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fallenangle 06-09-19 01:02

TR1(PC) - Minimum Damage Run
 
I've done this before but not for some time. Noticing a few things either new to me or I'd forgotten about - like the shortcut jump over the rocks in the Colosseum which means you can cut out all the stuff under the arena.

Has anyone beaten those three wolves in the Tomb Of Tichocan room which you drop into without using the shotgun? This has been the only place I've felt I've had to use anything but the twin pistols/default weapon in a 'no scratch' run through any TR. I've even beaten Willard in TR3 just using the pistols. I tried and suspect it is possible here but the wolf formation is so unpredictable there would seem to be a huge element of luck. If you even just drop onto one then it is instant damage.


Has anyone had Pierre refuse to disappear (2nd time) at the Colosseum despite being peppered with hundreds of rounds?

ANoDE 06-09-19 06:12

I think for the Pierre problem it's vital that he goes off-camera for him to disappear. If you keep him visible all the time, he'll just stay. At least that's my impression.

Maverin 06-09-19 11:28

Ah yes the wolves. There is an element of luck required but it's definitely doable. Just save and reload and go with the trial and error element. As soon as you can land Lara and start running without taking a hit, save again, and so on.

I had the same with Pierre. Make sure he has taken enough damage, and remember 'the longer the distance, the fewer damage he takes'. Then you have to give him a chance to go off camera and disappear.

fallenangle 06-09-19 12:28

I thought about using a save when landing safely but it felt wrong. I do, occasionally, save my way through difficult areas when doing a run like this but it feels a bit cheap.

I found using a roll when she recovers from the drop landing often worked to avoid the first attack set and I'd get one or even two of the wolves quite easily if I jumped LC back from there. But the third one circles differently each time and often comes in from left or right without LC locking on.

Not being able to do the tricky but useful forward jump with mid-air twist in TR1, my preferred technique in this sort of case, makes it more difficult. Here if you roll on landing from a forward jump that's when the wolf tends to get her.

On that second Pierre encounter where he refused to disappear, which also includes a new lion I actually dropped down into the arena and killed the lion from there. I tried the same thing with Pierre and thought I'd got him. However when LC climbed out I noticed him running back from the shrouded side of the arena so I hid LC in the nearby enclosed area near the first opened door.

Pierre arrived at the rocks near the climb out point so I moved LC around the 'pillar' and took some shots. He went into his shooting position so I jumped back, went around the other side and running and jumping I somehow closed on him without getting hit. I then used the usual run behind, roll, fire technique.

He started to run off back towards the exit and I thought that was it but instead of continuing he turned around and tried to loose off some more shots. So I ran at and past him again did the same roll and fire thing, he ran back towards the rocks, turned and again went into the shooting posture.

I think we did about three rounds of this before he final tagged her and even then he did not run off. The fight could have gone on forever if I hadn't ended it.

On reload I confronted him from a completely different position closer to the exit and and he disappeared down the passage towards the entrance to the building very quickly and did not return.

Neo_v23 06-09-19 14:17

In my opinion, killing the 3 dogs in Tomb of Qualopec with pistols and getting away with no scratch is mostly luck. Of course it needs a nice strategy, but that's only like 10-20%, the rest is luck. Also if you notice, sometimes when you shoot from a distance (about 3-4 blocks away for example), sometimes it takes 4 double-shots to kill a wolf, other times it takes 5, and in very rare cases maybe 6. I assume that's because Lara's aiming depends a little on luck, too. So i've come to the conclusion that in order to beat'em, you'll have to try until you get lucky.

Now about Pierre in Colosseum. He's pretty easy and he definetely dissapears after a while. Maybe it takes like 100 shots because he runs across the other side of the Colosseum, so maybe Lara misses or she inflicts less damage? I've encountered this in TR1, too. When an enemy is too far away, it takes way more shots to kill him. So, i advise patience.

fallenangle 06-09-19 15:15

You can tell when Pierre is being hit because you get blood spray and this time was no different. I could not have much closer and must have put in at least a hundred shots before he got one hit.

Longer distances, yes, it does take more shots for a kill, I've noticed that in all the games but usually you still see the blood if you're getting hits even at range. With the wolves here the hit chance % can be crucial in the relatively small area. One more shot to kill can be the difference between success and LC being last gasp nibbled. :)

Neo_v23 06-09-19 17:35

Well, you made my curiosity raise about this dog part, so i went for some trials :p

I found out that there is probably no "guaranteed success" way to deal with them and not take damage at all. There is the "luck" factor as stated in previous post, but i tried to find a way with higher possibility to succeed. I have tried several methods, but i choose this one as the most effective

1) First, stay as far left as possible
https://i.imgur.com/zaO9qQQ.png?1

2) Roll 3 times to fall, and whilst falling, immediately pick up pistols
https://i.imgur.com/pkvYW3M.png?1

3) Start firing (she will probably start firing the wolf in the picture)
https://i.imgur.com/S2bVl2k.png?1

4) Jump to the right as soon as possible (the first wolf should be dead, so start aiming at another wolf). Also the wolf that approaches you, will probably never be quick enough to bite you in this spot
https://i.imgur.com/TieGWec.png?1

5) As soon as you land, immediately jump to the left
https://i.imgur.com/8P1rYEY.png?1

6) When you land, immediately roll
https://i.imgur.com/yuLI2FV.png?1

7) And immediately roll again
https://i.imgur.com/GIAGsZ1.png?1

Tip: When falling and drawing guns, she might aim to the far left wolf, so better tap fast 3-4 times the action button to change for sure Laras aiming to the far right wolf

If the moves are executed as above, in my experience, Lara will be scratchless 30-40% of the time. It's 5-6 specific movements that work sometimes. I suppose it's better than going randomly down there without a plan.

If you want to give it a try, let me know the results.

ian2006 06-09-19 19:54

You could try the breaking tiles glitch and use the walk button and teleport to the bottom with the guns already out.

fallenangle 07-09-19 01:24

Now that would undoubtedly be cheating. :)

Thanks Neo_v23 for that. I'm too far past that to go back but when I've finished the run through I'll return to Qualopec (corrected - I always get it mixed up with Tichocan) and try those suggested techniques/sequence.

TombRaiderTim 07-09-19 02:39

Minimal damage is a problem once it comes to The Great Pyramid when re-entering the Scion Room. :ponder:

fallenangle 07-09-19 14:49

Yes, I know there are more hard parts to come, particularly later on in Atlantis. As said I've done this before but forgotten where some of the tough bits are. So far it is as I remembered in that the most annoying things for 'no scratch' are the gun wielding enemies you can't kill.

I'm up to The Cistern and there are at least two or three places where I know they were a pain. But I remember how to deal with them because it was probably the same method used for my first no-medipack run too.

Maverin 08-09-19 10:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by fallenangle (Post 8129393)
Yes, I know there are more hard parts to come, particularly later on in Atlantis. As said I've done this before but forgotten where some of the tough bits are. So far it is as I remembered in that the most annoying things for 'no scratch' are the gun wielding enemies you can't kill.

I'm up to The Cistern and there are at least two or three places where I know they were a pain. But I remember how to deal with them because it was probably the same method used for my first no-medipack run too.

I found the encounters with Pierre to be relatively easy. AI isn't that smart in Tomb Raider I. Just play the wall hugging game and you'll win. There is one part in the cistern where he appears after you retrieve a key. The wall hugging is especially useful there. Lara moves much faster than the AI :)

TombRaiderTim 08-09-19 13:10

The only thing is, that with TR1 and its AI, if you are in the range of fire with gun wielding enemies, which can be from quite a distance, they have an almost perfect aim, so I always found running straight towards a wall or column and hiding behind it provides the best cover and easiest way to make Pierre vanish.

fallenangle 08-09-19 15:47

In St.Francis Folly I remembered what I did in earlier runs and that is to press close to the walls/steps near the entrance to the Damocles room. Pierre can shoot LC while she is getting there but when in the right position he just runs about on the floor way bellow diagonally opposite her position.

Edge her out and LC will lock on to him but he won't fire back. Easy to do enough to make him go and not sustain any damage ................................unless you get blase and forget to hold 'Walk' and fall off the edge just afterwards.

Of course, I did not do that. :)

Apart from the last Pierre encounter in The Cistern breezed through that no damage and now onto Tomb of Tichocan.

How does Pierre avoid the snappy door trap in that narrow passage and for that matter the lions in the St. Francis and the Colosseum? And where does he actually run away to in places where there is no exit? Rhetorical questions really but these gameplay/design decisions have always bothered me right from the first play back in 1997.

ANoDE 10-09-19 05:15

Pierre's a sneaky bastard. And a very proficient hide-and-seek player. :P

Yeah, it always bothered me as well that there's no real explanation on how he's able to do these things. But I didn't overthink it. The game has dinosaurs after all.

fallenangle 12-09-19 12:07

Dinosaurs are or at least were real things. :) Disappearing through a solid brick walls, not being bothered by crocodile and lion attacks either is supernatural.

Question: I'm well on my way but I hit one apparently unavoidable damage area in The Obelisk Of Khamoon. I'm not just going for minimum/no damage but also all secrets. The problem there is the one behind the sun symbol on the shorter column in the main room.

The only way to get it legitimately seems to be to jump from the tall column. Problem is LC takes 5% damage on landing whatever you do.

I've tried triggering the secret but landing in the water as a sort of compromise but couldn't even do that. The secret seems to need her to land solidly on the top of the column. Short of using the corner bug, which I did just to see that it could be done, is there any way to land or trigger the secret and not take damage?

BTW went through Sanctuary Of The Scion reasonably easily using just pistols. Even the first two guys (side jumping with LC's back to the wall) and the last three (knowing the two smaller monsters won't go past the last corner in the passageway - learned from my earlier runs) were not that tough. Just a bit of patience and quick shooting from cover were all that was necessary.

EDIT 2

Up to the last level and have found another unavoidable drop damage place. After beating the Atlantean horror, which I did just with pistols, admittedly with a few mid-fight saves, when you have to drop back into the Scion room even a hanging drop results in 5% damage. There seems to be no alternative.

I also had earlier problems in the 'crispy' Lara doppelganger area, not with damage, but with the doppelganger refusing to move from the start point except to draw the pistols. Stella's web site guide, as is so often the case for things like this, had a solution that worked. But it had me worried I'd hit a game killing bug as I only had two save slots and both had the same problem.

I'd already had to repeat most of Atlantis once as I'd picked the slimmest of damage (probably drop damage) somewhere, had not noticed it and had saved that too in both save slots. :(

EDIT 3

Could not find any way to avoid the hang drop damage after the Atlantean horror fight but got though to the end of the game with no more.

Natla was a pain and whilst I'm sure you can do it no damage with just pistols throughout, if you're patient and lucky, I resorted to the magnums to get through the first part of the fight. Once she's on the ground just using the standard pistols is not that tough as long as you do not let her get too close.

Anyway finished now - might go back and try the three wolves in Qualopec using just the pistols but I'm pretty happy having done it minimal damage with all secrets and all just using pistols with those two exceptions mentioned.

Eycore 16-09-19 12:49

I have recently started doing the no damage challenge with a 1HP mod. I finished it with glitches here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jc_A9VBeul8 (it's only possible with glitches).

I have been looking into the forced damage allowed / minimum damage category (glitchless). I could try and look for a setup to trigger the obelisk secret without taking damage. I'm pretty sure I have done it just from failing a jump there.

If I can find that then the drop before the Scion room should be the only place you take damage without glitches. You can also skip the Pyramid darts with a precise jump and shimmying.

EDIT

I have found a way to trigger the secret without taking damage, hope this helps :D

Neo_v23 16-09-19 20:43

Wow. I've tried to find a way to avoid dart damage in the last level but i was unable to do it, so i thought it was impossible. From the 4 darts, i could only avoid the first one with a longjump.

Does it need extremely accurate timing, right?

Eycore 16-09-19 20:52

It is very precise and requires a long setup. You can skip the first two darts with a late grab jump (using inventory buffers) and then you can frame advance at the right time to shimmy passed the last two darts.



I will try this at some point, fun times ahead xD

Neo_v23 16-09-19 21:56

Sick!!

I assume the first two darts (especially the second) are impossible to cross without damage by shimmying, because Lara will have lower height and the dart will hit her arms? Thats why this buffering technique has to be performed to skip shimmying through the first two darts?

Good luck with those :D

Eycore 16-09-19 22:13

Yeah unfortunately the second dart can only be skipped with a jump. I think it has to do with it being the only one that is level, while the others are sloped.

fallenangle 16-09-19 22:43

That dart area I'd forgotten about and caused me some issues too. It is really a question of your start position on the grabable edge. If you start from the wrong position you can get past the first dart OK but you may then be set up wrongly to have enough time to shimmy past the others. There's nothing you can really do about it except restart.

It was a bit of a lottery and I think I must have triggered that save glitch for the last dart because I thought there were only three.

Thanks for that Obelisk Of Khamoon YT video - that is exactly what I was trying to do but obviously did not find the sweet spot which would trigger the secret but allow you to land in the water.

Interesting no damage run too; with glitches, not all secrets and using more powerful weapons avoids a lot of the difficult places and enemy encounters. For instance in the Tomb Of Tichocan you can't pick Pierre off fast enough for him not to close and shoot Lara. I had to go up on the balcony and plink him carefully from there.

There was also some help from the game in that after a certain amount of damage he started trying to run into the next room and as the door is locked actually got stuck there and easily finished off.

I do not understand that drop into Scion room. Is it a glitch requiring Lara to be in a certain position on the collapsing floor? If so, again, that is just what I tried and never found the sweet spot so accepted the damage.

All useful info and entertaining too. Should help others who want to try these sorts of challenges.

Eycore 16-09-19 23:06

I'll do all secrets with glitches next, and then i'll try the glitchless way with minimum damage.

Ah yes when Pierre runs into the tomb, that is hilarious. Pierre is probably the most frustrating part of this challenge. :D

While on top of the collapsing floor, just sidestep and she will teleport to the bottom. Position doesn't matter, as long as you are doing the sidestep animation when the floor collapses, it should work.

fallenangle 17-09-19 00:09

Ah-ha so sidestepping is the trick. I'll have to remember that -thanks for the tip.

EDIT

Just went back to the Obelisk Of Khamoon and blow me down if I didn't trigger that secret on the second pillar on my very first attempt without even referencing that YT video again.

Eycore 30-10-19 19:31

Just a little update, we have found that no damage is possible in other games too.

  • Unfinished Business (with glitches if collecting all secrets)
  • Tomb Raider 2 (on mobile)
    - With roll you can glide in the air, and drop into the pool at the start of Wreck of the Maria Doria
  • Golden Mask (without glitches)
  • Tomb Raider 3 (New Game +)
    - Can skip south pacific in NG+, and there are glitches to avoid the forced damage in Temple Ruins and RX Tech Mines
  • Lost Artefact (without glitches)

Neo_v23 05-11-19 14:21

I haven't explored yet TR3 that much, but in TR2 aren't there more times that you're forced to take damage? In Wreck of the Maria Doria, falling on top of the boat in the drained room and in Catacombs of the Talion the fall in the first big area.

By the way, these no damage runs seem very interesting. We should start a thread exploring all the TR games on this area.

fallenangle 06-11-19 13:52

There's a cheat/bug for getting on the dingy on the 'lake' in TR2 but as I recall it I couldn't find a way, legitimate or otherwise, of not getting damage when dropping onto the boat in the drained room ^.

That's one place where I accepted damage, like that earlier slide/collapsing floor when entering the Wreck of the Maria Doria (PC).

Eycore 19-11-19 15:17

That would be a great idea, i'm addicted to no damage currently and it would be nice to share strats :D

The drained room does look impossible with or without glitches. You can pickup the secrets and then backtrack to the engine room and use a QWOP or item embed to get up.

https://streamable.com/ki7u9

For catacombs, we can again use a QWOP or a dive bug to get down without taking damage. Here are examples.

QWOP


Dive bug

Neo_v23 20-11-19 10:30

Wow! This QWOP is such a useful technique. I've never used it, so i don't know it's capabilities, to think and test it on areas with forced damage for possible avoidance.

This "no damage" category seems way easier when played glichless...you just go casual ways and accept the unavoidable damage. I myself have done it glitchless TR1 and almost completed TR2, with the only speciality that i complete the game 100% (all kills, pickups, etc.), to make it more challenging. But as i said, i saw unavoidable fall damage at Catacombs of the Talion, and i didn't think twice. I fell.

It would be cool to share strats yeah, but i'm a total noobie at glitches, so i don't think i have any knowledge to offer that you already don't know :ponder:


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