Yes, we should call it TR9.

TR'13 =/= TR13
:ohn:

...

...

...

I hope you have good insurance... Life insurance.

:pi:

Oooooh, some very good, decent answers in there. That last one about Lara's look, though, it could mean anything. It would just be nice if Lara looked like the Turning Point Lara. That would be amarzing.

Hopefully by ps4 standards the tressFX hair is the standard

I use '13 as it is short for 2013, so it's TR [of] 2013. I prefer that over TR9/10.

^ So do I, TR'13 is much better! (or TR2013)

Am I wrong or did the fire ritual not make any sense? I mean, the way it worked in the game was that Himiko controlled the island's weather. So when the Solarii burned someone who Himiko felt was suitable, she would put out the fire. However, the fire ritual was already described in Himiko's tomb which was built way before everything went to hell because of Hoshi's suicide. So at the time the tomb was built Himiko still had a body and could still choose her next vessel by herself. There was no need for a fire ritual. That would've had to be sth the Solarii invented. So yeah, it doesn't make any sense.

So wait... The Solarii invented the fire ritual to find out which girl Himiko would save?

Makes enough sense to me, they're going out on a ridiculous, extremeist limb and killing tons of people in order to achieve something so incredibly unlikely, which is insane, which suites Mathias' character.

edit: Oh, but the fire ritual was already described in her tomb. Okay. Maybe it was a precaution? Or maybe it was put there after she died? Was it for sure the fire ritual?

A ritual doesn't have to make sense. On the contrary most rituals are irrational and impractical symbolic ceremonies.

It makes plenty of sense that Himiko would put on a spectacle to further impress on her subject how 'divine' she was.

They whole game doesn't make sense, in real life terms no such thing exists. But in a game world anything goes, it's just how believable they make it. Maybe they stole it from the Catholics. In mid evil days a cleansing fire prepped peoples souls for the afterlife.

On a side note, question, if I start a new game will it screw up my 100% complete game if I keep the new one on a separate save slot??? (had issues with that and lost 3 100% saves in GTA once)

It wont affect your 100% save. As long as you use a separate slot.

Well, the ritual in itself does make sense. The fact that it's mentioned in Himiko's tomb doesn't. And I think Hoshi would've mentioned it in one of her diaries if Himiko had indeed put on a show like that. But the way Hoshi described it just didn't make it seem like anything like that took place. I mean, when Hoshi is chosen to join the queen's court, Himiko still seems like a relatively nice/normal ruler and Hoshi only later grows wary of her. Surely, if she had publically burnt all but one of her priestesses on a regular basis, Hoshi would've been a little more panicked. So yeah, it's simply a mistake on CD's part.

Omg, where have you been?! It's been ages since you were here. Welcome back. :hug:

But was that the ritual they used before Himiko passed?

The way it is presented in the game at least makes it seem that way. It is, of course, possible that the Solarii's fire ritual and Himiko's fire ritual are two completely different ones. But that would be kinda weird and it's never hinted at in the game.

Then perhaps she whispered to someone else like she did to Mathias and they had the ritual that would bring her back depicted in her tomb. Or they already knew this is how she had to be buried because she had this planned in case her body did ever die. Not everything needs to be explained.

Not everything needs to be spelled out in the game, no. But the writer should always have an explanation for everything that happens in the story, even if that explanation is not actually shown/mentioned in the story. Otherwise it's bad writing. (I guess there are a few exceptions to that rule but this situation is certainly not one of them.)

No, I think it's fine.

Then you don't care about storytelling, I guess.

Or I think it works fine and you're presuming objective truth upon yourself.

When Himiko strikes down the airplane she even speaks, "No one leaves." Clearly she has been trapping people there for a very very long time. Keeping them there, whispering, like to Mathias. Demonstrating her power over the weather to get what she wants. There is a clear intent and goal there, and even a form of interaction directly with the islanders.

I don't know if CD ever had an explanation in mind. But it is not hard to imagine that the inhabitants would derive this ritual as the only logical way for Himiko to demonstrate her will in the one way quickly evident to anyone who's been trapped there with her. So, yeah, I think it works out just fine.

It was believed Himiko used witchcraft/sorcery, maybe that's where the fire ritual 'rumour' started. It's depicted in pictures in her tomb and in the chamber with her successors, but maybe the fire ritual was never actually used during Himiko's natural lifetime, but only ever after her body's death? After all, while alive Himiko wouldn't need a successor. This way, the fire ritual does make sense and the mention of it in her tomb makes sense as her bodily death was the start of it all. The paintings and carving could have been added later, perhaps years after the original death. Her people, the priestesses, their worship obviously continued after her 'death'. Perhaps she had outlined to an unknown priestess what was to be done to choose the successor the first time. Why did Hoshi not know about it? Maybe it was kept as a secret initiation, only found out until it was too late? Hoshi wasn't the first vessel, she was the last until the Solarii turned up. Wait, maybe the first vessel was chosen while Himiko was still alive, after all, Himiko's soul had to move on for the first time, captured before her original body died. Maybe the original ritual involved not burning alive, but withstanding heat from being forced to stand in the center of a fire circle and the bravest was chosen and the the transfer ritual began. << Major guess work btw :p. After that the ritual as we learn it to be takes place as Himiko can now use the wind power. I dunno, maybe she always had this power, but it went out of control when Hoshi sacrificed herself in an attempt to stop it happening again. Or maybe the fire ritual became exaggerated over time to become the ritual as we know it to be or maybe Himiko's fury at being trapped made her whisper her intentions (to an appointed priest of her choice, which Mathias fulfilled) as actual burnings. << more major guess work.

And what makes anyone believe the writers didn't already have this figured out, but felt it wasn't necessary to explain in the game? Maybe it's a question for the next Q&A over at Eidos forums?

I'm once again a bit late to the conversation :o.

Well, no. When I said that you needed to have an explanation for everything as a writer and that this situation is no exception you said that you disagreed, which means you said it didn't actually need an explanation. That's what my reply was directed at. However, it seems like that's not what you actually wanted to say. I guess what you wanted to say was that you think the writers did have an explanation.

Wow, okay seems like you didn't understand me, so I will say it again: It is NOT the ritual itself that I have a problem with. The ritual makes sense and I also think the Solarii would've been able to come up with that by themselves. The problem here is that it's depicted in Himiko's tomb even though everything we know suggests that such a ritual didn't actually exist/was completely unnecessary when the tomb was built. And if it had been done for show, like I've said, Hoshi would've likely been terrified when she was chosen as a high priestess (as that would mean everyone but Himiko's successor would burn to death).

But Rai's first suggestion might work - that the paintings in her tomb were a precaution in case the vessel transfer would ever go wrong. I'm not completely sure what Lara says in that scene...does she read something from the wall? Because that could tell us if that explanation works or not.

EDIT: "This looks like some kind of fire ritual... A sacrifical ritual... Horrible. But why were the women burnt like that?" And then later, once she's seen all the murals she comments on what they mean as a whole, "This is an ascencion ritual! It's how you chose your successor!"

So that means either Lara got it all wrong in the game, CD made a mistake OR this is a hint towards something else. Let's just assume what Lara says here is right. Himiko did choose her successors like this. That would mean that it is not Himiko who's controlling the storms and that it never was, but that there's something else. The Star Phenomenon? It sounds kinda far-fetched and I'd say it's more likely that CD simply made a mistake but I wouldn't rule out the possibility that this is a hidden reference towards something related to Trinity.

Why the hell there is no one in PC TR MP? :(

time zones.
people sleep.

Seeing no one for last 20 hours or so.

If you have any DLC maps, disable them in the Options - Matchmaking menu, then try again.
If you still can't find anything, add me, I'll be happy to help. :)

Did Himiko die immediately when Hoshi killed herself? I think she didn't, her previous body would still be alive for a time, right?

In which case there is the explanation. Himiko came up with the fire ritual because she knew she would die and had the drawings made in her tomb.

What I was saying is this aspect of the story doesn't require an explanation regardless of whether the authors did have one or not. If you think they didn't, call it luck then because the story still works.

Also, I think even the author doesn't need an explanation for everything. Some things can be left up to you to feel in the blanks. This may have been one, maybe because they didn't have space in the story to feel in all the small details.

I did not say the Solarii came up with the ritual. I actually meant people long before the Solarii when (or shortly after) they burried Himiko. She kept them there with her powers, possible communicated with them, they knew about the soul transfer process and that she keeps them from leaving because it wasn't complete. So they came up with the ritual and depicted it in Himiko's tomb.

Yes. I said the same thing in one of my previous posts. Possibly they were the instructions she was always supposed to be buried with had her current body died.

She actually did get it wrong the first time. Lara gave a logical interpretation which was a succession procedure. But that wasn't the real truth, as it involved soul transfer and was possibly designed for use after death specifically.

Thanks added. :hug:

If she'd had enough time left to do that, she would've also had enough time to find another vessel. So yeah, I think the only two possibilites are that Lara got it wrong and Himiko came up with the ritual as a precaution or that CD got it wrong. I still think the latter is more likely because the first one just really requires making too many excuses in order for things to make sense but it's a possibility.

No, that is bad writing. (Meaning it's a bad way to write a story. The actual writing product might still turn out to be good if you're lucky.) You certainly don't always have to settle on a single "official" explanation as a writer but you at least have to make sure your plot makes sense and that there are possible explanations for what you're writing, that you don't contradict yourself.

This is an assumption which does not have to be true at all. She might only have had enough time for her last dying will.

In fact I find it most probable that she didn't die at the same time as Hoshi. Doesn't seem to be any reason why she would. Just that she was old and it was time for her to find another vessel, which got screwed up.

I don't agree with that. Sci-Fi/Fantasy writers for example don't have explanations for why their crazy science or magic works. You just have to imagine that the warp drive or whatever does through some science not yet (or never will be) invented.

Possible explanations, sure. But like above, some times it's more on the impossible side.

That's something completely different, though, and its part of what I meant when I was talking about exceptions. Not to mention that a lot of good sci-fi writers do go to the lengths of at least coming up with some pseudo-scientifical explanations and rules for their technologies and even fantasy writers usually have certain rules for the magical/supernatural elements in their work which they don't contradict. And it's a part of the backstory - not the plot (The difference here is the backstory establishes a certain set of rules which the plot usually has to adhere to. If it doesn't you end up with logical mistakes in your plot). When you watch a sci-fi or fantasy movie you expect to see those kinds of things. Otherwise I would also be complaining about how unrealistic it is that the soul of a queen could be transported to another body or could control the weather. I don't because that's simply a part of the backstory. What we're talking about here, however, is a logical mistake. One part of the story is contradicting another part of the story and this certainly can't be explained away with the game's supernatural elements. In other words: bad writing.

While I see what you mean about Hoshi's journals and Himiko's tomb ritual. I'm not seeing a contradiction or a plot hole as plenty of explanations exist.

Lara did get her first explanation wrong because she wasn't coming from the assumption that a dead queen can still proceed with the ritual. So her natural interpretation was that it was to choose the next ruler. And it was, just in a very different sense.

I also would not be so quick to say CD missed it. Maybe they didn't bother to explain how exactly the ritual came into existence as/after Himiko died out of the general idea of long gone history being foggy on exact details. And to me they did not need to.

After Underworld's story disaster I just feel like it actually being a mistake is much more likely. And even with Rhianna on board, the reboot's story was pretty boring, too. It seems like CD had already decided on large parts of the plot before she joined the project (especially considering she only contributed one character to the whole story). Either that or she isn't as good of a writer as I always thought she was. Either way, I don't have a lot faith in whoever came up with the narrative framework so them making a mistake just doesn't seem too far-fetched to me.

How was the story boring? It was very interesting and intricate, in my opinion. Had very deep mystery to it, and a lot of hidden answers. Which most people didn't seem to get, clearly.

I liked the backstory with Hoshi and Himiko and the beginning up until the plane crash was great. After that it just became mediocre, though. Flat and cheesy characters (except for maybe Lara and Roth...though they still were a little cheesy sometimes. Just less cheesy than the other ones), predictable "twists" (actually there almost weren't any twists worthy of that name), pretty much no build-up or suspense whatsoever, way too much foreshadowing which ruined the few actual twists there were and terrible pacing during the later parts of the game.

Exactly! Up until the plane crash the game was great, afterwards it turned to cheap tricks and cliches.

I actually find the pacing perfect, especially in the latter part of the game.

Seeing Lara go full badass (corny as is), her darker characterization at the beach, returning to the Endurance, finding the General and learning about the Storm Guard. There are some neat pieces of ambiance based storytelling when you hear her full theme playing at key moments that I think makes you feel the whole journey.

Those are actually some of the best parts to me.

With many of the plot points, Lara just accidentally stumbles over them (like Himiko's tomb, the Oni, etc.) which means there's no build-up whatsoever, no suspense and most of these "revelations" have got no punch to them at all because they're just randomly thrown in there. The Oni, in particular, had so much potential which they ruined by outright revealing them almost at the beginning of the game (and also by making them pretty much regular humans who had simply managed to live for a very long time. Would've been so much better if they had been demons or ghosts or sth). And even the few pieces that had some sort of build-up, like the General's tomb, just felt unexciting when you actually got to it. Pretty much all of the twists and revelations seemed uninteresting. They wasted so much potential by putting all that background story into the journals instead of making it part of the plot. Especially the whole cannibalism stuff and the things revealed in Hoshi's journals. They should've had playable flashbacks where you play as Hoshi. THAT would've been interesting.

EDIT: They should've also made the island actually being Yamatai a bigger deal. Another example of a revelation which didn't get any proper build-up. And the way they just threw Mathias in there. Awful. They shouldn't have actually shown him until later on and should've just had the Solarii Lara encounters talk about him. You know, stuff like how ruthless and mysterious he is and how even they don't know what he's planning, stuff like that. Vlad's men could've taken Sam and brought her to Mathias and then Lara keeps hearing about Mathias and reading about him and when you finally encounter him for the first time it'd actually have some sort of impact. Well, I guess for that to work properly they would've also had to make Mathias less clichéd and more interesting but still.

They felt exciting and interesting to me and I thought teasing the oni from the beginning but not letting you engage them was pretty good, and I felt that created suspense until the end for me. Things fall into place as you discover the island, and the game had plenty of impact with it's wonderfully done atmosphere from moment to moment as you go through the plot.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. Also, now that you mention the atmosphere, I feel like they wasted a lot of potential with that, too. On the one hand because of all the shooting and action scenes they put in there (which was another suspense killer). There was barely any time to breathe and take in the environments (not in the indoor areas, anyway - in the TOMBS) and most of the really interesting locations were just way too short (Himiko's tomb, the Solarii fortress, the general's tomb, the Monastery...imagine having to stealthily explore that monastery (not just pre-defined, pre-scripted one-way paths but having to navigate multiple, maze-like ways while there could be Oni lurking around every corner and you're wading through all the blood and bodies on the floor, solving puzzles, searching for the ritual chamber, trying not to be detected)). I think the game's atmosphere was pretty good compared to Underworld and Anniversary. Great even, in some parts of the game. But it could've easily been so much more.