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Spong 26-02-12 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by larafan25 (Post 6001056)
We have information about the game, you just don't know it.

No one knows it, because there isn't any. Info about Lara though? We've got that coming out of our ears :rolleyes:

Tonyrobinson 26-02-12 15:52

I know I feel like I know everything to know about this new Lara. She's more vulnerable and will be tougher by the end of the game of what else is there to know about her. I wanna hear about some new characters and a bit more about the story line. :p

I'm glad the Lara is finally getting melee items though I've wanted it in the series for ages and Angel of Darkness was useless for melee combat. I hope they haven't ditched the Machete. :mis:

larafan25 26-02-12 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spong (Post 6001061)
No one knows it, because there isn't any. Info about Lara though? We've got that coming out of our ears :rolleyes:

I'd be interested in seeing a comparison between the amount of info about Lara and the amount of info about the game. :rolleyes:

As we have tons of info about the game that not only comes in the form of written information but videos and screenshots too. :rolleyes:

edit: And for good measure let's just add another one, :rolleyes:.

That smiley is so unnecessary all the time.

Spong 26-02-12 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by larafan25 (Post 6001075)
As we have tons of info about the game that not only comes in the form of written information but videos and screenshots too. :rolleyes:

I've yet to see anything resembling a showcase of the game without it being wrapped up in some Lara context. Lara will be able to do this, she can do that, character progression & development, equipment & gear-gating - it's all been about her so far.

Phlip 26-02-12 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spong (Post 6001086)
I've yet to see anything resembling a showcase of the game without it being wrapped up in some Lara context. Lara will be able to do this, she can do that, character progression & development, equipment & gear-gating - it's all been about her so far.

To be fair, I'm sure they have said levels will be non-linear.

Linoshi Croft 26-02-12 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phlip (Post 6001095)
To be fair, I'm sure they have said levels will be non-linear.

They said that in Underworld then admitted afterwards it was all just smoke and mirrors... So, my hopes aren't up on that one.

larafan25 26-02-12 16:11

^A level can be non-linear and still have smoke and mirrors, like some may have been in Underworld. Smoke and mirrors doesn't refer to a lying media campaign. But we do know now that there is an entire island, we may not be able to just crawl up cliffs and hop into other hub spaces, but the entire thing is apparently exploration at some point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spong (Post 6001086)
I've yet to see anything resembling a showcase of the game without it being wrapped up in some Lara context. Lara will be able to do this, she can do that, character progression & development, equipment & gear-gating - it's all been about her so far.

Yes, there are many reasons for this.

A. When talking about what Lara's abilities are going to be, you mention her. She's the main character whether anyone acknowledges it or not, she's the one with the moves, we're controlling her, she's going to be mentioned.

B. The story is clearly much more important this time round, CD are putting more focus on it and Lara's progression/ growth, it's going to affect gameplay.

We know Lara's general biography, we know other background info about her based on the script, we know her character is going to change, she's going to express emotions. We know she will react in game to events in the game world.

As for gameplay we know combat has switched to manual aim, we know we can steer Lara in mid air, there seems to be an evident lack of (there are none) tacked on ledges. We know of four main weapons so far, the bow, the pistol, the shotgun, and the axe. We know Lara will interact with specific rock walls to use the axe. We know that we can craft items, we know there is some sort of an upgrade system, we know there are quick time events, cinematic camera angles, and lots of contextual movements. We know the game doesn't follow the traditional level structure and instead has hubs which are explorable and able to be revisited. We know that weather and time will change on the island in game but not while we are standing still, but once we do progress with the time and weather, we can revisit a past hub to see the changes. We know Lara can balance on beams, we know Lara can swing on flags. Lara now has stealth.

Phlip 26-02-12 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linoshi Croft (Post 6001096)
They said that in Underworld then admitted afterwards it was all just smoke and mirrors... So, my hopes aren't up on that one.

They admitted they lied? D:

And yeah but like, thankfully it's pretty much a new team this time around.

larafan25 26-02-12 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phlip (Post 6001103)
They admitted they lied? D:

And yeah but like, thankfully it's pretty much a new team this time around.

No, by smoke and mirrors they mean the illusion that you can go somewhere when the game is not programmed to allow access to that area. No more sets, everything is part of the game world.

Linoshi Croft 26-02-12 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by larafan25 (Post 6001102)
^A level can be non-linear and still have smoke and mirrors, like some may have been in Underworld. Smoke and mirrors doesn't refer to a lying media campaign. But we do know now that there is an entire island, we may not be able to just crawl up cliffs and hop into other hub spaces, but the entire thing is apparently exploration at some point

Did we play the same game?
Underworld was as linear as hell for the most part. There attempt at trying to make me feel like I could go anywhere failed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by larafan25 (Post 6001109)
No, by smoke and mirrors they mean the illusion that you can go somewhere when the game is not programmed to allow access to that area. No more sets, everything is part of the game world.

I'd like to see them pull it off first before taking their word for it.

larafan25 26-02-12 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linoshi Croft (Post 6001113)
Did we play the same game?
Underworld was as linear as hell for the most part. There attempt at trying to make me feel like I could go anywhere failed.

It was less linear than the past three games in which this game allowed you to complete tasks in somewhat different orders.


Quote:

I'd like to see them pull it off first before taking their word for it.
I'll argue that the leaked E3 demo displays the most non-linear platforming section of all CD's games.

tomee 26-02-12 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linoshi Croft (Post 6001113)
Did we play the same game?
Underworld was as linear as hell for the most part. There attempt at trying to make me feel like I could go anywhere failed.

*their
Anyway there's certainly a developement after TRL and TRA. I don't think TRU was that bad. Sure there were some quite linear parts, but it had many complex areas too.

Linoshi Croft 26-02-12 16:25

I didn't say it was bad but I'll never say it wasn't linear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by larafan25 (Post 6001121)
It was less linear than the past three games in which this game allowed you to complete tasks in somewhat different orders.




I'll argue that the leaked E3 demo displays the most non-linear platforming section of all CD's games.

And..Still doesn't make me feel like I can go anywhere I want? :p

We saw about 15-30 seconds on the video and the surrounding area appeared tiny, I don't think we can say that just yet.

larafan25 26-02-12 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linoshi Croft (Post 6001127)
I didn't say it was bad but I'll never say it wasn't linear.



And..Still doesn't make me feel like I can go anywhere I want? :p

We saw about 15-30 seconds on the video and the surrounding area appeared tiny, I don't think we can say that just yet.

The surrounding area is the entire island.

Not to mention a path up the side of the mountain leading to more structures.

My point is that the small chunk of platforming we saw Lara in, offered no direct pathways only options. Not a single part of it looked like it was there for a purpose of her platforming, it looked dynamic and not designed. It doesn't matter the scale right now, it still looked to me like the least linear platforming segment of all CD's games, perhaps next to the final boss in TRU.

BTW That room is a good example of being able to go anywhere you think you can, as the place is surrounded by deadly goo so it's pretty much obvious.

Linoshi Croft 26-02-12 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by larafan25 (Post 6001134)
The surrounding area is the entire island.

Not to mention a path up the side of the mountain leading to more structures.

My point is that the small chunk of platforming we saw Lara in, offered no direct pathways only options. Not a single part of it looked like it was there for a purpose of her platforming, it looked dynamic and not designed. It doesn't matter the scale right now, it still looked to me like the least linear platforming segment of all CD's games, perhaps next to the final boss in TRU.

BTW That room is a good example of being able to go anywhere you think you can, as the place is surrounded by deadly goo so it's pretty much obvious.

We'll be within a hub. So we wont be able to go there...until we hit the next hub via a loading screen most probably. So, it will most probably just be a back drop :p

I'll agree that it appeared not designed and giving the player choice but you can't say for sure if the level itself rather than within plat-forming is that linear.

larafan25 26-02-12 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linoshi Croft (Post 6001144)
We'll be within a hub. So we wont be able to go there...until we hit the next hub via a loading screen most probably. So, it will most probably just be a back drop :p

I'll agree that it appeared not designed and giving the player choice but you can't say for sure if the level itself rather than within plat-forming is that linear.

It's not a backdrop, perhaps some pop-in textures, but not a backdrop.

As for the "level" being linear, there is no level. We know of two missions that take place in this hub, to find the wolf's den, and another to climb over the cliff to the blinking radio tower (seen past the giant cliffs in the leaked demo).

Spong 26-02-12 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by larafan25 (Post 6001121)
I'll argue that the leaked E3 demo displays the most non-linear platforming section of all CD's games.

Never played Soul Reaver then? But I guess you're talking in TR terms.

Like Linoshi said, that tiny glimpse of the village in the leaked demo shows us little to nothing. Not saying that there genuinely isn't anything, we just didn't see it. Any amount of speculation on your part is exactly that - speculation.

larafan25 26-02-12 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spong (Post 6001160)
Never played Soul Reaver then? But I guess you're talking in TR terms.

I played two minutes of it, I'm just talking about TR because that's what we're competing with.

Quote:

Like Linoshi said, that tiny glimpse of the village in the leaked demo shows us little to nothing.
It shows me the more lack of tacked on ledges as well as the non-designed level design that just looks dynamic.

Quote:

Not saying that there genuinely isn't anything, we just didn't see it. Any amount of speculation on your part is exactly that - speculation.
My speculation is pretty accurate and serves me well.

Linoshi Croft 26-02-12 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by larafan25 (Post 6001149)
It's not a backdrop, perhaps some pop-in textures, but not a backdrop.

As for the "level" being linear, there is no level. We know of two missions that take place in this hub, to find the wolf's den, and another to climb over the cliff to the blinking radio tower (seen past the giant cliffs in the leaked demo).

How do you know it's not a backdrop? :p

Hub level, whatever you want to call it you can't say the level is or is not linear based of you just speculating as Spong said. We have nothing to go on.

larafan25 26-02-12 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linoshi Croft (Post 6001167)
How do you know it's not a backdrop? :p

Because everything they have said has led to it not being a backdrop and they have said somewhere that the entire island is a whole. Sure, there probably will be loading screens when entering caves and tombs, depending on how deep and complex they are, but the island is there. It's also been said that we can go anywhere we see, so if what we see in the distance is a 3D backdrop(which it shouldn't be) it's just a backdrop of what we will be able to explore based on our player capabilities.

Quote:

Hub level, whatever you want to call it you can't say the level is or is not linear based of you just speculating as Spong said. We have nothing to go on.
We have an image of the hub, which is the level/ area in which the mission takes place.

If the level/ mission begins at Roth's unconscious body and ends up in the mountains, inside a linear cave, then we can see that the mission, getting to that one goal, is non-linear because that hub full of platforming is non-linear.

Linoshi Croft 26-02-12 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by larafan25 (Post 6001173)
Because everything they have said has led to it not being a backdrop and they have said somewhere that the entire island is a whole. Sure, there probably will be loading screens when entering caves and tombs, depending on how deep and complex they are, but the island is there. It's also been said that we can go anywhere we see, so if what we see in the distance is a 3D backdrop(which it shouldn't be) it's just a backdrop of what we will be able to explore based on our player capabilities.


We have an image of the hub, which is the level/ area in which the mission takes place.

If the level/ mission begins at Roth's unconscious body and ends up in the mountains, inside a linear cave, then we can see that the mission, getting to that one goal, is non-linear because that hub full of platforming is non-linear.

That's where you loose me "Because everything they have said" games can promise anything but not always deliver. When I see it, I'll believe it.

Which image...an image doesn't prove something isn't a backdrop.

Spong 26-02-12 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by larafan25 (Post 6001163)
It shows me...

That's all we need to know, isn't it? No offence, but we all know what you're like with your imagination and how you like to extrapolate grand ideas from the tiniest of details. Not saying you're wrong, but as of right now, you certainly can't be right either. And, given Crystal's track record for overselling the truth, using the "they have said" line doesn't back you up.

larafan25 26-02-12 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linoshi Croft (Post 6001182)
That's where you loose me "Because everything they have said" games can promise anything but not always deliver. When I see it, I'll believe it.

Okay, well I have trust.

Quote:

Which image...an image doesn't prove something isn't a backdrop.
That's not what I was referring to, we have an image (multiple images and a video) of the hub in which the mission takes place, so if that hub provides non-linear platforming/ exploration (which it does IMO) then that level/ mission is non-linear as that hub is essentially the grounds for what would be the level, except it's more of a dynamic playground in which more than one mission/ level will take place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spong (Post 6001184)
That's all we need to know, isn't it? No offence, but we all know what you're like with your imagination and how you like to extrapolate grand ideas from the tiniest of details.

And we all know how you don't read a single piece of information for lack of apparent care (even though you're here). I'll read the information I am given and come up with the best possible outcome for the game based on that, if I am proven wrong by facts I accept that and it doesn't get me down. I thought it could be and would be a nice idea if we could scale every cliff face with the axe, although was cautious about leading myself on to believe that it would be the truth, even though it's not far-fetched. As it turns out we must look for a specific quality of rock to interact with which I don't mind, but is opposite my initial thought.

Not to mention this is a completely different scenario in which I have watched Lara traverse through the actual game world and have looked at it and seen that the game world is not linear, does not lead in a line, but actually provides many routes, whether it be left/ right or up/ down. That hub is not linear to traverse and I'm not stepping out on a ledge by saying so, I'm not asking anyone to believe me, but I do have visuals on my side in which the doubters simply have doubt.

Quote:

Not saying you're wrong, but as of right now, you certainly can't be right either. And, given Crystal's track record for overselling the truth, using the "they have said" line doesn't back you up.
Yeah, well I also disagree with the "overselling the truth" statement, so it still doesn't apply to me.

I'm not holding CD's word against them, I'm interest in a good gaming experience, and they have said things which lead to the assumption that this could be the gaming experience I am looking for, I don't mind if things change or if I interpret things differently to how they truly are. Truly I don't care.

Maybe what we see beyond the cliff walls is a 3D backdrop...

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...fan25/dun2.png

Perhaps all of that is 3D space which we cannot access from that point, or will never access. That would mean everything we see is not accessible. Perhaps we can see other parts of the island but require a loading screen to take us there (even thought loading screens have been denied). My assumption or opinion is based off what is known or said to be, which is better than doubt to me.

Lukass 26-02-12 17:12

"If you can see it, you can go there and explore" :pi:

larafan25 26-02-12 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukass (Post 6001227)
"If you can see it, you can go there and explore" :pi:

People aren't willing to believe CD due to confusion between fact and tag-line.

Everyone uses the "explore everything, stop at nothing" against CD when it's just a tagline.

Lara Croft is not going to be born on this island, it's a tagline.

But we have quotes telling us "There was an illusion of freedom because of streaming and loading that would pop you out in a different location, but this is absolutely real..."

Obviously the den, an interior space was separated from the outside world, by a cutscene....The place crumbled to poop, we probably can't go back in there.

However when we're standing in an already large outdoor hub, and we can see space all around us and beyond the mountains, we know that is all one world.

There is a 3D tower blinking in the distance of the hub, supposedly in another section of the hub blocked off to us (like we can see in that one map of the island), it's one world.

klona 26-02-12 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukass (Post 6001227)
"If you can see it, you can go there and explore" :pi:

I really hope they're not lying. :(
But if they're not lying, then... that's a different story. :p

larafan25 26-02-12 17:19

I wonder if people will still have an issue with the game world not being made of blocks, although it wasn't in AOD so this shouldn't be an issue.

Linoshi Croft 26-02-12 17:20

Who used that tagline against them exactly :p?

Spong 26-02-12 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by larafan25 (Post 6001208)
And we all know how you don't read a single piece of information for lack of apparent care (even though you're here)...

Apart from the podcasts, I've read/watched/looked at everything Crystal has released pertaining to TR9 at least once.

Quote:

Originally Posted by larafan25 (Post 6001208)
I'll read the information I am given and come up with the best possible outcome for the game based on that, if I am proven wrong by facts I accept that and it doesn't get me down...

More power to you :tmb:
When it comes to Crystal and TR, I don't do that. Partly because I'm 36 and a game release isn't the grand event it was when I was a teenager, but mainly because I distrust Crystal and their ability as a result of three piss-poor games and the overselling they did for each. Which what I blame for you going through this...

Quote:

Originally Posted by larafan25 (Post 6001208)
I thought it could be and would be a nice idea if we could scale every cliff face with the axe, although was cautious about leading myself on to believe that it would be the truth, even though it's not far-fetched. As it turns out we must look for a specific quality of rock to interact with which I don't mind, but is opposite my initial thought.


larafan25 26-02-12 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linoshi Croft (Post 6001246)
Who used that tagline against them exactly :p?

People do, when they're hating TRU.

I'm thinking of Prince of Persia reboot, where there were hubs, and then that one main area with the temple. There were not loading screens.

Then of course there is Batman AA which did have loading screens separating the hubs, yet while in those hubs we still had a tease of what could be beyond the hubs and those spaces were accessible.

lcroft_lc 26-02-12 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukass (Post 6001227)
"If you can see it, you can go there and explore" :pi:

Lara can't go into water. So most of this ship I am afraid we can't explore. I wished if we could explore those Spanish Armada or Viking Longboats or wrecked Endurance etc. :(

larafan25 26-02-12 17:26

Oh look these, these seem key...

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...25/MAPS2-2.jpg

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...n25/MAPS-3.jpg

My markings are probably wrong, but I still feel like I'm the only one interested in these images and think they could help us...

Spong 26-02-12 17:31

^They clearly represent something in terms of areas of the game, but there's no scale and we have no idea how we'll be travelling between different areas. There may well be mountains to scale like you marked, but it might be a series of boring tunnels.

larafan25 26-02-12 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spong (Post 6001271)
^They clearly represent something in terms of areas of the game, but there's no scale and we have no idea how we'll be travelling between different areas. There may well be mountains to scale like you marked, but it might be a series of boring tunnels.

Or it might be a series of complex and interesting caves.

The only thing I see as a marker for scale is the two round areas. The area Lara climbs in the night hub is surrounded by large cliff walls, making it round, so that's one characteristic. The second is the fact that in the cutscene with Roth, we can see that the ground behind them just drops off, either to the ocean or to a lower hub area. Which means it should be the grey space closest to the outside of the island.

So that makes me think the monastery hub is just the smaller round hub I marked "from the leaked video". But then, there are paths up the mountain towards the radio tower, as there is a waterfalls splitting through the mountain, and on the far right side of the area there are more structures and cliffs leading in the direction of the megalithic statue. That means that the hub should have more to it than just a round shape, like the area above that round spot. However maybe the areas that we climb on the cliff are the dark spots, then it could be that those two sections of grey space are the same hub, just divided by a part of the mountain with a route through it.

Either way we know Lara climbs over the mountain to reach the radio tower, and we can see the radio tower beyond a cliff wall, so it's not likely for there to be a loading screen between these sections.

Spong 26-02-12 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by larafan25 (Post 6001285)
Or it might be a series of complex and interesting caves.

True. I was just considering your mountains idea as the 'good' extreme, then weighing it up with the tunnels idea as a 'bad' extreme. We just don't know. Roll on whenever the game is released so we can find out how they're actually gonna do it.

Rai 26-02-12 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by lcroft_lc (Post 6001253)
Lara can't go into water. So most of this ship I am afraid we can't explore. I wished if we could explore those Spanish Armada or Viking Longboats or wrecked Endurance etc. :(

Lara can go into water, we've seen her do it. It has been explained that Lara can wade in water. There just won't be water deep enough in which to swim in. So, if there is a ship that is located close enough so the water can be waded in, Lara can reach it. It has been said that we can explore some of the ships. In a podcast or article, I can't remember exactly, but I remember seeing or hearing this somewhere.

Lukass 26-02-12 18:10

Are those ships and planes only on the one beach from the trailer or are they all around the whole island?

leglion 26-02-12 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukass (Post 6001333)
Are those ships and planes only on the one beach from the trailer or are they all around the whole island?

All around the island. There's a ship in the cave.

Stevo505 26-02-12 18:42

How are they going to get away with Lara not being able to swim? Is all the wreckage just going to block her from going out too far?

larafan25 26-02-12 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stevo505 (Post 6001375)
How are they going to get away with Lara not being able to swim? Is all the wreckage just going to block her from going out too far?

I'm sure she can swim on the surface (like Legend England).

But I do wonder what will keep her on the island.


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