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-   -   Shadow of the Tomb Raider - General Chat (https://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=219557)

Mani_Man 24-09-18 12:39

Ah, so you guys know people who dont recognize her...okay and?
Im not sure what makes someone think this argument works? Is this really how people want to argue?

The son of my uncle liked LAU lara more than classic...so now? what does that tell anybody?

What kind of argumentation are people trying to play here?
I dont really get it.

You know why the DMC reboot didnt work? Because people didnt recognize Dante in the new version and they had to scrap the whole thing.
That happens with many reboots...so what does it tell us that the general audience, reviewers, the gaming community etc support the Reboot for now 3 games?

That this fandom might not see resemblance to the characters is not new, after all...everybody here has created their very own version of Lara Croft that neither works with the classics, LAU or the reboot.
But there is a reason the Reboot of Tomb Raider has the success it has...and no that has nothing to do with SJW or because the "oh so dumb casuals who dont get anything"
Its because like it or not, people see a Lara Croft in the character that they like.
Might feel to some of you like a huge attack on Tomb Raider...but it is what it is.
You can try to downplay that and throw mothers, friends or uncles around...doesnt change the fact that the Reboot as a fact didnt fail despite rebooting a beloved character.

Swiz19 24-09-18 12:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mani_Man (Post 7988130)
Ah, so you guys know people who dont recognize her...okay and?
Im not sure what makes someone think this argument works? Is this really how people want to argue?

The son of my uncle liked LAU lara more than classic...so now? what does that tell anybody?

What kind of argumentation are people trying to play here?
I dont really get it.

You know why the DMC reboot didnt work? Because people didnt recognize Dante in the new version and they had to scrap the whole thing.
That happens with many reboots...so what does it tell us that the general audience, reviewers, the gaming community etc support the Reboot for now 3 games?

That this fandom might not see resemblance to the characters is not new, after all...everybody here has created their very own version of Lara Croft that neither works with the classics, LAU or the reboot.
But there is a reason the Reboot of Tomb Raider has the success it has...and no that has nothing to do with SJW or because the "oh so dumb casuals who dont get anything"
Its because like it or not, people see a Lara Croft in the character that they like.
Might feel to some of you like a huge attack on Tomb Raider...but it is what it is.
You can try to downplay that and throw mothers, friends or uncles around...doesnt change the fact that the Reboot as a fact didnt fail despite rebooting a beloved character.

Wow, defensive much? No one is 'arguing' anything, I was simply stating the opinion I had witnessed from a casual fan and how they could not recognise Lara Croft in the new iteration of her. This caused me to reflect on how others now perceive the franchise and how I do as well.

This is a Tomb Raider forum and I was discussing a viewpoint about the franchise which I have every right to do so. If you don't like it, fine, but no need to spout BS about the franchise failing, blah blah. Pretty sure no one mentioned that. You can have a perfectly successful franchise with aspects that aren't well received. This was not a negative discussion at all, remember that. Simply fans discussing their love of the original version of a character and how they would have liked to seen a different outcome.

Mani_Man 24-09-18 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swiz19 (Post 7988140)
Wow, defensive much? No one is 'arguing' anything, I was simply stating the opinion I had witnessed from a casual fan and how they could not recognise Lara Croft in the new iteration of her. This caused me to reflect on how others now perceive the franchise and how I do as well.

This is a Tomb Raider forum and I was discussing a viewpoint about the franchise which I have every right to do so. If you don't like it, fine, but no need to spout BS about the franchise failing, blah blah. Pretty sure no one mentioned that. You can have a perfectly successful franchise with aspects that aren't well received. This was not a negative discussion at all, remember that. Simply fans discussing their love of the original version of a character and how they would have liked to seen a different outcome.

Less to do with defensive and more to do with annoyed about this straw grasping argument.
Come up with something more beefy once in a while because that simply doesnt work and is BS.

I was simply stating that the whole straw grasping argument of how casual fans dont recognize the reboot as Lara croft is simply a extremely far reaching stretch.

Swiz19 24-09-18 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mani_Man (Post 7988155)
Less to do with defensive and more to do with annoyed about this straw grasping argument.
Come up with something more beefy once in a while because that simply doesnt work and is BS.

I was simply stating that the whole straw grasping argument of how casual fans dont recognize the reboot as Lara croft is simply a extremely far reaching stretch.

You reiterated the exact same thing in three different sentences. We get your point. If you don't want to discuss it, don't. Again no one is 'arguing', only you and I was making a perfectly valid discussion point from a casual fan - ignore it and don't hijack it like you have done.

Mani_Man 24-09-18 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swiz19 (Post 7988158)
You reiterated the exact same thing in three different sentences. We get your point. If you don't want to discuss it, don't. Again no one is 'arguing', only you and I was making a perfectly valid discussion point from a casual fan - ignore it and don't hijack it like you have done.

I want to discuss it, it was you who acted all defensive and passive aggressive.

I made the valid point of showing how the casual fan view can not be based on one person...simply as that.

Hazelphoenix 24-09-18 13:22

Iím really warming up to Shadow Lara. I view her more as her own thing rather than a character thatís bound to be shaped into a modernized classic Lara honestly, which is not even the devs goal ultimately and Iím fine with that. I miss classic Lara very much but as long as we can have a well-rounded character with an actual personality that doesnít act in a dramatic way 24/7 I can live with that.

Itís funny because I still stand by my opinion when it comes to reboot and Rise Lara, I just canít find them appealing enough for me to care, and I canít help but wonder whether I wouldíve been able to fully appreciate the reboot concept if Shadow was the first game of this universe. I like both the game itself and the main character, oddly enough.

Swiz19 24-09-18 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mani_Man (Post 7988161)
I want to discuss it, it was you who acted all defensive and passive aggressive.

I made the valid point of showing how the casual fan view can not be based on one person...simply as that.

Dude, what? You came into the discussion very aggressively, acting like we had no reason to be posting. Re-read what you wrote.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mani_Man (Post 7988161)
Ah, so you guys know people who dont recognize her...okay and?
Im not sure what makes someone think this argument works? Is this really how people want to argue?

Look how you 'want to discuss it'. Please. You keep saying we are arguing but the only person arguing is you, man. Your posts are full of assumptive aggression as if you're trying to fight with what we are going to say, rather than what we are actually saying.

I will reiterate for you one more time so you actually get it; I made a point of how Tomb Raider looks from a casual fans perspective. It wasn't to start an 'argument' like you keep saying, it was to express how I and others perceive the franchise now that the origin reboot is over and how I would have liked to seen things differently. Did I bash reboot Lara? No. Did I say the origin trilogy was awful? No. But you have come in with your assumptive mindset and tried arguing, yet you have called me passive aggressive, and defensive. Get out of here or start making sense.

spikesavenger 24-09-18 13:29

Anyone know when we should be expecting patch 1.04? There's...a lot of technical issues that need addressing because it's nearly unplayable.

Mani_Man 24-09-18 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swiz19 (Post 7988168)
Dude, what? You came into the discussion very aggressively, acting like we had no reason to be posting. Re-read what you wrote.

No i simply asked if that is really how people want to argue and debate the topic.
Why you think it was aggressive is beyond me, you shouldnt put words into other peoples mouths.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Swiz19 (Post 7988168)
Look how you 'want to discuss it'. Please. You keep saying we are arguing but the only person arguing is you, man. Your posts are full of assumptive aggression as if you're trying to fight with what we are going to say, rather than what we are actually saying.

I will reiterate for you one more time so you actually get it; I made a point of how Tomb Raider looks from a casual fans perspective. It wasn't to start an 'argument' like you keep saying, it was to express how I and others perceive the franchise now that the origin reboot is over and how I would have liked to seen things differently. Did I bash reboot Lara? No. Did I say the origin trilogy was awful? No. But you have come in with your assumptive mindset and tried arguing, yet you have called me passive aggressive, and defensive. Get out of here or start making sense.

Please go on, what are you saying?
All i see is you putting words in my mouth and nothing more.
Tell me what you want to say, what your point is.

I did say nothing else than that your one or two casual fans do in no way or form speak for the majority and that casual fans in general are favorable to the reboot and recognize the character for the most part.

If you can not go deeper with your point then fine, but i dont see why you try to spread toxicity by putting words in my mouth and trying to start a fight or so.

Telling me to get out of here just because you cant debat civil is not looking good on your part.
Maybe get some fresh air and come back to see things clearer instead of trying to start a fight for no reason.

Swiz19 24-09-18 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mani_Man (Post 7988173)
No i simply asked if that is really how people want to argue and debate the topic.
Why you think it was aggressive is beyond me, you shouldnt put words into other peoples mouths.




Please go on, what are you saying?
All i see is you putting words in my mouth and nothing more.
Tell me what you want to say, what your point is.

I did say nothing else than that your one or two casual fans do in no way or form speak for the majority and that casual fans in general are favorable to the reboot and recognize the character for the most part.

If you can not go deeper with your point then fine, but i dont see why you try to spread toxicity by putting words in my mouth and trying to start a fight or so.

Telling me to get out of here just because you cant debat civil is not looking good on your part.
Maybe get some fresh air and come back to see things clearer instead of trying to start a fight for no reason.

You're actually serious, aren't you? I implore you to actually read my original post and see that it wasn't argumentative at all, and in fact was a simple observation - not necessarily an opinion, but an observation of how someone had reacted to the film and how I felt about it.

You are the one who tried to turn this into a 'debat', hence why I haven't bothered responding with points. I wasn't looking for a 'debat', but simply wanted to state how it made me look at the franchise and how I would have wanted a different origin story and/or different characterisation of Lara. I don't need to back up my points as you say, because I am allowed to feel that way for any reason I see fit. You didn't need to come in here and tell me otherwise and patronise people by saying;

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mani_Man (Post 7988173)
Ah, so you guys know people who dont recognize her...okay and?
Im not sure what makes someone think this argument works? Is this really how people want to argue?

Don't kid yourself into pretending that you entered this discussion civilly. If you don't get that, then there's no reason to continue.


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