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-   -   Shadow of the Tomb Raider - General Chat (https://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=219557)

Linoshi Croft 05-02-19 18:30

I hope if Crystal take back control they follow in EM footsteps and keep combat to a minimal. I tried replaying Rise prior to Shadow coming out and I simply could not finish it because I was so sick of enemies being thrown at me. I wanted to be left to my own devices exploring the lost city, but instead you're rushed through it slaughtering Trinity and the deathless.

One thing I'd be interested in seeing if EM helmed the next game is the story they'd tell. I found Shadow's story all over the place, but I honestly think that was more down to fact they were trying to finish someone else's story, which includes continuing with their mistakes i.e. Trinity.

charmedangelin 05-02-19 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linoshi Croft (Post 8037759)
I hope if Crystal take back control they follow in EM footsteps and keep combat to a minimal. I tried replaying Rise prior to Shadow coming out and I simply could not finish it because I was so sick of enemies being thrown at me. I wanted to be left to my own devices exploring the lost city, but instead you're rushed through it slaughtering Trinity and the deathless.

Kitesh did go overkill with the combat, but everywhere else in Rise was perfect with combat.

Patrick star 05-02-19 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linoshi Croft (Post 8037759)
I hope if Crystal take back control they follow in EM footsteps and keep combat to a minimal.

There doesn't exist a single TR game in which combat was kept to a minimal to the degree of Shadow . People can like it or not but combat has always been a pillar of the franchise . Progression through your world in the classics was based on a mixture of exploration , platforming and combat (hence the dual pistols people are clamoring for) . Lara had a wide arsenal of weapons , ammo was littering the grounds . If I am to be asked to give a list of games in which combat is so trivial and optional TR would not be on the list .

It was especially annoying in Shadow because literally every single skill in the three trees was dedicated to combat and fighting , and the fact that you barely had any material to test those skills on was the final nail in the coffin .



Quote:

I tried replaying Rise prior to Shadow coming out and I simply could not finish it because I was so sick of enemies being thrown at me. I wanted to be left to my own devices exploring the lost city, but instead you're rushed through it slaughtering Trinity and the deathless.
Plot logic wise a Kitezh with minimal combat would appear so anticlimatic and odd . It was intense on combat , but for a reason , and a good one (imo) . Every single TR game was combat-heavy in its final stages , needless to mention TR2 .
Anyway , Kitezh was always available for calm exploration post-campaign .

Quote:

One thing I'd be interested in seeing if EM helmed the next game is the story they'd tell. I found Shadow's story all over the place, but I honestly think that was more down to fact they were trying to finish someone else's story, which includes continuing with their mistakes i.e. Trinity.
That's another thing I'd disagree with . I know I might get torn for saying this but I found the cliffhanger Rise had set up to be interesting and house tons of potential , The plots of TR2013 and Rise had their own flaws , but there was simply no excuse for EM to suddenly dig the focus on Lara's parents again from the grave after it was kinda resolved in Rise (adding the mom to the picture now , Yay !) , give Trinity an incredibly lame anticlimatic finale (again , this is my personal opinion but I was very excited about Trinity by the end of Rise and there's a ridiculously big variety of possibilities that could've been 10 times more interesting than Paiteetee) and make everything revolve around a random tribal village that's supposedly "hidden" and "lost" even if there was a modern town and an oil refinery right beside it .

And of course , there was no excuse to fill the PR campaign with talks about how Lara's going to be this grey anti-heroish person and how we're going to feel like she's the villain throughout the game and not delivering on that aspect .

FanosCroft 05-02-19 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick star (Post 8037853)
There doesn't exist a single TR game in which combat was kept to a minimal to the degree of Shadow . People can like it or not but combat has always been a pillar of the franchise . Progression through your world in the classics was based on a mixture of exploration , platforming and combat (hence the dual pistols people are clamoring for) . Lara had a wide arsenal of weapons , ammo was littering the grounds . If I am to be asked to give a list of games in which combat is so trivial and optional TR would not be on the list .

It was especially annoying in Shadow because literally every single skill in the three trees was dedicated to combat and fighting , and the fact that you barely had any material to test those skills on was the final nail in the coffin .





Plot logic wise a Kitezh with minimal combat would appear so anticlimatic and odd . It was intense on combat , but for a reason , and a good one (imo) . Every single TR game was combat-heavy in its final stages , needless to mention TR2 .
Anyway , Kitezh was always available for calm exploration post-campaign .



That's another thing I'd disagree with . I know I might get torn for saying this but I found the cliffhanger Rise had set up to be interesting and house tons of potential , The plots of TR2013 and Rise had their own flaws , but there was simply no excuse for EM to suddenly dig the focus on Lara's parents again from the grave after it was kinda resolved in Rise (adding the mom to the picture now , Yay !) , give Trinity an incredibly lame anticlimatic finale (again , this is my personal opinion but I was very excited about Trinity by the end of Rise and there's a ridiculously big variety of possibilities that could've been 10 times more interesting than Paiteetee) and make everything revolve around a random tribal village that's supposedly "hidden" and "lost" even if there was a modern town and an oil refinery right beside it .

And of course , there was no excuse to fill the PR campaign with talks about how Lara's going to be this grey anti-heroish person and how we're going to feel like she's the villain throughout the game and not delivering on that aspect .

This. All of this.
A stanning today:hug:

Legends 05-02-19 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orimus (Post 8037646)
It will be interesting to see how Avengers turns out and what lessons learned they'll carry over from that project to TR.

I know Crystal can do a lot of great stuff, so it'll be very interesting if they step up or not. I can't wait to find out when the time comes.

Linoshi Croft 05-02-19 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick star (Post 8037853)
There doesn't exist a single TR game in which combat was kept to a minimal to the degree of Shadow . People can like it or not but combat has always been a pillar of the franchise . Progression through your world in the classics was based on a mixture of exploration , platforming and combat (hence the dual pistols people are clamoring for) . Lara had a wide arsenal of weapons , ammo was littering the grounds . If I am to be asked to give a list of games in which combat is so trivial and optional TR would not be on the list .

Minimal was a poor choice of words on my end. I don't believe that minimal combat is a staple of the franchise. My point was simply that within the reboot trilogy I preferred less combat. This mainly stems from the fact that combat, especially in Rise was not well paced. It literally went from 0 to 100 in Kitezh and the sheer amount of combat ended up being a chore. Furthermore, the fact Lara had spent the entire game looking for this giant ancient city to be just rushed through it was disappointing.

I don't think the next game should be to the extreme that Shadow was, but I also do not want the extent of combat that was present in Crystals games. I think a decent chunk of combat but appropriately paced would be great.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick star (Post 8037853)
It was especially annoying in Shadow because literally every single skill in the three trees was dedicated to combat and fighting , and the fact that you barely had any material to test those skills on was the final nail in the coffin.

This I do agree with. I think they should of either completely ripped out the upgrade system and weapon crafting (To be honest I want this trivial rubbish gone either way) or increased the combat to make it's use worth it.

I was also disappointed that Shadow's combat system seemed to lack a lot of things from the previous two titles. I especially missed the weapon finishers. On the other hand I was pleased with the additional stealth features.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick star (Post 8037853)
Plot logic wise a Kitezh with minimal combat would appear so anticlimatic and odd . It was intense on combat , but for a reason , and a good one (imo) . Every single TR game was combat-heavy in its final stages , needless to mention TR2 .
Anyway , Kitezh was always available for calm exploration post-campaign

I see your point. However, I feel like the lost city should of been rife with puzzles and meaningful platforming and exploration. I am fine with over the top endings and bosses etc but maybe this should of been done outside of Kitezh? Alternatively, the first half of the area could of been focused more on puzzles and platforming and the second half combat. However, what we got for the most part was just a ton of combat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick star (Post 8037853)
That's another thing I'd disagree with . I know I might get torn for saying this but I found the cliffhanger Rise had set up to be interesting and house tons of potential , The plots of TR2013 and Rise had their own flaws , but there was simply no excuse for EM to suddenly dig the focus on Lara's parents again from the grave after it was kinda resolved in Rise (adding the mom to the picture now , Yay !) , give Trinity an incredibly lame anticlimatic finale (again , this is my personal opinion but I was very excited about Trinity by the end of Rise and there's a ridiculously big variety of possibilities that could've been 10 times more interesting than Paiteetee) and make everything revolve around a random tribal village that's supposedly "hidden" and "lost" even if there was a modern town and an oil refinery right beside it.

The introduction of Trinity was a complete and utter mistake on Crystals part IMO. Even if it was them who completed the trilogy Trinity was made too big and too powerful to ever successfully destroy. So, I honestly believe this aspect of the story would of been unsatisfying whoever developed the story. In regard to Lara's parents being reintroduced, I do agree I was unhappy with this decision. Personally, I felt like the main story of Rise for the most part allowed Lara to put her daddy issues to rest and of course the DLC touched on her mother.

I of course do not know what happened behind closed doors during development, but I do personally believe that Crystal would of had some involvement in the development of the story of Shadow. It would be bizarre for them to start the trilogy, yet have absolutely no control over it's resolution. So, I do still stand by my point that I'd be intrigued to see what EM would do without any external input or constraints. Additionally, it would not surprise me if it was Crystal who were the ones to include Lara's parents in Shadow. I mean just look at the general opinion over the mummy and daddy stuff in LAU, yet they still shoved the same rubbish in the rebooted universe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick star (Post 8037853)
And of course , there was no excuse to fill the PR campaign with talks about how Lara's going to be this grey anti-heroish person and how we're going to feel like she's the villain throughout the game and not delivering on that aspect.

I have strong feelings about the promotional campaign and I do like yourself feel like it was very misleading.

Chamayoo 05-02-19 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick star (Post 8037853)
There doesn't exist a single TR game in which combat was kept to a minimal to the degree of Shadow .

Oh I have the sentiment that TRU, AOD and maybe TRA and TR5 had less combat ? :ponder:

Athukraz 05-02-19 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chamayoo (Post 8037935)
Oh I have the sentiment that TRU, AOD and maybe TRA and TR5 had less combat ? :ponder:

No, shadow has the least amount. It's just the difference between 2000s and 2018 combat and the way it works that gives this illusion

thlenoir 05-02-19 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chamayoo (Post 8037935)
Oh I have the sentiment that TRU, AOD and maybe TRA and TR5 had less combat ? :ponder:

I agree with you, there are TR games with less combats, but people like to complain about Shadow ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Athukraz (Post 8037936)
No, shadow has the least amount

Not true, replay your classics.

Linoshi Croft 05-02-19 23:04

I think Shadow would definitely be among the games with the least amount of combat, but I don't think it takes the top spot in that regard. :ponder:


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