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-   -   Tomb Raider Underworld UNappreciation thread (https://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=223284)

LuckyEdge10 15-08-19 10:28

Tomb Raider Underworld UNappreciation thread
 
Horrible and ridicolous plot, clunky controls, Lara moves like a YouTube video set in 2x speed, tons of bugs and glitches, horrible PS2 and Wii versions based on earlier builds of the game, main menu copied straight from AoD, short, exclusive Xbox 360 content, deleted leves, when you die it's ALWAYS the game's fault because of its horrible and clunky controls.

If you have anything more to add, feel free to do it.

Underworld is just the worst TR ever. It sucks in almost EVERY point (except for the graphics, which was gorgeus for its time).

And do we wanna talk about when one of Crystal Dynamics' developers said "Angel of Darkness was a study in what no to do"? Well, I wouod like to say to this deveoper that their Underworld game sucked. It sucks way more than AoD.

This is the Underworld HATE thread.

ESCachuli 15-08-19 16:34

lol I agree with every point you made and I would like to add how this game made any possible Core Design idea comeback impossible, since they think this is the most "classic one", but everything is done so poorly that it is almost a parody. Not to mention how cringy everything is plot-wise.

OrangeJuice 15-08-19 16:44

yeah underworld only really has its graphics, art style and soundtrack/ambient sound design going for it. other than that it's stupid as hell and boring.

oh natla is a bad bitch tho.

LuckyEdge10 15-08-19 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by ESCachuli (Post 8121178)
lol I agree with every point you made and I would like to add how this game made any possible Core Design idea comeback impossible, since they think this is the most "classic one", but everything is done so poorly that it is almost a parody. Not to mention how cringy everything is plot-wise.

"That it is almost a parody" LMFAO sad truth.

Do we want to talk about the scene where Lara meets her zombie mother? That scene is so cringe, and it doesn't make any sense. How did Amelia arrive there? That scene is 100% forced just because they had to make a depressing scene, like in all their games lmfao

VictorXD 15-08-19 18:08

Is this really at all necessary? :o The game is already bashed in every other sub forum and thread whenever it comes up, and goodness knows we have had thousands of threads on the TRU section about how much it is disliked/did something wrong.

Patrick star 15-08-19 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by VictorXD (Post 8121218)
Is this really at all necessary? :o The game is already bashed in every other sub forum and thread whenever it comes up, and goodness knows we have had thousands of threads on the TRU section about how much it is disliked/did something wrong.

Agreed . Sounds to me like the OP was so bored he couldn't think of any original idea for a thread , lol .

And I do NOT like Underworld as a whole , it's my least favorite Crystal game , but nope it's not worse than AOD . I also can't fault that CD employee (was it Eric ?) who said that AOD is a study in what not to do . ****ty management , inexperience in next-gen tech , ridiculous over-ambitiousness etc ? This is indeed how not to develop a video game . I can tolerate playing Underworld , but AOD is just downright insufferable to play .

However , my opinion on the game is as follows : Thailand and Mexico are amazing levels , the puzzles and atmosphere/ambient effects in the game are great , graphics are good , and I like Underworld Lara . Other than that the rest is mediocre at best and super bad/boring at worst .

CroftManiac05 16-08-19 08:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick star (Post 8121236)
I also can't fault that CD employee (was it Eric ?) who said that AOD is a study in what not to do . ****ty management , inexperience in next-gen tech , ridiculous over-ambitiousness etc ? This is indeed how not to develop a video game

I agree with all this, but it seems that Eric fell into the over-ambitiousness trap himself. Remember how he used to say how epic the game would be or that they would implement night/day cycles etc. The developers were excited about their projects, but they shouldn't have given false promises (that goes for both AOD and Underworld).

Quote:

However , my opinion on the game is as follows : Thailand and Mexico are amazing levels , the puzzles and atmosphere/ambient effects in the game are great , graphics are good , and I like Underworld Lara . Other than that the rest is mediocre at best and super bad/boring at worst .
Yep that's how I feel as well, except that I'm not really fond of Underworld Lara.
I could forgive the clunky controls and the mediocre animations if it weren't for the abysmal storyline and characterization that took a giant dump on what Legend had built.

JsotoTRSaga 16-08-19 13:23

Underworld is my favorite game from the LAU Trilogy, how dare you! I guess I hate the unfinished nature of the animations and lack of color palette from Mexico onwards. Those are my only complaints from Underworld, I loved it and I miss it.

It was also too short but all of LAU even GOL was short.

HarleyCroft 17-08-19 06:46

Hate threads are in really poor taste.. but holy FUDGE is this game terrible and deserving of one!!

My brokeness couldn't afford a PS3 at the time so the PS2 version was my first. Graphics aside, as soon as Lara's flat chimney-jumping ass decided the only way to get by the innocent Kraken was to kill it I hated that game. Still do for other sour reasons. I'll make a list :mis:

NoahCrofRaider 17-08-19 14:49

This thread is very extra, but while we’re on the topic, here’s my do’s and don’t-‘s about it.

Do’s:
-Beautiful graphics and, though not perfect, a very pretty Lara
-Fantastic variety of locations
-A few nice songs
-A lovely story, as long as you don’t consider it as a sequel to Legend
-Wonderful classic atmosphere and feeling across most of its levels
-Fabulous motion capture for the cutscenes
-A great moveset, probably the best we’ve had in the history of TR

Don’t-‘s:
-Terrible usage of colors, like my goodness
-Amanda being shoehorned in with little reason to why she’s there
-Clunky, downright awful controls paired with disgusting in-game animations

There aren’t a ton of issues with the game, but there are still a few and big, important ones at that. I like the game, but it is probably the one I least enjoy playing. :o

Samz 17-08-19 21:15

Had no weapon or ammo pick-ups at all.

Falling damage being an inconsistent mess.

UroshUchiha 17-08-19 22:12

No Croft Manor to explore and have fun in like in TRL and TRA.

Evil Doggos 19-08-19 05:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuckyEdge10 (Post 8121076)
Horrible and ridicolous plot, clunky controls, Lara moves like a YouTube video set in 2x speed, tons of bugs and glitches, horrible PS2 and Wii versions based on earlier builds of the game, main menu copied straight from AoD, short, exclusive Xbox 360 content, deleted leves, when you die it's ALWAYS the game's fault because of its horrible and clunky controls.

If you have anything more to add, feel free to do it.

Underworld is just the worst TR ever. It sucks in almost EVERY point (except for the graphics, which was gorgeus for its time).

And do we wanna talk about when one of Crystal Dynamics' developers said "Angel of Darkness was a study in what no to do"? Well, I wouod like to say to this deveoper that their Underworld game sucked. It sucks way more than AoD.

This is the Underworld HATE thread.

Damn. I cannot refute this. Underworld is just brutal to play through and honestly I may skip Legends and Anniversary. Completed reboot trilogy and playing all the classics.

Maverin 21-08-19 14:42

I have a love/hate relationship with it.

Thailand is one of my favorite Tomb Raider levels and the soundtrack is beautiful at times. But the story is weak and kinda wrecked what Legend started. I won't even mention the animations.
I also hated that we got every weapon at the start of the game and never got to collect anything aside from the many many secrets and a few health pickups.

Jamise_Croft 21-08-19 16:57

Why Lara has those big hands and long leggs?? lmao

Raider8 21-08-19 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by UroshUchiha (Post 8121920)
No Croft Manor to explore and have fun in like in TRL and TRA.

Just this. I won't say anything else.

Nigel Cassidy 24-08-19 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuckyEdge10 (Post 8121076)
Underworld is just the worst TR ever. It sucks in almost EVERY point (except for the graphics, which was gorgeus for its time).

Not just that in my opinion: it also has good music, a good motorcycle, and Keeley Hawes.

But out of all it's flaws the only one that really bothers me is the lackluster story and all the retconning it does from Legend. Because in that way it damages Legend as well.

Blackmoor 24-08-19 22:47

I loved the Mexican bits because they were beautiful and atmospheric.

Thailand was pretty too. The lizards in this bit were quite scary first time through too.

However a lot of the gameplay was souless. It felt empty and disappointing running into all those grey corridors and I couldn't take the eitr beings seriously. The viking hats ones looked silly to me, and the concept of blue glowy liquid doing all this "magic" didn't work for me.

Kapu 25-08-19 02:22

The very premise of this thread is killin me but the posts are even better :vlol:

"Disgusting in-game animations" and "Why Lara has those big hands and long leggs??" are the best things I've read all week bahahahah

How about the long ass hallways with zero gameplay comprising 75% of the last level. Or the fact that the only difficulty comes from fighting with a camera that is janky as hell.

AimlessThunder 25-08-19 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamise_Croft (Post 8123690)
Why Lara has those big hands and long leggs?? lmao

Ikr? Ew.. Maybe they wanted her to have more realistic proportions, but since her head is so big.. they had to increase the size of her hands.

The graphics still look gorgeous though..
I feel like CD just did not care that much about the game. My guess is that they had some internal issues, because they certainly have the talent *cough* Eric Lindstrom *cough*.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kapu (Post 8124829)
How about the long ass hallways with zero gameplay comprising 75% of the last level. Or the fact that the only difficulty comes from fighting with a camera that is janky as hell.

Yeah, despite the beautiful graphics, larger spaces and some of the interactive folliage, the game felt.. Empty..

aquaflute 26-08-19 02:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Cassidy (Post 8124713)
But out of all it's flaws the only one that really bothers me is the lackluster story and all the retconning it does from Legend. Because in that way it damages Legend as well.

I recently finished TRU again and I agree with this very much. The way this game ends just feel depressing and boring. It's so bad you want to actively avoid it and not reach it. I need to take a very long break after Mexico level to finish the rest of the game.

I realize that this is similarly the reason I had trouble with TR4 these days. Playing through everything just to have Lara entombed is very depressing and unfulfilling. In this case, the writing is not bad, but the ending really does not encourage you to finish the game.

Tomb Raidering 26-08-19 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by UroshUchiha (Post 8121920)
No Croft Manor to explore and have fun in like in TRL and TRA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamise_Croft (Post 8123690)
Why Lara has those big hands and long leggs?? lmao

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samz (Post 8121906)
Had no weapon or ammo pick-ups at all.

Falling damage being an inconsistent mess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverin (Post 8123656)
I extremely hate it.

Thailand is one of my most hated Tomb Raider levels and the soundtrack is boring at times. The story is weak and kinda wrecked what Legend started. I won't even mention the animations.
I also hated that we got every weapon at the start of the game and never got to collect anything aside from the many many secrets and a few health pickups.

This just sums everything. :p
  1. Lame story
  2. Boring Lara
  3. Ugly animations
  4. Retcons
  5. Fanservice

DJ Tomoe 27-08-19 09:54

I really think this was Crystal's AOD. The reasons why AOD failed (issues developing on next gen, short development time, ambitious ideas) are sadly replicated here.
I blame Eidos. I assume they learnt nothing and really wanted to retake the yearly release schedule as the classic era.

LateRaider 27-08-19 13:33

i screamed when i saw this thread. y'all are something else

anyway my issues with TR:U are this:

- animations (i think they had the mocap actress move at half speed then sped the mocap footage up. if you slow lara's animations down it looks great)

- the transition from arthurian myth to norse myth is breakneck speed and comes out of nowhere (lara: what the hell is avalon? natla: it's helheim from norse mythology lol)

- unlockables are a joke. (really stinging from this one b/c i just had to do a hundo run for my "100% tomb raider save files collection.") it'd be better if they gave you the golden shotgun and silver uzis like TR:A did, plus a couple extra costumes

- xbox exclusive DLC (11 friggin years later)

Tomb Raidering 27-08-19 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by LateRaider (Post 8125570)
i screamed when i saw this thread. y'all are something else

anyway my issues with TR:U are this:

- animations (i think they had the mocap actress move at half speed then sped the mocap footage up. if you slow lara's animations down it looks great)

- the transition from arthurian myth to norse myth is breakneck speed and comes out of nowhere (lara: what the hell is avalon? natla: it's helheim from norse mythology lol)

- unlockables are a joke. (really stinging from this one b/c i just had to do a hundo run for my "100% tomb raider save files collection.") it'd be better if they gave you the golden shotgun and silver uzis like TR:A did, plus a couple extra costumes

- xbox exclusive DLC (11 friggin years later)

Most of these are the result of fanservice:
Shoehorning Natla to their third game to please Classic fans,
People wanting Lara to go to ‘tombs’, which is just remote locations on the earth.
The ‘we don’t want outfits, ‘cause Classic games didn’t have it’ attitude.
We want pRoPeRr secrets, ala the Classics, which are ancient cups, or golden skulls, or golden roses.
‘We want an TR game urgently’

dg1995 27-08-19 18:50

Underworld is at least miles better than Legend and Anniversary:

1.Sprint
2.Far better swimming than those games(Where swimming in Legend and Anniversary was worse than PS1 TR games)
3.Far better level design(Since it's not small rooms being connected by long and empty corridors)
4.Far less QTEs.
5.Much better puzzles.
6.Motorcycle(Which in Legend was so limited and boring and Anniversary didn't have that)

I personally had no problems with controls and camera and don't know why you people had problems with that.
Also story was never that important in first TR games so I had no problem with that.

The worst Crystal Dynamic TR game is the 2013 one.(The RE 6 of the TR franchise with this difference that media/reviewers loved it unlike RE 6)

Also Underworld is miles better than AOD.

Tomb Raidering 27-08-19 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by dg1995 (Post 8125669)
Underworld is at least miles better than Legend and Anniversary:

1.Sprint
2.Far better swimming than those games(Where swimming in Legend and Anniversary was worse than PS1 TR games)
3.Far better level design(Since it's not small rooms being connected by long and empty corridors)
4.Far less QTEs.
5.Much better puzzles.
6.Motorcycle(Which in Legend was so limited and boring and Anniversary didn't have that)

I personally had no problems with controls and camera and don't know why you people had problems with that.
Also story was never that important in first TR games so I had no problem with that.

The worst Crystal Dynamic TR game is the 2013 one.(The RE 6 of the TR franchise with this difference that media/reviewers loved it unlike RE 6)

Also Underworld is miles better than AOD.

I respect your opinions but, no corridors? The game basically starting from Mexico was all about long, dark, cave-like corridors...

LateRaider 27-08-19 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomb Raidering (Post 8125666)
Most of these are the result of fanservice:
Shoehorning Natla to their third game to please Classic fans,
People wanting Lara to go to ‘tombs’, which is just remote locations on the earth.
The ‘we don’t want outfits, ‘cause Classic games didn’t have it’ attitude.
We want pRoPeRr secrets, ala the Classics, which are ancient cups, or golden skulls, or golden roses.
‘We want an TR game urgently’

before i get into this i want to say that i got into the series in 2014 w/ tr2013, so i don't have the perspective of having been in the fandom in 2008. that aside, here are my thoughts.

i think adding natla and amanda both wasn't the issue, it was more the problem of "ok we're going from arthurian myth to norse very quickly" and it should've been built up more and slowly revealed. uncovering that the monomyth presented in TR:L actually stems from norse mythology, and that it turns out excalibur is like... actually some norse sword that arthur found, would be a lot more gratifying than natla going "oh btw we're doing norse **** now :D "

to counter your third point, we did get changeable outfits, even if it's just "choose what to wear out of this predetermined set per level". tbh i personally have no problem with how you find treasures/relics as it is now. breaking open pots to find silver octagons was weird and different but not awful. my issue was the lack of beneficial rewards

the core design games (well, the ones that actually have secrets) all reward you with ammo or health when you find a secret. since TR:L decided to just let you trade out bigger guns as you find them for a hint of realism, (doesn't make sense for lara to be carting around 5+ guns, after all) it obviously wouldn't make any sense to add weapons and ammo to secrets. hence the reward system, seemingly borrowed from TRII. and of course in TR:L, you're given costumes, cheat codes, pistol power ups, concept art, etc.

TR:U fails here with its attempt to streamline the reward-giving process. it reduced the number of cheats to 3 and you can enable them at any time; you can select your outfit before beginning a level; and you start off with all weapons. so what else is there to add? relics give an HP boost but that's the only substantial gameplay benefit.

actual unlockables would've been sweet. here are some ideas off the top of my head...

90 treasures - silver mini-SMGs (2x strength compared to normal SMGs, with high-capacity magazines)
179 treasures - golden rifle (ultra long-distance and high firepower, with high-capacity magazine)
all mediterranean sea treasures - (tbh nothing is needed here, you're given the swimsuit for treasure hunt)
all coastal thailand treasures - TR:L Biker added to this area's outfit select
all croft manor treasures - TR:L Sport added to this area's outfit select
all southern mexico treasures - TRIII Nevada recolor of Jungle Pants added to this area's outfit select
all jan mayen treasures - TR:L Winter added to this area's outfit select
all arctic sea treasures - Classic Outfit recolor of Jungle Shorts added to this area's outfit select (just a recolor so as not to negate the actual classic-inspired outfit in the DLC; tbh it'd probably look just like Guardian of Light's main outfit)
all relics - (as well as the HP boosts) choose any outfit in any locale
beat on master survivalist difficulty - infinite ammo option added to each area's weapon select (press the Interact Button to toggle on/off)

but instead, we get... concept art... and storyboards... joy.

Tomb Raidering 27-08-19 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by LateRaider (Post 8125695)
A very detailed post... plz read it.

Most of the things regarding the reward system is because of the fans themselves. During Anniversary’s release time, everyone was like “we don’t need a remake, we want Legend II NOW!!!” And they rushed everything about it. There was going to be a replayable cutscene option and replay any level with any outfit just like in Leg. and Anni. There was also going to be a photo mode which was already there during E3 in the PDA menu. It just got released abruptly. Eidos, Eidos, Eidos, Eidos!?! Hmmm, I think no one learned from AOD...

LateRaider 27-08-19 20:50

wow thats horrible. thanks for the info. so it seems eidos screwed up yet another amazing TR concept... ugh. no wonder Square Enix acquired them

Tomb Raidering 27-08-19 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by LateRaider (Post 8125707)
wow thats horrible. thanks for the info. so it seems eidos screwed up yet another amazing TR concept... ugh. no wonder Square Enix acquired them

And Square Enix bought that old British company for more than its worth, about millions. Logically speaking, they did a great job with 2013 (15 million copies sold!!!) They brought back attention to TR. But the franchise got stale again, tHe TrIlOgY uNlUcKinNesS...

LateRaider 27-08-19 21:00

even tho the series got stale i feel like sottr has fared a lot better so far than compared to TR:AoD or TR:U, at least. which is something positive. "baby steps, we're getting there"

Tomb Raidering 27-08-19 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by LateRaider (Post 8125714)
even tho the series got stale i feel like sottr has fared a lot better so far than compared to TR:AoD or TR:U, at least. which is something positive. "baby steps, we're getting there"

We just need ‘reboot treated’ Amanda, Anaya, Larson, Zip, Pierre and Natla. That’s all. AOD Lara voice* “Now we’re getting somewhere.” :p

LateRaider 27-08-19 21:12

i could actually see a use for all of them but tbh i dont think i wanna see natla again. bitch had 2 dlcs and 3 games, we've had enough lmao

Tomb Raidering 27-08-19 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by LateRaider (Post 8125721)
i could actually see a use for all of them but tbh i dont think i wanna see natla again. bitch had 2 dlcs and 3 games, we've had enough lmao

Janice * “That poor woman.”
AOD Lara * “What woman?”


Chamayoo 27-08-19 23:15

One thing I could really HATE, it's to not release the game at least one year later.
I'm convinced they decided to not reproduce the same secret system and rewards as TRL/A because they simply have no time, it feels indeed so rushed... Like a developer at the last minute copy past the artifact model as well of the jars, "here there, there, there and there. 100 of them. Done. Now we can pressed the game !"

Tomb Raidering 28-08-19 05:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chamayoo (Post 8125761)
One thing I could really HATE, it's to not release the game at least one year later.
I'm convinced they decided to not reproduce the same secret system and rewards as TRL/A because they simply have no time, it feels indeed so rushed... Like a developer at the last minute copy past the artifact model as well of the jars, "here there, there, there and there. 100 of them. Done. Now we can pressed the game !"

Like it could have had varied secrets that is special to its own location, somewhat like what Legend did. Cross for Croft Manor, Ayurvedic Chalice for Thailand, Mayan masks for Mexico? But we just got ancient cups. And the ‘things’ for healing? Soup? Tomato sauce? Ayurvedic recipe, which still works wonders after being in the open for a loonng time? If she can bring her own weapons (which I hate very much) then she can bring her own medipacks realistically speaking.

Chamayoo 28-08-19 06:22

Rotten ancient soup and dirty chocolate bars for a really good diet. :tmb:

I also didn't like the fact we have access to all weapons in game. A nice thing in the paper but only on new game +, not in your very first play. Like Samz I like the tradition to collect ammos and weapons in the wild and weird decision because it defeat the purpose to chose your weapon in the start of the level, an idea that is initially cool.

Another thing to add to the good suggestions on secret secret system, it could be neat to collect some money or virtual points during the level and at the start of the next level you could unlock more powerful and unique weapons to start with if you have collected enough.

Tomb Raidering 28-08-19 06:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chamayoo (Post 8125828)
Rotten ancient soup and dirty chocolate bars for a really good diet. :tmb:

I also didn't like the fact we have access to all weapons in game. A nice thing in the paper but only on new game +, not in your very first play. Like Samz I like the tradition to collect ammos and weapons in the wild and weird decision because it defeat the purpose to chose your weapon in the start of the level, an idea that is initially cool.

Another thing to add to the good suggestions on secret secret system, it could be neat to collect some money or virtual points during the level and at the start of the next level you could unlock more powerful and unique weapons to start with if you have collected enough.

I think for the next reboot game, if there will be any, it should have varied secrets, the focus shouldn’t be on documents. They should stay relevant to the plot, but not give you XP or anything, and be only like 10 the entire game. Collecting them may reward us with a final cutscene ala KH. We could go out of our way (TRIII-IV comes to mind) and find secret routes which has some kind of mural that Lara learns skills from them, max 5 skill entire game. AND we could find gold if in a remote place or cash in urban areas, together working as currency, in really secret places, they should be scarce, like who just leaves gold and money around (looking at you AOD, Rise, and Shadow). The currency can allow us to buy the most powerful weapon in the game along with 2 or 3 non-mandatory gears. AOD Lara voice * “That’s it!”

Chamayoo 28-08-19 10:40

^ I would like it a lot. :tmb:


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