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-   -   Larson... "Conway"? (https://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=221077)

LateRaider 04-11-18 20:57

Emailed Justin. The response I got:

"I haven't had an opportunity to check my old asset libraries yet. I
haven't forgotten your request though."


So, we wait. I honestly anticipate the answer being the same as the one I found: officially, he's just "Larson."

Assuming that's what happens, I suppose after that, we should look into tidying up some of the Wikis and letting Official Fansites know so they can be a little more accurate, if they even really care about a minor villain like Larson in the first place ahaha

LateRaider 22-12-18 06:04

Edit - whoops! Should have checked TR: Legend before I made ignorant claims. Ignore this.

LateRaider 22-11-19 14:52

Sorry to bump this old thread y'all, but Paul Douglas shed some light on this whole ordeal. I think it's a definitive answer at least for Core Design Larson.

https://twitter.com/cnhyv/status/1196557851034083328

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Douglas
Larson evolved out of Lars Kruger who was an Afrikaner in a similar role in the original design.
It's meant to be a surname. Vicky always spelt it Larsen in the script so perhaps that should be the definitive spelling.

so... this is a world shattering revelation. I'm losing my mind, what do we do now. My clown avatar is now especially relevant

MBog 22-11-19 21:39

Larsen just sounds wrong at this point... Even the pronouniation in the games is closer to the "o" variant than the "e" .

Wow I wasn't up to date with the investigation and reading through these last few pages I have to say everyone did a great job, especially you DaftRaider :tmb:
Hope we ll find the answer once and for all.

LateRaider 22-11-19 21:46

Honestly, at this point i think that the name conway doesnt exist in official canon. I could try justin again or morrigan if she has time. But as far as I'm concerned this is as close as we can get to official word.

So... Whats Larsen's first name y'all lmao

Also regarding pronunciation, in American and British English both, Larson and Larsen sound like Larss'in. So either or really works

Boobandie 23-11-19 00:14

So any chance Paul Douglas would be willing to share any more details about earlier versions of TR1? I'd love to know more about the original design with Lars Kruger. Was this when it was still a male lead? Were we at Laura or Lara Cruz? How did Nephilim and South American deities fit in?

There are so many little hints at other versions of the story, but few are more than a couple of paragraphs of a design document.

Samz 23-11-19 00:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by LateRaider (Post 8154243)
Honestly, at this point i think that the name conway doesnt exist in official canon. I could try justin again or morrigan if she has time. But as far as I'm concerned this is as close as we can get to official word.

So... Whats Larsen's first name y'all lmao

Also regarding pronunciation, in American and British English both, Larson and Larsen sound like Larss'in. So either or really works

....Tim.
:tea:

LateRaider 23-11-19 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samz (Post 8154266)
....Tim.
:tea:

Honestly, Timothy Larsen sounds pretty appropriate. Timmy J. Larsen, former soldier, kicked out for being a dumb-dumb.

I tweeted Morrigan but I understand she's busy with Avengers. We may not get a reply from her.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Boobandie (Post 8154264)
So any chance Paul Douglas would be willing to share any more details about earlier versions of TR1? I'd love to know more about the original design with Lars Kruger. Was this when it was still a male lead? Were we at Laura or Lara Cruz? How did Nephilim and South American deities fit in?

There are so many little hints at other versions of the story, but few are more than a couple of paragraphs of a design document.

he's been doing so pretty regularly as far as i'm aware. answering pretty much any tweet about TRI sent his way.

one thing he did answer is apparently, it did go from Laura Cruz (very early) to Lara Cruz. but it wasn't because they didn't think americans could pronounce Laura, it was because they wanted her to seem more extraordinary by giving her a variation on the name Laura. only the Croft half came from the phone book!

https://twitter.com/cnhyv/status/1194181384182599680

JoelCaesar 23-11-19 14:08

Larson
Lar...son

Larceny?

Guess he likes to steal things ;)

CroftManiac05 23-11-19 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoelCaesar (Post 8154383)
Larson
Lar...son

Larceny?

Guess he likes to steal things ;)

Larson
Lar...son

Lara's son?

:yik:

LateRaider 05-01-20 01:15

We've had another breakthrough. Remember some vague posts from the 2000's that claimed Larson's first name was Milo? Well, I found Gary Whitta's Tomb Raider Movie Script on a now-defunct TR website.

http://web.archive.org/web/200111091...ywhitta_1.html

There is no Milo Larson/Larsen. The character named Milo has a surname of "Trevelyan".

Here's the entire script in a text file, for the curious. https://www.mediafire.com/file/j4b5u...ript.docx/file

That puts another myth to rest, old though it may be. Still, I can't help but wonder where Conway came from in the first place. Who was Dr. Cheese?

dcw123 05-01-20 15:42

I just throught the 'Conway' part was added in later by Crystal in TRA to flesh out the characters (like how they gave the 'Skateboard Kid' an actual name)

Always thought Larson/Larsen was his first name - like Pierre

Ehh..

LateRaider 05-01-20 20:36

apparently we were all wrong. also here's my sources for the TRI guide. i borrowed it from archive.org and screenshotted the relevant excerpts. if anyone can provide pictures/scans from TR:A/TR:C's guides i'd be grateful

https://i.imgur.com/gu7XArc.png

https://i.imgur.com/4HBALpV.png

Mikky 11-01-20 20:27

Damn... Reading this thread is so effing weird. This must be a case of the Mandela Effect or something, because before this thread, I would have sworn on my future children's limbs that Larson is named "Larson Conway" in the TRA in-game biographies. Where did I even get that name from then? I wasn't part of the forums or even involved in the fandom back in 2007...

LateRaider 12-01-20 03:37

that is definitely mandela effect in action, yeah. you must've picked it up at some point or another and just feel like you've always known him as larson conway. the same thing happened with "milo larson"--people were so sure he had always been known as milo larson and yet the milo character's surname is trevelyan. it happens.

Rai 12-01-20 10:00

Even that TR1 guide can't make up its mind how to spell Larsen/Larson :p. I'm with Mikky, I thought Conway came from Anniversary. So strange, the whole thing.

tomee 12-01-20 15:21

Can I just say that I find it incredibly puzzling that it took us 11 years until someone noticed he's not actually called Conway in TRA. Like, we really all just took it for granted and nobody ever looked twice. This is mind boggling.

Excellent research LateRaider. This was a very nice read. I hope one day we get a definitive answer.

LateRaider 12-01-20 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rai (Post 8164785)
Even that TR1 guide can't make up its mind how to spell Larsen/Larson :p. I'm with Mikky, I thought Conway came from Anniversary. So strange, the whole thing.

the only missing pieces to the puzzle are scans or me seeing the relevant pages from the walkthroughs for TR:C and TR:A. unfortunately i lack the means to buy them at the moment so we have to go on zreen and paul's word for now

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomee (Post 8164852)
Can I just say that I find it incredibly puzzling that it took us 11 years until someone noticed he's not actually called Conway in TRA. Like, we really all just took it for granted and nobody ever looked twice. This is mind boggling.

Excellent research LateRaider. This was a very nice read. I hope one day we get a definitive answer.

thanks tomee. ideally we'd track down dr. cheese and ask them what the hell they were smoking--i mean where their sources are but that's nigh impossible now

TR1249 12-01-20 18:35

This is all so weird :o In the book "The offical Tomb Raider Files" he's also named Larson and in my TR1 Strategy Guide as well :o

LateRaider 15-01-20 00:30

This is a long shot, but would any owners of the TR: Chronicles and TR: Anniversary guidebooks be willing to provide scans/photos of the pages referencing Larson? I don't think it should be that many.


edit - won't make another post about this b/c apparently i'm not allowed to be proud of it but here https://www.tombraiderchronicles.com/headlines4227.html it was made into an article

KillerZ 05-02-20 10:06

I have an image from the anniversary Prima guide, and Larson has no second name there. On the side note...nor does Winston.

https://i.imgur.com/qhOeaix.png
https://i.imgur.com/OtgZOtu.png

LateRaider 04-03-20 05:41

you made me break my silence. thank you.

winston's surname is confirmed in legend. unless "conway" shows up somehow in TR:C's guide, i think we can consider this case closed.

unless jo or dr cheese want to come out of the woodwork lmao

LateRaider 30-05-20 19:39

zreen comes to the rescue again. confirmed Larson in TRC:'s guide and no mention of Conway.

https://i.imgur.com/dYbZn9L.png

i've also heard in TRI's code (level WADs?) he's referred to as Larson, not Larsen, so i think we can consider the Larsen spelling to be a holdover from prerelease, like Lara's braid or Lara Cruz. this stems from the amended TR Wiki due to my findings https://tombraider.fandom.com/wiki/L...meline)#Trivia

i know this case is closed but i just wanted to confirm it with my own eyes. thank you to everyone who participated. the only lingering question left is what the hell was dr. cheese thinking

Boobandie 05-06-20 03:17

We really should have clued onto Larsen/Larson being a last name sooner...

"Ah, the charming Mr. Larson. Has Pierre let you off the leash?"

LateRaider 05-06-20 03:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boobandie (Post 8203714)
We really should have clued onto Larsen/Larson being a last name sooner...

"Ah, the charming Mr. Larson. Has Pierre let you off the leash?"

honestly truly you're right. now we're stuck with a weirdass 2 surnames situation b/c no one ever called out dr. cheese.

it does seem like the spelling ultimately ended up as "larson" (there's more evidence for it being larson than larsen at this point. any final fantasy fans reminded of the aeris vs. aerith debate?) but i wish there was a fanon first name instead of a fanon surname.

i still like the name timothy jebediah larson :(

Mek 06-06-20 08:10

This is a fascinating research :D The story of how "Conway" became widely accepted is unbelievable! My personal experience is that before Tomb Raider Anniversary he was referred to as only Larson and, then, Crystals added the surname "Conway". I've always thought it was this way. Deep respect for LateRaider for exploring the topic and reaching the sources referring to Larson!

LateRaider 06-06-20 17:36

aw thank you very much! ♥ i still wonder how many other half-truths like this are in the TR fandom

on a funnier note, i've been trying to have my own dr. cheese moment and make up a first name for the villain rourke in SotTR. his name is adam. i'll be back with scans from PC PowerPlay tomorrow ;)

Rai 06-06-20 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by LateRaider (Post 8204219)
aw thank you very much! ♥ i still wonder how many other half-truths like this are in the TR fandom

on a funnier note, i've been trying to have my own dr. cheese moment and make up a first name for the villain rourke in SotTR. his name is adam. i'll be back with scans from PC PowerPlay tomorrow ;)

Adam? A bit too boyish for a rogue like Rourke, dontcha think? What I mean is, Adam seems like a nice clean cut lad you'd bring home to mum. :p

If Larson is Larson's surname, then I reckon his first name is Jed. Or Jethro.

Dermahn 07-06-20 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by LateRaider (Post 8202199)
i've also heard in TRI's code (level WADs?) he's referred to as Larson, not Larsen

We don't actually know that. The information in the wiki is false (actually, rereading the wiki, it doesn't specify which game...). There's no way to know the name Core Design gave each model internally. If you open a level in one of the fan tools, the names you'll see are names given by the community, not Core Design!

However, some TR4/5 development tools have been leaked years ago and he's indeed spelled "Larson" in TRC.

If you're curious about Larson's internal name in TR1, perhaps you could ask Paul Douglas on twitter, if you haven't already :)

LateRaider 08-06-20 08:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dermahn (Post 8204552)
We don't actually know that. The information in the wiki is false (actually, rereading the wiki, it doesn't specify which game...). There's no way to know the name Core Design gave each model internally. If you open a level in one of the fan tools, the names you'll see are names given by the community, not Core Design!

However, some TR4/5 development tools have been leaked years ago and he's indeed spelled "Larson" in TRC.

If you're curious about Larson's internal name in TR1, perhaps you could ask Paul Douglas on twitter, if you haven't already :)

I have, actually! He said that Vicky always spelled it Larsen in her Scripts. I'm assuming that we're back to dealing with the story of two names, then. Thank you for the information!

LateRaider 05-11-20 23:41

I found a small bit of info. Just some trivia on the name, really, because I've for certain found the originating source on this particular version of it.

The Gamepressure guide for TR:A calls him Larson Dawson. I can only find sites sourcing this guide for the surname and it never caught on. https://guides.gamepressure.com/tomb...de.asp?ID=3147

I also found a TRF thread talking about this oddity here. Shame on Mytly for lying! https://www.tombraiderforums.com/sho...d.php?t=153006

Rai 06-11-20 00:14

Well, Larson Dawson seems quite a tongue twister of a name, which probably contributed to why it didn't catch on, or is easily forgotten.

Famicom 08-01-21 00:09

I've had this Spanish guide for ages. It was edited in 1997 in Spain by the same distribution company that got us the game here back then: Proein Software. Apart from the cover, the book has no pictures whatsoever. Only text. By the looks of it, I'd say it has been poorly translated from English, but anyway. Here it is:

https://i.imgur.com/AbvzO4f.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/0oKY3nx.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/bvRYKV0.jpg

Now, about the Conway mystery: Larson's surname is mentioned in this webpage dedicated to Spanish dubbing/voiceover acting:

https://www.eldoblaje.com/datos/Fich...a.asp?id=12294

I don't think that specific webpage has been altered or updated in anyway since 2007. That's why I chose it over imdb and others. It doesn't prove anything we didn't know already, so...

I need to find some time to go through the tons of files related to TRA that I collected back in the day. Gotta find them first, though :facepalm:

Zebra 08-01-21 02:03

I love that we all just assumed it to be his first name when it's his last name LOL :vlol:. Great job investigating, LateRaider :tmb:!

LateRaider 16-01-21 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Famicom (Post 8267366)
I've had this Spanish guide for ages. It was edited in 1997 in Spain by the same distribution company that got us the game here back then: Proein Software.

Thanks for this! It's nice to see that the Larson spelling quickly took root.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Famicom (Post 8267366)
Now, about the Conway mystery: Larson's surname is mentioned in this webpage dedicated to Spanish dubbing/voiceover acting:

https://www.eldoblaje.com/datos/Fich...a.asp?id=12294

I don't think that specific webpage has been altered or updated in anyway since 2007. That's why I chose it over imdb and others. It doesn't prove anything we didn't know already, so...

They may have gotten the info from the Dr. Cheese thread, so I can't really say this is credible. Thank you, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Famicom (Post 8267366)
I need to find some time to go through the tons of files related to TRA that I collected back in the day. Gotta find them first, though :facepalm:

I would very much appreciate it! ♥

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zebra (Post 8267379)
I love that we all just assumed it to be his first name when it's his last name LOL :vlol:. Great job investigating, LateRaider :tmb:!

thanks Zebra. in hindsight it's strange people thought it was his first name :confused:

Enya Brennan 16-01-21 23:20

Not sure this will be a worthy contribution to the investigation, but I suddenly remembered I had my copy of the 20 Years of Tomb Raider book lying around and thought that maybe there’s a mention of the character somewhere inside. It says the following:
Quote:

He proceeded to tell how she claimed [the Philosopher’s Stone] in Rome, tailed by longtime rivals Larson Conway and Pierre DuPont.
The full page can be read here. The text above can be found in the lower right corner. The book was written by our very dear Meagan Marie, so perhaps this could be considered some sort of confirmation or she just knew as much as we do.

(Apologies if it’s already been posted)

LateRaider 17-01-21 00:00

Enya, thank you! No, it hasn't been posted yet. Well goddamn. I guess if it shows up in official materials, that means it's canon now, doesn't it? Regardless of its origins. She does get Pierre's surname wrong (To my knowledge it's always been Dupont with a lowercase p, and it's spelled as such in Anniversary.) but otherwise this is the smoking gun.

My mind is blown. This has to be one of the few cases of fanon unintentionally becoming canon. Probably all because Megan used TR Wikis and official fansites to verify her sources. Whoa.


Edit -
Quote:

Originally Posted by LateRaider (Post 7972218)
...Lmao, that makes me think of something silly. Wouldn't it be funny if it turns out Dr. Cheese made it up and even the official TR staff thought Conway was created internally?

LOOOOOOL NOT ME PREDICTING THIS WOULD HAPPEN

Mek 17-01-21 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by LateRaider (Post 8270057)
Enya, thank you! No, it hasn't been posted yet. Well goddamn. I guess if it shows up in official materials, that means it's canon now, doesn't it? Regardless of its origins. She does get Pierre's surname wrong (To my knowledge it's always been Dupont with a lowercase p, and it's spelled as such in Anniversary.) but otherwise this is the smoking gun.

It showed up only in a guide and not in the game. And it showed up only once and in the relation to Tomb Raider Chronicles. That Larson has never had a surname. Sorry, I have doubts if it makes it official. I would say that it is just an error in the guide.

Wooxman 17-01-21 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by LateRaider (Post 8270057)
Enya, thank you! No, it hasn't been posted yet. Well goddamn. I guess if it shows up in official materials, that means it's canon now, doesn't it? Regardless of its origins. She does get Pierre's surname wrong (To my knowledge it's always been Dupont with a lowercase p, and it's spelled as such in Anniversary.) but otherwise this is the smoking gun.

My mind is blown. This has to be one of the few cases of fanon unintentionally becoming canon. Probably all because Megan used TR Wikis and official fansites to verify her sources. Whoa.

I've read Pierres surname with an uppercase P several times.

You guys could ask Meagan on Twitter where she got the information about Larson's surname from.

LateRaider 17-01-21 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mek (Post 8270136)
It showed up only in a guide and not in the game. And it showed up only once and in the relation to Tomb Raider Chronicles. That Larson has never had a surname. Sorry, I have doubts if it makes it official. I would say that it is just an error in the guide.

it's the closest to an answer we have. in my opinion, it's official enough if it's by official crystal dynamics staff, regardless of whether or not she got it by checking wikiraider or the tomb raider fandom wiki

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wooxman (Post 8270201)
I've read Pierres surname with an uppercase P several times.

DuPont is fanon. it's always been Dupont. check the subtitles in TR:A and the scrolling text in the nGage port of TRI

https://i.imgur.com/KFTx2C0.png
https://i.imgur.com/x2C5GzF.png

Quote:

You guys could ask Meagan on Twitter where she got the information about Larson's surname from.
i did and she ignored me


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