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-   -   Rise's Place In the Trilogy (https://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=220061)

TrustyBow 07-05-18 22:48

Rise's Place In the Trilogy
 
With more information coming out about Shadow, I'm curious to hear what other's feel about Rise's significance in the Survivor trilogy.

Many seem to see Rise as being trivial. I can see why. It doesn't add too much to the mythology. But I think that's for a reason.

After watching the CGI trailer a couple of times, Lara's line of "We Become Who We're Meant To Be" really took on a new meaning. TR13 was Lara's beginning's. We see her gain the skills she needs as a Tomb Raider. Shadow, from all that we've heard, seems to be Lara actually becoming the Tomb Raider.

I think Rise is all about destiny and fatalism. I think it's significance lies in Lara exploring who she is. Rise get's a lot of flak for Lara seemingly going on this adventure because of her father, and it certainly seems that way on the surface but I think it's more than that. I think that Lara sets out on finding Kitezh because she believes it's her destiny. I think she chooses to go on this whole adventure because it's her way of finding out who she is.

While Shadow is actually going to show Lara becoming the Tomb Raider, in Rise, I think we saw Lara become Lara Croft.

Mickybyrne20 07-05-18 23:12

I mean the daddy issues are getting carried over to Shadow, so it's kinda relevant. Though, Lara's progression was so minimal in Rise.

The reboot and Rise should have been one game. One gigantic game, actually. Then it might have had some real significants. As stand alone games they're rather basic.

If Lara had slow progression, from having nothing, to obtaining weapons, crafting different ammunition, to then climbing trees, to get dual axes, using her bow to latch on to more things, it would've been a game that's 10/10. Lara being scared to being somewhat tolerable like in Rise. That wouldve been a an awesome story arc.
It feels dragged out across two seperate games.

It should have been one game called Rise of the Tomb Raider, then the sequel should've been Shadow of the Tomb Raider.

I don't want to start getting all fan fiction on you, but there could've been a story about the Solari vs Deathless ones being in battle, and they betrayed Himiko because she was leading them into a death trap. Deathless ones come back to life like a Phoenix and they don't.

Prophet vs Himiko. Two different types of immortal beings competing against each other. Sounds like some GoT type of Sh!t.

VictorXD 08-05-18 01:47

[QUOTE=TrustyBow;7876083]With more information coming out about Shadow, I'm curious to hear what other's feel about Rise's significance in the Survivor trilogy.

Many seem to see Rise as being trivial. I can see why. It doesn't add too much to the mythology. But I think that's for a reason.

After watching the CGI trailer a couple of times, Lara's line of "We Become Who We're Meant To Be" really took on a new meaning. TR13 was Lara's beginning's. We see her gain the skills she needs as a Tomb Raider. Shadow, from all that we've heard, seems to be Lara actually becoming the Tomb Raider.

I think Rise is all about destiny and fatalism. I think it's significance lies in Lara exploring who she is. Rise get's a lot of flak for Lara seemingly going on this adventure because of her father, and it [B][U]certainly seems that way on the surface but I think it's more than that. I think that Lara sets out on finding Kitezh because she believes it's her destiny. I think she chooses to go on this whole adventure because it's her way of finding out who she is.[/U][/B]

While Shadow is actually going to show Lara becoming the Tomb Raider, in Rise, I think we saw Lara become Lara Croft.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry but I completely disagree with this. I have absolutely no idea where you got the idea Lara believes she has a destiny, except from the trailers. She doesn't say anything remotely similar in the game [I]at all.[/I]

Also it is quite clear Lara's reason for setting to Siberia is stopping Trinity but her [I]motivation[/I] is proving her father was right and understanding his work, so she could use the Divine Source for making the world a happier, pain free place and clearing Richard's disgraced name.

She is much more concerned about her father during her inner monologues than she is about anything else, so it's clear they did not tell the story they were trying to.

TrustyBow 08-05-18 03:34

[QUOTE=Mickybyrne20;7876108]

The reboot and Rise should have been one game. One gigantic game, actually. Then it might have had some real significants. As stand alone games they're rather basic.
[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure if that would work. The first game was Lara being forced to survive whereas Rise is about her choice to go on an adventure. I think combining the two takes away the relevancy of the two themes.

[QUOTE=VictorXD;7876202]I'm sorry but I completely disagree with this. I have absolutely no idea where you got the idea Lara believes she has a destiny, except from the trailers. She doesn't say anything remotely similar in the game [I]at all.[/I]

Also it is quite clear Lara's reason for setting to Siberia is stopping Trinity but her [I]motivation[/I] is proving her father was right and understanding his work, so she could use the Divine Source for making the world a happier, pain free place and clearing Richard's disgraced name.

She is much more concerned about her father during her inner monologues than she is about anything else, so it's clear they did not tell the story they were trying to.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry, but I refuse to believe Lara would go through all that she went through just to clear her Fathers name. That's not enough of a motivator. Yes she talks about how she wants to prove him right, but the way she goes about it is so obsessive that you can tell it's not just about him. This is especially apparent from what we've heard about Shadow.

*****Spoilers****



In the demo, Lara is obsessing over an artifact and comes across as narcissistic. I think Rise was the start of this side of Lara.

Grizzly Bear 08-05-18 05:21

I think that Rise was necessary somehow, without it Lara's evolution would seem too fast.

AntRaidsTombs 08-05-18 07:43

I believe the daddy issues is going to play a minor part in Shadow, it seems it's focusing on Lara's mental state more.

Raban 08-05-18 08:05

Being the second in a trilogy is always problematic: You don't have the character- and plot-building, nor the excitement of a beginning adventure.
And you can't yet provide the big climax or resolution because bringing the ship to port is the third one's job. But you still must have some sort of climax because otherwise you don't have a full dramatic structure but just an appendix to the first part.

At the end of 2013th Tomb Raider, Lara is not only established as a capable survivor - with a big emphasis on taking responsibility and relying only on her own - but she also has a lead on her father's research, which serves not only as a drive for going on her following adventure but will also lead to her having some sort of closure with her past.
The second installment naturally spins this further: The question on what to do regarding the source develops the taking-responsibility-thread further. Her dealings with Trinity, Ana in particular, her experience when under Baba Yaga's "spell" and finally her exploration or re-discovery of her own home resolve her problematic relation to her dad. That gradually happening resolution is Rise's climax and binds the other threads together: Because of her father and a bit of luck or happenstance she has knowledge about something magical; that in turn connects her with Trinity, who want to use that magic for their sinister or whatever plans; since this knowledge is secret and hard to acquire she sees her self having the responsibility or moral obligation to stop Trinity.

So I don't think RotTR is trivial in the sense that it's superfluous or just an appendix. On the contrary, it has its own meaningful story-arc, and it provides the necessary informations and overall basis for the third part without just repeating the first installment and without spoiling the trilogy's ending. And that's pretty much what being the second in a trilogy is all about: setting the stage for the final by being an evolution of the first part.

Kelly Craftman 08-05-18 11:24

I think Rise had the daddy issues because in TReboot she saw something she couldn't explain without seeming crazy. Just like her Father went through. So having found out her father was right she saw him in a different light. Going though his stuff, finding out more about it. She then obviously found his last adventure and carried on. Whether it was to clear his name as well as her own; or she could prove to herself that she's not crazy either.

I didn't mind the "daddy issues" in Rise as it made sense, the movie (2018) is another matter completely and shouldn't have involved it.

As for Rise being significant in the trilogy? It's important but with TReboot being the opening and Shadow being the end, they're more focused on. Rise was just joining the two of them up, so it wasn't a huge leap from inexperienced to crazy lady with a bow.

Grimaldi 08-05-18 13:04

Whatever Rise tried to do, I don’t think it succeeded. It had strong material to work with, interesting avenues to explore, decent new characters/ideas, but no spark to really set a fire. I couldn’t tell you what Lara learned, what the lesson even was (immortality’s bad because...?), or why we should care about Trinity as we learned almost nothing significant about them. Lara’s development is eclipsed by the forced inclusion of her father, side characters flounder about, continuity took a vacation (without Jonah, fortunately). The most I can say is she gained more experience, acted more independently, and proved herself more by extension. But that’s it.

Shadow sounds much more like a sequel in my opinion, which makes me wonder why Rise couldn’t have been the last in the trilogy. Have her deal with her demons in the second game for her to rise in the third.

FanosCroft 09-05-18 08:35

For me, Rise Lara is the same as ending Reboot Lara, and I think we gonna see how Lara developed trough Rise by the beginning of Shadow.
Idk if it makes sense lol


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