic to read through. Lots of ignorance.

Fish.
11-02-07, 17:45
Personally, he should have waited until he was at least 18. I mean, a 12 year old getting a sex change isn't right in the least. :yik:

Gabi
11-02-07, 20:16
Sorry, lita. I missed your post(s). This isn't an easy topic to read through. Lots of ignorance.

You probably missed my posts as well then ;) .

Mad Tony
11-02-07, 20:17
As far as I'm concerned anyone who says they're a male trapped in a female's body or vice versa has a psychological issue. I can't accept that they are actually in the wrong body. It's all to do with the way they feel, not the way they are.
I agree with you there.

lita212
12-02-07, 04:40
Sorry, lita. I missed your post(s). This isn't an easy topic to read through. Lots of ignorance.

hehe its ok no harm done. i tottally agree there are alot of ignorent and narrow minded people in this forum. i dont think they should be allowed to have an opinion on something they done even know or understand. my advice to them is reasearch what a transexual person has to go throug, its not something which happens over night but i guess these people will never understand

ajrich17901
12-02-07, 05:33
To me i think it doesnt matter its what the kid wants and in my opinion thats all that matters

MattTR
12-02-07, 05:37
Man, what has this world come to..

DREWY
12-02-07, 05:41
I think the person involved is the only one who knows how they really feel, and should do what they think is best for them. Having said that, they must be old enough / mature enough to see the consequences or ramifications of what they are doing and go in fully aware of what they are in for. Its not a -decide one day,- "look at the new me" the next day procedure.

Melonie Tomb Raider
12-02-07, 06:19
This is ridiculous...

CerebralAssassin
12-02-07, 06:24
I don't see it as an illness or as a mistake at all. Kim apparently just happens to have a personality that doesn't match her body, and she's IMO the only one that has the right to make a decision. People who criticize that decision seem to have more trouble accepting nature than Kim, to be honest.

Kim is the one having trouble accepting nature,not me.the last time I checked,you can't change your sex by smelling flowers...it's a man-made process..NOT natural..

McGloomy
03-02-08, 11:39
it's a man-made process..NOT natural..

We could argue about that, but that's not what bothers me: She was too young to decide something like that. There's an age of consent for nearly everything, so there should be one for sex-changes too. I'm also bothered that the whole procedure was paid by my parent's taxes (in the figurative sense ;)).

Tomb Raider Master
03-02-08, 11:41
Please, don't bump old threads, McGloomy. Thank you.

knutroald
03-02-08, 11:44
I don't have anything against people getting a sex change, but they should at least grow up before making such a huge decision that'll effect their life for ever. I mean what if this kid wakes up half a year from now and decides he misses being a boy?

EDIT: Oh, I'm sorry. Didn't realize this thread was so old:o

McGloomy
03-02-08, 11:49
EDIT: Oh, I'm sorry. Didn't realize this thread was so old:o
I didn't either. Stumbled across it when I was searching for something completly different. Sorry! :hea:

Gregori
03-02-08, 11:51
Am I the only person here who is not bothered by this and is not going on a ranting ignorant tirade?

Rexie
03-02-08, 11:55
humanity has lost it's mind O_o even if I fel a boyish girl I wouldnt do that..no,im not gay...

Geck-o-Lizard
03-02-08, 11:55
This thread's like, a year old. Let it die.