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-   -   Dual Pistols Source of Animation for a Future Game? (https://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=222960)

Kurtis666 14-06-19 06:19

Dual Pistols Source of Animation for a Future Game?
 
I've seen some leaked gameplay of the Avengers game by Crystal Dynamics (which I'm not going to share due to copyrights reason) and their Black Widow section has a really good dual pistol gameplay foundation, if it's not already in the plan I think that Crystal Dynamics should re-purpose those Black Widow dual pistols animations for the next TR game.

laracroftswest 14-06-19 06:39

They have to want her to use them though. We certainly do :o

Vaskito 14-06-19 07:07

I'm certain some assets from the Avengers will be used in the next TR, including the duals gameplay, if they match how reboot TR combat works. As long as they don't dumb it down to auto-aim, bring it

biscuits 14-06-19 07:42

Yeah I've seen it. The dual wielding looks pretty good.

killchan 14-06-19 08:39

but of course.

with Avengers, Crystal had to start from a very specific, existing vision.
they couldn't do that with Tomb Raider. They had nothing to use as ref- OH NEVERMIND


jokes aside :ton:... this was yes another bland implementation of duals. she just targets 1 guy with 2 guns. just for show.
being able to target multiple bad guys at once would be much more interesting.
also the camera is a little too close...

it's flashy and visually impressive, but also limited, basic and almost impractical.

GRiannisRaider 14-06-19 09:53

I'm sure that in the next game we will see some very big changes to the gameplay because with the programming that they have done for the Avengers they have a base to start for the next game now . The dual pistols will come back to the next game because they now have the code working for black window :cln: This is exciting :D black window also has some really good gymnastic skills :p who knows :o

Maverin 14-06-19 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRiannisRaider (Post 8100028)
I'm sure that in the next game we will see some very big changes to the gameplay because with the programming that they have done for the Avengers they have a base to start for the next game now . The dual pistols will come back to the next game because they now have the code working for black window :cln: This is exciting :D black window also has some really good gymnastic skills :p who knows :o

I also think that we'll see them return eventually. They just wanted to make this reboot trilogy as they saw fit and it succeeded in my opinion. I really liked them.

Come to think of it, I never missed the duals in angel of darkness. They don't have to return for me, but I still see it happening one day. Which is great for it's hardcore fans.

Vaskito 14-06-19 10:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRiannisRaider (Post 8100028)
I'm sure that in the next game we will see some very big changes to the gameplay because with the programming that they have done for the Avengers they have a base to start for the next game now . The dual pistols will come back to the next game because they now have the code working for black window :cln: This is exciting :D black window also has some really good gymnastic skills :p who knows :o

I saw the leaked video. It's isn't too clear how it works, but it appears to have manual aim, so that's already a plus for me. Though, it looks a bit wonky, but maybe it's because Black Widow is a superhero (voiced by the AMAZING Laura Bailey, btw!) who's super fast. I can see that system being implemented and adapted into the next TR - and in TR they could add some special moves with the duals, like triggering a small slow-mo allowing Lara to shoot two different targets with the duals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverin (Post 8100033)
Come to think of it, I never missed the duals in angel of darkness. They don't have to return for me, but I still see it happening one day. Which is great for it's hardcore fans.

I agree. I prefer the bow by a large margin, but I can totally see the duals coming back. As long as they keep the bow, I'm all in

iWANEX 14-06-19 10:36

On one hand, I see nothing special about the duals and the way they are implemented in the Avengers game. It works exactly as if you used one.

On the other hand, it feels wrong to see Black Widow like this and not Lara. She even does some backflips. I don't know what they were thinking but the duals need to come back ASAP. Those are Lara Croft's signature weapons and there's certain elements you just can't erase about a character, sorry. Enough with the teasing. Both the bow and the pistols can co-exist perfectly.

Zsott 14-06-19 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by iWANEX (Post 8100038)
Those are Lara Croft's signature weapons and there's certain elements you just can't erase about a character, sorry. Enough with the teasing. Both the bow and the pistols can co-exist perfectly.

The whole absence of the duals is a mystery to me.
I mean even for the current Lara, they are important. The last physical remains of Roth, who was a father figure to her.
They got teased within 3 games...oh wait, they patched the original ending of SoTR... 2 games. And even concept arts showing, that she should have gotten them for a good chunk of the first game.

I'm curious whether was it a decision of Square E., or Crystal D. to not include them.

dcw123 14-06-19 11:28

This. It just strikes me as odd - heck the bloody movie ended with them..
Movie 'reboot' Lara felt much more Lara like to me, I liked the portrayed (even with the stupid father stuff)

I hate the bow - the only good thing it is for is stealth kills..
It does however make the game FAR too easy when using gas or explosive arrows.. it totally sucks any difficulty out of the game (maybe way they are so attatched to it)

The bow was a trend fad of the early 2010's and needs to die IMO
Bring back duals and other guns

I always used guns in the Reboot games and never used the bow unless I was forced to - felt much more TR like using shotguns or assault rifles

Zebra 14-06-19 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by killchan (Post 8100024)
but of course.

with Avengers, Crystal had to start from a very specific, existing vision.
they couldn't do that with Tomb Raider. They had nothing to use as ref- OH NEVERMIND


jokes aside :ton:... this was yes another bland implementation of duals. she just targets 1 guy with 2 guns. just for show.
being able to target multiple bad guys at once would be much more interesting.
also the camera is a little too close...

it's flashy and visually impressive, but also limited, basic and almost impractical.

Being able to manually target two characters at once would be a bloody nightmare. Like, I guarantee you that you would have an incredibly hard time trying to accurately hit anything with that kind of system. I think it'll either have to be a system like what they've got here where you use both guns on the same target or a system like in WET where you only aim one of the two guns manually and the other one uses auto-aim.

Tombraider95 14-06-19 12:20

I've seen the leaked footage and from what I can see, I really like the animation of firing both together. It would have fit perfectly in the reboot but oh well. It's so dumb that you just gotta laugh. Hopefully CD/SE will stay with The Avengers and leave TR alone now.

Samz 14-06-19 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by iWANEX (Post 8100038)
On one hand, I see nothing special about the duals and the way they are implemented in the Avengers game. It works exactly as if you used one.

On the other hand, it feels wrong to see Black Widow like this and not Lara. She even does some backflips. I don't know what they were thinking but the duals need to come back ASAP. Those are Lara Croft's signature weapons and there's certain elements you just can't erase about a character, sorry. Enough with the teasing. Both the bow and the pistols can co-exist perfectly.

Because then they don't have their excuse for why they're completely different games from the older ones.

biscuits 14-06-19 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tombraider95 (Post 8100054)
I've seen the leaked footage and from what I can see, I really like the animation of firing both together. It would have fit perfectly in the reboot but oh well. It's so dumb that you just gotta laugh. Hopefully CD/SE will stay with The Avengers and leave TR alone now.

Highly unlikely. They'll probably give it to Crystal Northwest or Eidos Montreal.

Matie 14-06-19 12:33

No duals in any of the reboot games other than teasing it, and now the Black Widow having it instead is kind of like a slap in the face to the TR fanbase who have been missing it since 2013. It does mean there's a bigger chance of the duals being featured in the next TR game, but I'm not getting my hopes up yet again, only to be disappointed about this once more.

iWANEX 14-06-19 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samz (Post 8100056)
Because then they don't have their excuse for why they're completely different games from the older ones.

Being different from the older games doesn't mean it's something negative. AOD was very different, same as LAU. I love the reboot games and Reboot Lara and I want them to keep expanding this era because there's so much more potential. Certainly much more than any other era. But the duals need to come back, sorry. I couldn't care less about the shorts or the braid because we've seen her with different looks throughout the years. But the duals have always been present one way or another (even in the reboot). I just think we should be able to use them in the next game, specially when they created them for another character that's not Lara (not gonna lie, that BW leaked video hurts so much).

If they are not back in the next game I'm going to be very disappointed.

ESCachuli 14-06-19 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zebra (Post 8100053)
Being able to manually target two characters at once would be a bloody nightmare. Like, I guarantee you that you would have an incredibly hard time trying to accurately hit anything with that kind of system. I think it'll either have to be a system like what they've got here where you use both guns on the same target or a system like in WET where you only aim one of the two guns manually and the other one uses auto-aim.

They could add a system similar to RDR2. It would be cool.

Tombraider95 14-06-19 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by biscuits (Post 8100058)
Highly unlikely. They'll probably give it to Crystal Northwest or Eidos Montreal.

Just give TR to someone who can make a true Tomb Raider experience and who understands Lara Croft as a character. No more building up to something which was completely wasted imo.

biscuits 14-06-19 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tombraider95 (Post 8100062)
Just give TR to someone who can make a true Tomb Raider experience and who understands Lara Croft as a character. No more building up to something which was completely wasted imo.

Honestly at this point I wouldn't be surprised of they put the series on the shelf for a while. It's what they did to Deus Ex when it disappointed sales wise.

I just don't trust Square with most of their games. Let alone Tomb Raider. They don't know how to manage their studios or games.

Vaskito 14-06-19 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by biscuits (Post 8100063)
Honestly at this point I wouldn't be surprised of they put the series on the shelf for a while. It's what they did to Deus Ex when it disappointed sales wise.

I just don't trust Square with most of their games. Let alone Tomb Raider. They don't know how to manage their studios or games.

IDK, SE made sure Shadow wouldn't be less budgeted than its predecessor. IDK how you look at them as the bad guys

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tombraider95 (Post 8100062)
Just give TR to someone who can make a true Tomb Raider experience and who understands Lara Croft as a character. No more building up to something which was completely wasted imo.

They made a separate Lara Croft, so they could create her within their own vision, and left classic Lara Croft untouched in her original form. It's not like they picked on Classic Lara and changed her all around with misinterpretations of her

biscuits 14-06-19 13:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaskito (Post 8100064)
IDK, SE made sure Shadow wouldn't be less budgeted than its predecessor. IDK how you look at them as the bad guys

I'm not making them out as the bad guys. I just think they're grossly incompetent. Their western division has been nothing but greatly mismanaged lately. They had Eidos Montreal cut their new Deus Ex game to produce a quick sequel (making the game appear somewhat unfinished), Just Cause 4 was a huge mess at launch, and let's not forget the exclusivity deal with Rise.

Square's more low budget games have fared a lot better lately.

Tombraider95 14-06-19 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaskito (Post 8100064)
They made a separate Lara Croft, so they could create her within their own vision, and left classic Lara Croft untouched in her original form. It's not like they picked on Classic Lara and changed her all around with misinterpretations of her

Well for me they kinda have because she's still called "Lara Croft", and their "vision" was so poorly planned it's been a mess. They should have just made a new character.

CroftManiac05 14-06-19 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tombraider95 (Post 8100062)
Just give TR to someone who can make a true Tomb Raider experience and who understands Lara Croft as a character. No more building up to something which was completely wasted imo.

Amen to that.

Vaskito 14-06-19 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by biscuits (Post 8100065)
Square's more low budget games have fared a lot better lately.

Isn't this more related to the devs instead?

Also, pretty certain after SOTTR, you can bet the next TR game will likely have a way lower budget (but I don't see it being shelved yet), and some sort of soft-reboot, going back to basics, which is saddening. Some of you may enjoy whatever comes next if this becomes true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tombraider95 (Post 8100066)
Well for me they kinda have because she's still called "Lara Croft", and their "vision" was so poorly planned it's been a mess. They should have just made a new character.

And they did make a new character. Reboot Lara is a different character than Classic Lara. The reboot was a clean canvas for them to do what they want, in full, instead of being hindered by the past like they were with LAU.
Classic Lara, as I said, was left untouched, so why are you taking issue with they creating a new version? It's simply because of the name? Because if they changed her name, classic Lara still wouldn't be back in the newest games...

Tombraider95 14-06-19 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaskito (Post 8100069)
And they did make a new character. Reboot Lara is a different character than Classic Lara. The reboot was a clean canvas for them to do what they want, in full, instead of being hindered by the past like they were with LAU.
Classic Lara, as I said, was left untouched, so why are you taking issue with they creating a new version? It's simply because of the name? Because if they changed her name, classic Lara still wouldn't be back in the newest games...

Because their new version has been an unplanned mess. Actually they should have just made this a new IP, instead of trying to appeal to the TR fan base, making something very different, slapping the same name on the cover and calling it their "vision".

They're doing the same with The Avengers now it looks like, although at least Black Widow has her duals.

Vaskito 14-06-19 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tombraider95 (Post 8100073)
Because their new version has been an unplanned mess. Actually they should have just made this a new IP, instead of trying to appeal to the TR fan base, making something very different, slapping the same name on the cover and calling it their "vision".

It still wouldn't bring back Classic TR/Lara.
The franchise was put on their hands, and something had to be done to make it profitable. It worked for them. It worked for me. It didn't for you, and other people. That's life. We don't always get what we want

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tombraider95 (Post 8100073)
They're doing the same with The Avengers now it looks like, although at least Black Widow has her duals.

I have no knowledge on the Avengers, but I did read people saying the games were based on the comics, not the movies - and that the movies went out of the way vs the original comics - though, I have no idea how much of this is true. Regardless, it's too early too judge, imo

Lyle Croft 14-06-19 13:44

Looks a bit clunky, but :)

BUT HOLY **** THE ****ING GYMNASTICS. BLACK WIDOW...

CD better bring it if they are developing the next TR.

I always knew it was possible. I swear some games have acrobatics with manual aim implemented. :p. UNLESS it was auto-aim assist enabled? Idk. can't tell from these lq videos if it's manual aim.

And CD did a nice job on the hair! It looks like mesh hair? But wow, did they bring along a naughty dog guy? :o i'm impressed tbh

Vaskito 14-06-19 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyle Croft (Post 8100078)
Post

God no. I don't want that over the top acrobatics at all. A little more acrobacy, to some degree? Sure, but please not something over the top.

Oh, and that vid reminded me once again how much I need Lara to have proper hand-to-hand combat next game, after her training it in the comics, and displaying it in that "Don't try me" scene

Tombraider95 14-06-19 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaskito (Post 8100075)
It still wouldn't bring back Classic TR/Lara.
The franchise was put on their hands, and something had to be done to make it profitable. It worked for them. It worked for me. It didn't for you, and other people. That's life. We don't always get what we want

It worked because they stripped the first Reboot game back so much it barely resembles TR. So it might as well have been a new IP. That's my point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaskito (Post 8100075)
I have no knowledge on the Avengers, but I did read people saying the games were based on the comics, not the movies - and that the movies went out of the way vs the original comics - though, I have no idea how much of this is true. Regardless, it's too early too judge, imo

Well since the majority of comments have been regarding the absence of Hawkeye, I can say it's not off to a good start.

Vaskito 14-06-19 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tombraider95 (Post 8100080)
It worked because they stripped the first Reboot game back so much it barely resembles TR. So it might as well have been a new IP. That's my point.

Would it make it any difference to you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tombraider95 (Post 8100080)
Well since the majority of comments have been regarding the absence of Hawkeye, I can say it's not off to a good start.

Didn't they say they'd be adding more heroes in the future?

Nigel Cassidy 14-06-19 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tombraider95 (Post 8100066)
Well for me they kinda have because she's still called "Lara Croft", and their "vision" was so poorly planned it's been a mess. They should have just made a new character.

In all fairness, it could have been a lot worse. Like Disney's Star Wars films who are blatantly insulting the George Lucas trilogy and the characters in it. TR's reboot just ignores the old games...

Vaskito 14-06-19 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Cassidy (Post 8100083)
TR's reboot just ignores the old games...

Exactly. I'd understand frustrations if, like I said my posts, they've picked up on classic Lara and changed her instead. At least they had the decency of leaving her untouched in her prime form, and created a separate new version instead. I think both parties win.

Just as I hope once they're done with reboot Lara, they leave her alone, and create a new version, instead of making a personality transplant and change her to back to the monotone type of character of the past

larafan25 14-06-19 14:13

If Crystal Dynamics (or whoever) had an appreciation for Tomb Raider then we would not be here talking about this. There is nothing to be confused about. Know your history I guess. But of course many here do not have an appreciation for Tomb Raider, and so, have not noticed it’s absence. Not that we don’t want double guns for the ponytail girl to hold.

Tombraider95 14-06-19 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaskito (Post 8100081)
Would it make it any difference to you?

Yes. Let's say the franchise was called "Survivor". It had the same basic story as TR2013, but had it's own female character, I'd be a lot less bothered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaskito (Post 8100081)
Didn't they say they'd be adding more heroes in the future?

I dunno. But this decision has already made a bad impact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Cassidy (Post 8100083)
In all fairness, it could have been a lot worse. Like Disney's Star Wars films who are blatantly insulting the George Lucas trilogy and the characters in it. TR's reboot just ignores the old games...

I haven't watched those so I can't really judge. But yes it could be worse, but it also could be a lot better, and that's what I want Tomb Raider to be. Better.

Vaskito 14-06-19 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tombraider95 (Post 8100088)
Yes. Let's say the franchise was called "Survivor". It had the same basic story as TR2013, but had it's own female character, I'd be a lot less bothered.

Again, doing it would have the exact same result for you. Classic TR and Classic Lara wouldn't come back anyway

Amunet 14-06-19 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tombraider95 (Post 8100088)
Yes. Let's say the franchise was called "Survivor". It had the same basic story as TR2013, but had it's own female character, I'd be a lot less bothered.

I completely agree with you. The names "Lara Croft" and "Tomb Raider" come with certain expectations no matter how much they insist on "forget everything you know". I would certainly be able to enjoy the Reboot character a lot more if she wasn't called Lara Croft.

Legends 14-06-19 14:24

I've also seen the leaked gameplay and Black Widow basically looks like the LAU move-set with an upgrade. It's like they took the Legend engine and re-worked it to fit the Avengers, what the hell Crystal? I hope Square Enix gives Tomb Raider to competent people next time. Absolutely sick of Crystal after seeing this.

Tombraider95 14-06-19 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaskito (Post 8100090)
Again, doing it would have the exact same result for you. Classic TR and Classic Lara wouldn't come back anyway

If CD had made a new IP, by now Tomb Raider could be in someone else's hands. That could have happened.

I don't necessarily want Classic TR and Classic Lara back how you imagine it. Reboot just seems the extreme opposite for me. I want a happy medium.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amunet (Post 8100091)
I completely agree with you. The names "Lara Croft" and "Tomb Raider" come with certain expectations no matter how much they insist on "forget everything you know". I would certainly be able to enjoy the Reboot character a lot more if she wasn't called Lara Croft.

:tmb:

Vaskito 14-06-19 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amunet (Post 8100091)
I completely agree with you. The names "Lara Croft" and "Tomb Raider" come with certain expectations no matter how much they insist on "forget everything you know". I would certainly be able to enjoy the Reboot character a lot more if she wasn't called Lara Croft.

You could also enjoy her a lot more if you accepted that she's a new different version of Lara Croft, like there were in the past, and like there will be in the future.

"Certain Expectations" are down to each individual. I didn't have those expectations when I was told it would be a complete reboot. As a long fan of the Tomb Raider, I enjoyed and aproved the changes and new take, Which one of us is right in this instance?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tombraider95 (Post 8100094)
If CD had made a new IP, by now Tomb Raider could be in someone else's hands. That could have happened.

No it could not. TR was put in CDs hands for a reason - it stopped working with its old formula, and stopped being profitable. Their first attempt kept it pretty familiar, in a modernized way, and it also didn't work. They did something more drastic then, and it did work.
Turning the reboot into a new IP would only result in the TR brand being shelved, nothing else.


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