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-   -   Meta2tr update. (https://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=135733)

tomb2player 25-11-16 17:22

What I would like to have is properly working "grey box button", or other option which works similar way. So I can place this option on the squares on which I don't want to have boxes. And on those squares, boxes are not created, as well enemies can't walk on them.
Unfortunately, grey box button adds more boxes.

DJ Full 25-11-16 17:49

Grey boxes don't add "more boxes" but "negative boxes" or something like that.
Anyway, to counter a box info, you need a counter-info, so the amount of infos grows, yep.

tomb2player 25-11-16 17:54

Anyway it fill the limit, so it does not matter I guess. As far as I know, no matter how grey boxes are placed on the map, they always will add more boxes... from what I have seen after many tests.

EDIT: Hm... maybe if this grey box button can't be fixed ( Hardcoded or something ), I wonder if this option could be added to Meta2TR, so we can place it on the proper sectors through metasequia...

psiko 25-11-16 20:51

tomb2player, do you mean, editing grey boxes inside metasequoia? it is already possible.
and btw, every level should be floor-edited inside metasequoia by meta2tr, even if only with a minor change just to let the program recalculate all the enemy boxes: their amont results a lot reduced, cause of better calculation by meta2tr itself of actual boxes that are going to used by actual enemies inserted in the map. In this way, a level that inside ngle reaches the limit, can be fine once meta2tr-ed and once in game :)

tomb2player 25-11-16 20:54

No, I mean to have "alternative grey box button" - one that don't fill boxes limit.

HeinzFritz 25-11-16 22:42

@Psiko, do you maybe know if there will be an update to meta2tr in the near future?

DJ Full 26-11-16 06:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by psiko (Post 7685358)
every level should be floor-edited inside metasequoia by meta2tr just to let the program recalculate all the enemy boxes: their amont results a lot reduced

Still, it would be great to have a program which shows how the editor arranges them.
It would help anytime you have a huge map you cannot split, and using meta2tr is not an option.

TombGuardian 26-11-16 08:18

Anyone can explain me what's meta2tr and what it does? :o
Thanks :)

HD86 12-12-16 06:51

Hello,

I import a level into meta2tr.exe and the app exports the tiles and mqo files. I change materials, delete some tiles, and hit "delete unused materials" in the mqo files, and then import everything back into meta2tr.exe, and the app creates a newlevel.tr4.

When I import this newlevel.tr4 into meta2tr again, it exports all the original tiles which I deleted. Does this mean that the app does not really remove unused tiles from the level?

Titak 12-12-16 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by TombGuardian (Post 7685458)
Anyone can explain me what's meta2tr and what it does? :o
Thanks :)

You can edit the looks of your level with it, like making the roomgeometry less blocky.
Check the first page of this thread to find the link to the Meta2TR homepage where you can read more about it. :D

HD86 12-12-16 19:32

I have made some experiments and I am pretty sure that the app does not delete unused tiles. If a tile is imported once, it will remain stored forever in "do_not_delete." It can only be overwritten but not deleted. This applies even to tiles that were never used in the level. This can cause your level size to grow very big if you are unaware of it.

tomb2player 12-12-16 19:41

So it seems that only way is to process whole level again, this time without those textures, so repeat whole thing again - remove unused textures, compile level through NG_Tom2PC, export through Meta2tr .TR4 file generated by NG_Tom2PC, make all changes in metasequia, etc.

But anyway, if textures are not used, only stored in .TR4 file, they should not cause performance (FPS) drop in game. It only as you mentioned affect file size.

HD86 12-12-16 21:12

You are right. I have already made a copy of my level and wad without most of the textures. I am adding the textures only through Meta2tr to avoid unnecessarily increasing the level size.

The last level I made had about 300 tiles stored in it. Most of them were unused. The download size was much bigger than necessary.

tomb2player 05-02-17 23:55

Is there limit of tiles per one project in metasequia? I mean 256x256 texture pages. And what about tex infos? Can I have this more or less 32000, which is the limit for TRNG?

Can I fit for example 1000 texture pages and 32000 tex infos on them in one project? By project I mean .mqo file. I don't think that I will ever use this amount in one level, but out of curiosity.

VictorXD 08-02-17 19:26

*small bump* sorreh mods

^ I'd like to know that too :pi:

Mordyga 21-02-17 09:48

I have a problem, I want to import new tile with magenta elements. Everything is fine but there is a black color instead transparency on the object.
I checked the BMP file but it is fine with 255,0,255 values. How can I fix this?

New Dwight 21-02-17 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordyga (Post 7714925)
I have a problem, I want to import new tile with magenta elements. Everything is fine but there is a black color instead transparency on the object.
I checked the BMP file but it is fine with 255,0,255 values. How can I fix this?

You must move the UV polygons onto the transparency section of the UV Grid.
Move all the polygons above the texture tile.

EDIT:

If it hasn't been shown yet:
To use transparency in meta2tr:

Every object, including strpix objects have UV polygons - a they are UV mapped.
Use the Rect tool to select all UV polygons:

Newer version of Metasequoia:
https://s21.postimg.org/k5s0jg4mv/use_rect.png

Older version of Metasequoia:
https://s9.postimg.org/msvyuel2n/Untitled.png

Now, use the MOVE tool and move the polygons to the transparency zone.
Make sure all UV polygons are within the zones, or you'll get a ton of UV point errors when importing it in meta2tr.

https://s21.postimg.org/82movvtkn/moved.png

Tutorial from meta2tr site:

https://s14.postimg.org/8vfmulb2p/UV...ects_small.gif

https://sites.google.com/site/meta2t...tics/texturing

psiko 16-05-17 23:12

Seems like meta2tr site has gone definitely off line... does anyone know anything? or it simply moved on a different host service? Does anyone have all those pages saved for off-line consulting?

I've been not hearing any news from him for at least 2 years or so.. I hope he is fine and this is just temporary..

Joey79100 16-05-17 23:49

He has edited the OP last month. He doesn't have the time to maintain the site, but he has put links to the latest versions of everything anyway.

VictorXD 17-05-17 00:08

Here's an offline version for viewing in case someone needs it

https://www.mediafire.com/?8dl2abzc2eiz0bb

psiko 17-05-17 00:30

thank you, I missed his update on the OP, I needed to direct a young LD I as helping, to those tutorial and discovered it went closed, so I had to send him to watch my YT videos, which aren't exactly for beginners... especially those who want to rush a bit.
Good thing there's an offline zipped file, I downloaded it :) thank you :)

Titak 17-05-17 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by VictorXD (Post 7743036)
Here's an offline version for viewing in case someone needs it

https://www.mediafire.com/?8dl2abzc2eiz0bb

Thank you!!!!

Perhaps I should upload it to our server here and also put a link in the Tools section of INDEX thread in the Tutorials section. :ponder:

LoreRaider 17-05-17 15:38

Thank you Victor, that would be useful for me, I would try to use that great tool for my next level, without tutorials I couldn't do that I think :p

VictorXD 18-05-17 03:15

No problem guys, I'm glad it could useful :)

LeelooBastet 19-11-17 17:08

Thank you too :)

Titak 06-08-18 12:12

How come Metasequoia gives me a lower number of vertices than meta2tr does? :confused.

Meta says I have nearly 8000 while meta2tr says I have 8141. :confused:
This is kinda annoying because Meta says I'm within the limit, and then meta2tr says the game will crash due to having crossed the limit...

Which should I trust in this case? :ponder:

JMN 06-08-18 15:53

A quick test here shows the numbers match between Meta and meta2tr. Even upped the vertices in one room to over 16k.

Dumb question, but are you sure you selected all the vertices in meta and you're looking at the vertex count and not faces?

Titak 06-08-18 19:56

I've been using "Obj Prop" to check the vertice count of the selected room.
And yes, I have been looking at vertices and not faces. Faces are way more than the vertices due to having quite a bit of double-sided faces on plants.

I'll try selecting the whole thing and then see what amount of vertices it gives me. :D

psiko 07-08-18 07:52

Both values are correct.


You have less than 8000 vertices in metasequoia because that's the amont of them once you merged different geometry and welded the vertices to earn some resources.
But meta2tr is importing a higher amont of vertices because tomb4.exe engine cannot handle same vertices with multiple vertex color values.

When you merged that geometry you probably had different vertex colors in them, one for each mesh they belonged, and meta2tr, to keep your illumination is forced to split again those vertices when importing, even if you welded them before.


To avoid this, and have the less amont of vertices, import first your geometry as it is now, even if it gives a higher amont of geometry: it is still compatible and without errors as the limit is 8192 vertices (even if I suggest to not go over 7800 vertices per room, because you could have Lara wrongly lit inside of those rooms, expecially is she performs custom animations).
Then, in your mqo file, save a temporary roomall with that room having all vertices with "pure white" illumination, that is they must have vertex color 255,255,255 as rgb values: this pure white is telling meta2tr to consider those vertices as "not lit" so it will use data stored in the "donotdelete" file to calculate illumination for them.
After you import this new un-lit room, use the "newlevel method", that is, to drag onto meta2tr the newlevel.tr4 file, because this is still compatible with your previous files, as it has same meta-geometry and all the tiles you are using. Then, use from now on, the new roomall.mqo file extracted from newlevel.tr4 file, and that specific room (with less than 8000 vertices) will have still less than 8000 vertices, but the isolated vertices that were going to be split, will be no longer, as meta2tr, thanks to donotdelete file, had calculated an average illumination for those.

This can be done for each room to earn resources/vertices: just weld all vertices in each room, and then color the entire level with pure white, finally use the "newlevel method" to still have a roomall compatible with previous extraction and all your new files.

Titak 07-08-18 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by psiko (Post 7943790)
vertices with multiple vertex color values.

Does this also happen when you manually light vertices?
Because that's what I have done a lot with plants I imported into the roomgeometry. :ponder:

Either way, I'll try your suggestion.
Thanks! :tmb:


*** EDIT ***
Looks like manually lighting the vertices does indeed increase the amount of vertices when converting with meta2tr.
The number of vertices now matched the number I see in Meta. :D
So now I should see which way of lighting I like better in this case. Because I like the plants to be a bit on the bright side in this level.

psiko 07-08-18 09:44

Glad you solved :)
About your question, manual coloring can affect number of vertices using meta2tr. If vertices are welded, and later you color them, with vertices option, no problem. But if you color the FACES, that is the whole polygon at once, this likely will create those multiple colored vertices on next polygons. That's what probably you did coloring sides of those plants pollygons differently :)

Titak 07-08-18 11:59

Ah, yes, I did colour the polygons in some cases.
That's a lot quicker than clicking on every vertex...

The lighting on the plants is acceptable now.
So I don't think I'll need to manually adjust it anymore.
And in case I do want to change it in some places, I'll make sure to go the slow way and click on each vertex. :D

This is for my One Room level, hence the struggle to keep it within limits but also detailed at the same time. :D

A_De 07-08-18 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by psiko (Post 7943818)
Glad you solved :)
About your question, manual coloring can affect number of vertices using meta2tr. If vertices are welded, and later you color them, with vertices option, no problem. But if you color the FACES, that is the whole polygon at once, this likely will create those multiple colored vertices on next polygons. That's what probably you did coloring sides of those plants pollygons differently :)

What? :confused:
Omg, so there is no way to trick the engine :o
Looks like this is the same thing like that which happens when you split faces in meta to make so-called "hard edges" or separated normals for adjacent faces :ponder:

Joey79100 07-08-18 15:55

^
By the looks of it, it's exactly what happens actually. :ponder:

teme9 11-08-18 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by A_De (Post 7944059)
What? :confused:
Omg, so there is no way to trick the engine :o
Looks like this is the same thing like that which happens when you split faces in meta to make so-called "hard edges" or separated normals for adjacent faces :ponder:

Vertex can only have one normal. Using hard edges basically "mimics"(in lack of better word/explanation) of two separate vertices to create that hard edge thus creating additional vertices even though they're connected to each other. :D Here's a picture to clarify it a bit: http://wiki.polycount.com/w/images/e...Soft_doc-3.png

A_De 12-08-18 05:25

^ Yes, I'm aware of that thing, thanks :)
Guess you used this trick for making emeralds for your Frozen Throne? :D
I'm using this method too, mostly to make movable items to have proper lighting, i.e. pushable blocks. This method suitable only for low-polys because it increases vertex count.
And seems that metasequoia does split vertices automaticly when applying the polygon/apex lighting.

teme9 12-08-18 08:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by A_De (Post 7947858)
^ Yes, I'm aware of that thing, thanks :)
Guess you used this trick for making emeralds for your Frozen Throne? :D
I'm using this method too, mostly to make movable items to have proper lighting, i.e. pushable blocks. This method suitable only for low-polys because it increases vertex count.
And seems that metasequoia does split vertices automaticly when applying the polygon/apex lighting.

Correct! :D I used this with the emeralds. Sadly there are downsides to this method like the increased vertex count and vertices getting separated from each other by the water waving effect (especially if you're under water).

But it really is worth it if you're using dynamic lighting on objects. Editing normals for the meshes can create a huge difference! Especially with grass/foliage :D

Also one less used/talked method is to use area weighted normals for the meshes: http://wiki.polycount.com/w/images/5/59/Wnormals.png

It really makes things look better if you're using small bevels for edges :D

LoreRaider 21-08-18 10:12

Is it possible to have the wave water effect in horizon meshes? I did followed the tutorial about changing the weight of the verticles at 0.10 or 0.30, but in game they don't move :/
Perhaps this works only on room geometry and objects merged into the room? :ponder:

Titak 21-08-18 14:36

It only works on roomgeometry as far as I know.

Like shine, which only works on animating objects and not on roomgeometry, unfortunately...

LoreRaider 09-09-18 12:07

^ I imagined that :o (btw I've forgot to reply :vlol: )

I have another problem, I'm following the tutorial for moving the leaves in my level (simulating the waves effect) so I select every verticle of the objects that I want to have the effect, and put 0.10, or 0.30, but when I import the Roomall.mqo file back, that effect doesn't work in game, the objects are merged into the geometry with the MapMergelist.txt file, so I guess it's not that the issue
Someone had this problem tho? Either 3.1 and 4 versions have this problem on my laptop :o
Here's the tutorial I've been talking about: http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=196545
P.S. I'm not using the "New_plant" object tip, because that's for being faster on apply the effect on them


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