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-   -   Meta2tr update. (https://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=135733)

meta2tr 20-07-14 11:32

I just checked the last non-TRNG compatible version (NGLE 1.0.9.13), it saves with PROJFILE1, so it wouldn't cause this error.

HeinzFritz 20-07-14 11:35

I'll check the project out as soon as I return to my PC (this will be later in the afternoon) and let you know what the first line on my .prj file says.

meta2tr 20-07-14 11:38

Thanks.

HeinzFritz 20-07-14 17:33

I checked the .prj file. Indeed, the text is not PROJFILE1 but PROJFILE2. Then I randomly checked some other projects and they have the PROJFILE1 text.
Why the difference between projects exist I don't know as I have several starting template projects which are blank and when creating something new I start from one of those,
But they all seem technically similar...
Probably, simply changing this first line inside the project would make it work, (I will try it out later). If that's all it takes, I will simply create a modification of your tool by changing the reference from PROJFILE1 to PROJFILE2 and so have two versions and both possibilities covered with two .exe files.
Still I would like to know if the difference is fundamental or just cosmetic.

meta2tr 20-07-14 18:02

OK now I understand. It's because you used Paolone's MapConverter for 128x128 textures.

HeinzFritz 20-07-14 18:08

You are right. I remember now that I converted it to be able to experiment with bump maps and animation ranges.
In the meantime, I tried to change the line in the .prj file and it got processed without any further problems together with the .mqo file in your .exe.
I will continue these days to experiment with the other new features of your version 8 and will let you know the results.
Thanks!

meta2tr 20-07-14 18:31

It looks to me like everything will work, I need to do a few more tests to be sure.

A_De 20-07-14 20:48

Noooo! :(
Looks like Google sites are not available to me anymore :(

HeinzFritz 22-07-14 08:45

I am continuing the tests of the new features of version 8.
Here are some observations and / or mistakes I made so far:

1. The delete unused textures option works OK. Very usefull, by the way
2. The regroup tiles works, but I get more tiles when using it than when not.
3. The changing positions and orientation of moveables is fantastic
4. The changing orientation of statics I tried out to just to see if it is possible to create collision at an random angle instead of 90 or 45 with collision panels. It is either not possilbe or I am doing something wrong.

meta2tr 22-07-14 18:24

Thanks for the feedback HeinzFritz.

Regrouping textures uses more tiles as you say, because to make the tiles more "readable" for humans, they can't be packed as optimally as tom2pc packs them.

I've never used NGLE panel objects, perhaps their collision is hardcoded in Paolone's dll.

HeinzFritz 22-07-14 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by meta2tr (Post 7124431)
I've never used NGLE panel objects, perhaps their collision is hardcoded in Paolone's dll.

Neither did I use them as I am still on TREP and I have the intention to sick to it.
I simply meant a thin panel, with collision added either in Strpix or meta2tr, which you can originaly rotate inside the editor but only in 45 degree steps.
I thought that, maybe, when rotating them in v.8 I would be able to get the (let's say) 30 degree collision compared to the grid.
But, never mind, it is not of crucial importance.
The highlight of version 8 so far (from my point of view) is the possibility to rotate and move moveables and statics at all.
Anyway, I will send more feedback as soon as I discover (or mess up) something new.

meta2tr 23-07-14 10:54

I've tried with a static in the ROCK7 slot and the collision did accept rotations other than 45 and 90, so I don't yet understand this.

HeinzFritz 23-07-14 12:04

Then I have been (as suspected) doing something wrong. I will try it again with fresh objects as soon as possible and give you feedback.
Thanks!

Titak 23-07-14 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by meta2tr (Post 7122468)
Now available: meta2tr_v8.zip and floor2prj_v3.zip.

Oh, an update! :jmp:
Don't have the time to test now (on vacation) but the changes sure look great!

I tend to use the MapMergeList to merge many of the objects with the roomgeometry.
Is the new moving feature working with this? :ponder:

HeinzFritz 23-07-14 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titak (Post 7125094)
I tend to use the MapMergeList to merge many of the objects with the roomgeometry.
Is the new moving feature working with this? :ponder:

Looks like it is not. It is meant to move or rotate (or scale? - have not tried this so far) objects around the room, but only those that are not merged into the geometry.
So the starting position of e.g. Lara can be on other places and angles than middle of the square and 45 / 90 degrees to the walls.

Have a nice vacation!

meta2tr 23-07-14 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeinzFritz (Post 7125064)
Then I have been (as suspected) doing something wrong. I will try it again with fresh objects as soon as possible and give you feedback.
Thanks!

Remember you can only rotate around the vertical axis. You cannot scale objects.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titak (Post 7125094)
Oh, an update! :jmp:
Don't have the time to test now (on vacation) but the changes sure look great!

I tend to use the MapMergeList to merge many of the objects with the roomgeometry.
Is the new moving feature working with this? :ponder:

MapMerge still works as it always did.

In v8, if you MapMerge an item, it will appear in the RoomNNN mesh as before. What's new is that v8 produces position objects. The position object for a merged item will have no mesh. You can still see its location on the map by clicking on Local though, and it will be under the merged mesh. While in Local, if you move this position object, then you will move the item's collision, but the visual mesh won't move since it is already merged to the room mesh. So for merged items, the new position objects probably aren't of much use.

Titak 30-08-14 09:38

^
It sounds like it is still possible though.
I just have to move the merged mesh also. :D


Another question...
I forgot how to expand the texturing zone so I can UV-map objects with transparant and shiny textures... :o
I foudn this https://sites.google.com/site/meta2t...tics/texturing, showing which zones represent which effect (amount of shiny and transparancy) but it does not tell me how to expand the texture tile to those positions.

sapper 30-08-14 13:19

I think you need to click the "Repeat" box above "Grid".

Titak 30-08-14 14:05

Ah, got it! Thanks! :D

HeinzFritz 30-08-14 15:08

Titak, if you plan to add total visual confusion and chaos to your room geometry by also applying the newly discovered TREP / FLEP transparencies, you will need to change the settings in Metaseq to Repeat=4 to be able to move the texture to one of the new transparencies' place.

Titak 31-08-14 10:52

^
Ah, thanks HeinzFritz. :tmb:
I was thinking about that as well the other day but did not realise that by just using repeat once I would not be able to see those sectors.


Some questions:
1.
I've started working with Meta2TR on one of my levels, just to get back into the habit.
It is nice to see the differences in lighting now that objects have been merged with the roomgeometry.
The odd thing though is that the lighting on the roomgeometry is different from the non-Meta2TR version... I already noticed this in MoA-part1 and my Canyon levels for CC2. In some cases I don't mind but in one case, the yellowish fog object now has a pinkish tint to it... even if the object is not merged with the roomgeometry. :confused:

2.
And, there's a way to colour-pick light values, right?
But how? :o

3.
Btw, I'm using Meta version 3.1.1.
Would it be better to update to a more recent version or is all that is possible with Meta2TR version 8 possible with this Meta version?



Btw, I really like how Meta2TR8 cleans the level of unused textures.
Quite usefull because when you edit something which changes the textures the old textures will be deleted instead of staying put, adding to the total amount of used textures.
So, good job on that one! :tmb:

I also like the grouping of the textures for objects.
Makes things easier as well.

4.
Another thing I would like to see, if it is possible, is that the order of the roomgeometry texturetiles will stay the same as in the TGA.
I often use blocks of 256x256 for rocks, walls and such (I do apply them as 128x128 textures), and when UV-mapping new geometry, it is easier to have those tiles stay the way they are so I don't have to open new tiles all the time to texture a mesh which needs the four tiles of the 256x256 tga tile.
If that makes sense... :ponder:

HeinzFritz 31-08-14 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titak (Post 7165175)
^
Ah, thanks HeinzFritz. :tmb:
I was thinkign about that as well the other day but did not realise that by just using repeat once I would not be able to see those sectors.
Some questions:
1. If that makes sense... :ponder:

I must confess that only parts of your problem make sense, so I'll guess that you want to know:

1. Why, when you add objects by merging into the roomgeometry, the lightening is different then when you don't merge objects into it.

Increasing the polygon and vertex numbers by merging an object (that allone, may have more vertices than the whole room, the lightening is distributed in a different way.
As your yellowish fog object, I guess that you have messed up the sprites (happens often). Check the sprites.mqo.

2. There is a way to do it, but as far as I remember when I tried it for the first (and last) time, the result was disappointing. At the moment I can't remember how it was done, but there is a tutorial about it, probably in the Titak created & organized tutorial section of this forum.

3. The newest 3 Metaseq version is the 3.16, so you might want to upgrade. The 4.xx versions in the unregistered version don't have major differences to 3.xx except for the possibility to set the grid to values below 1.

4. There is a feature in meta2tr 8 which allows just that by dropping the original tga upon the meta2tr.exe.
Haven't tried it yet, as there was no need for me to use this feature so far.
Try to read the instructions accompanying the release or visit the author's site.

meta2tr 31-08-14 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titak (Post 7165175)
Some questions:
1.
I've started working with Meta2TR on one of my levels, just to get back into the habit.
It is nice to see the differences in lighting now that objects have been merged with the roomgeometry.

Just to be clear, the objects under "STATIC_POSITIONS" and "MOVEABLE_POSITIONS", like the shatter below,
https://sites.google.com/site/meta2t...nsShatter0.jpg
are only meant to show the position of the object in the map. Notice that they have black lines and vertices. The advantage of these position objects is that you can change the moveable or static's position and RGB directly in Metasequoia.

To change the position, click on the object in the list, click on "Local", and move the object by dragging the XYZ cursor. To change the RGB values, change the values in the object's name (only applies to objects with internal lighting, typically statics).

Although the shatter's mesh is shown here, it is just to help the builder in case he or she wants to adjust its position in the room. This mesh data is not imported into the level when you drag RoomAll onto meta2tr.exe, only the position XYZ and RGB values are imported.

In the example above, the shatter isn't merged into the room using mapmerge. If it had been, then we would still see it as above, except it would now be part of the Room002 object's mesh, and would therefore have pink lines and vertices instead of black ones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titak (Post 7165175)
The odd thing though is that the lighting on the roomgeometry is different from the non-Meta2TR version... I already noticed this in MoA-part1 and my Canyon levels for CC2. In some cases I don't mind but in one case, the yellowish fog object now has a pinkish tint to it... even if the object is not merged with the roomgeometry. :confused:

Don't worry, if you don't use MapMerge on the fog object, even if the fog position object is shown in RoomAll with a pinkish tint, it will still have the original yellow tint when in game. The reason for the difference in tint in RoomAll is that I calculate lighting on objects differently to how tomb4 does. But since these position object meshes are not imported, you will not change the original yellow tint that the fog has.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titak (Post 7165175)
2.
And, there's a way to colour-pick light values, right?
But how? :o

Shift-click.
Edit: remember, position objects (black lines and vertices) are not imported, so if you are changing vertex lighting on a position object, it won't have any effect in game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titak (Post 7165175)
3.
Btw, I'm using Meta version 3.1.1.
Would it be better to update to a more recent version or is all that is possible with Meta2TR version 8 possible with this Meta version?

You can stay with version 3.1.1, everything works fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titak (Post 7165175)
Btw, I really like how Meta2TR8 cleans the level of unused textures.
Quite usefull because when you edit something which changes the textures the old textures will be deleted instead of staying put, adding to the total amount of used textures.
So, good job on that one! :tmb:

I also like the grouping of the textures for objects.
Makes things easier as well.

Thanks :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titak (Post 7165175)
4.
Another thing I would like to see, if it is possible, is that the order of the roomgeometry texturetiles will stay the same as in the TGA.
I often use blocks of 256x256 for rocks, walls and such (I do apply them as 128x128 textures), and when UV-mapping new geometry, it is easier to have those tiles stay the way they are so I don't have to open new tiles all the time to texture a mesh which needs the four tiles of the 256x256 tga tile.
If that makes sense... :ponder:

That is now possible, you drag the project's TGA file and the un-meta2tr'd level onto meta2tr.exe when you first convert to Metasequoia files. This causes the TileNNN.bmp files to have the same layout as the TGA, for example tut1's tiles would be as shown below
https://sites.google.com/site/meta2t...TheTGAFile.jpg

If you have scrolling textures, the process will also create a new TGA file with a repeated scrolling texture at the bottom of the image, this is necessary because scrolling textures have to be repeated in the Tile files, with one placed above the other. I'll explain this in more detail if you need me to.

Happy editing :)

raiderromero 31-08-14 15:46

hi meta2tr, can you help me in the other thread, ive been stucked with an animating range issue for weeks :(

Titak 01-09-14 18:08

Thanks for all the answers, meta2tr! :tmb:

Btw, the pinkish tint is ingame...
I'll use vertex colouring if all else fails. :D


@ HeinzFritz:
I don't see how the sprites would have anything to do with it because my fog object is simply a static object textured with textures from the wad. :ponder:
Simple greyish textures and I lit the object in the editor to make it look more yellowish.
So, as far as I know, it should stay yellowish as long as the object isn't merged with the roomgeometry.

The lighting being redistributed makes perfect sense, although it does nto really explain the sudden presence of purplish hues... :ponder:
Well, the purplish hues are very subtle and I'm already getting used to the slightly changed lighting of things. I could always use vertex lighting if the lighting is not to my liking. :D

HeinzFritz 01-09-14 18:37

Sorry, seems I did not understand correctly what a fog object might be (and I'm still in the fog about it).

Titak 01-09-14 19:49

It's a static object made of flat faces that are either all horizontal for a layered looking fog or sort of randomly placed (horizontal, vertical, diagonally) to form a more cloudy sort of fog.
The flat faces are textured with some faint cloudy looking texture, kinda like the fog layer textures used in City of the Dead.

I think some of these objects can be downloaded from TR Search Engine.

The nice thing about these fog objects is that they give a more irregular looking fog-effect than the fog bulb. And you don't have to worry about distant fog/volumetricfx either. You can use distant fog and then use these types of objects for a local fog. :D

HeinzFritz 01-09-14 20:00

That explanation clears the fog about these objects! I have made similar myself, but as at that time only the default transparency was available, got the light multiplication effect when making them layered.
Now, that you have reminded me of these objects, I'll try to make them again, but using the new transparencies to check how it all would look with layers.

meta2tr 01-09-14 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titak (Post 7166186)
Btw, the pinkish tint is ingame...

Even though you didn't use MapMerge?

Titak 02-09-14 09:46

Yes, odd isn't it. :ponder:
I changed it, having Meta2TR unpack the level again without those objects merged and used the edited RoomAll.mqo nd removed the already merged fog objects from it. Same result.

In another room with another type of fog object, the pinkish hue does not appear.

Well, I'll just merge the objects again and use vertex colouring on them if needed.
No big deal really. :D

meta2tr 02-09-14 11:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titak (Post 7166730)
Yes, odd isn't it. :ponder:
I changed it, having Meta2TR unpack the level again without those objects merged and used the edited RoomAll.mqo nd removed the already merged fog objects from it. Same result.

In another room with another type of fog object, the pinkish hue does not appear.

Well, I'll just merge the objects again and use vertex colouring on them if needed.
No big deal really. :D

OK, anyway if it does become a problem let me know.

HeinzFritz 02-09-14 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titak (Post 7166730)
In another room with another type of fog object, the pinkish hue does not appear.

Titak, have you tried to swap the fog objects from room A to room B and viceversa, to see what happens.
Maybe the fog object itself is the troublemaker...

Titak 02-09-14 12:27

^
Haven't tried that yet.
I'm suspexting it is a combo of that particular object and the lighting that occurs once the level has gone through Meta2TR.


Quote:

Originally Posted by meta2tr (Post 7166781)
OK, anyway if it does become a problem let me know.

Thanks. :D


Gosh... I can't believe I struggled with UV-mapping for so long.
Each time I tried I was completely lost somehow, even when following the tutorials. :facepalm:
I gave it another try a week ago or so and it was sooo easy to do!
No idea where my brain was the previous times I tried it. It must have been on a holiday far away or something. :vlol:

meta2tr 21-09-14 20:00

Updates

meta2tr_v8a.zip

- Improved the way unlit room vertices are lit when importing a RoomNNN file with no lighting into the level.
- Improved tolerance to small uv errors when importing objects into the level.

floor2prj_v3a.zip

- Update so that floor2prj will import collision into V50 projects with 128x128 textures

Happy editing :)

raiderromero 21-09-14 23:12

you know i love meta2tr updates right?:jmp:

HeinzFritz 22-09-14 12:48

Thanks for the update!

-Roli- 29-09-14 15:00

Hey guys! The following question might sounds stupid, but I have to ask :vlol: :

We can't use bigger tiles than 256x256? I'm asking it because of 1 tiles includes 4 128x128 textures. What if we could resize the tile to 512x512 and simply replace the 128x128 textures to 256x256 textures? Most likely it would be impossible, but oh well, I have to be sure. :vlol:

meta2tr 05-10-14 12:27

Hi Roli, the 256x256 size is a game engine limit. I don't know any way to get around this, sorry. I always base my NGLE texture set directly on 256256 textures, it seems to be the simplest way of managing them.

HeinzFritz 03-12-14 19:43

@meta2tr

Now another eccentricity...

I have been lately doing some additional experiments with the blend modes available with TREP and meta2tr combined:

An effect created when placing a transparent tile in front of a fixed camera makes the complete screen get an overlay which is either plain colored or textured. It all depends of the blend modes used and the textures themselves. Nothing new so far as this has been done by builders before (at least I suppose so). But it is still not possible to use this effect throughout the game when lara cam is active.

So I thought that the way the attribute of the transparency works (second from top on the grid in Meta) with texts jumping in front of lara, which you kindly implemented in your limits breaking tool, could be added to the four lowest transparencies in the Meta grid.

If I remember right the trick is that the in front jumping transparency has one coordinate missing.

If this coordinate could be removed from the other four mentioned transparencies, (by putting the tile on the left or right side (after the shine) then all the time a round wall around the scene could jump forward and give the screen a colored tint, which, by the way reacts to all lightening in the room, the effect would be similar to fog, but much more interesting.

I hope that this text is not too confusing, and that you get the idea about what could be created this way.

Shauni 03-12-14 22:25

If it's possible to do that over a fixed camera, can we also have something like that over the screen as we play as Lara?


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