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Zebra 21-07-16 13:07

Honestly, I kind of want them to replace the supporting cast with entirely new characters. I'd love them to keep the ethnic diversity but as far as backgrounds and personalities go, the game's supporting cast is pretty much a lost cause. The only character that's salvagable is Roth, really. (EDIT: Well, and Hoshi and Himiko if you can count those as supporting characters.)

OrangeFr3ak 22-07-16 08:47

Should they change Lara's backstory a little if it's going to be based on the 2013 game? Maybe make Lara a little older by a couple years like 22-25 instead of 21, but still young enough to be inexperienced? Since Alicia Vikander would be reaching 30 when the movie releases.

SamCactus101 22-07-16 09:09

There'll definitely be some changes in the movie. Not sure which ones.
I think eventhough Alicia is close to 30 yo, she could pass off as being in their early 20s. She looks young. I thought she was in her mid-20s.

Tonyrobinson 22-07-16 09:57

Warcraft did amazing in Asian markets I think having this set in Japan could do wonders for the film if they chose to target Asia too especially with Himiko and the Oni. It could rack up a lot of additional income overseas especially as the Legend of Yamatai and Queen Himiko are both documented in China and Japan.

SamCactus101 24-07-16 13:55

Agreed. With the right marketing and appeal to them Japanese, it could be big.

shockwave_pulsar00 24-07-16 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zebra (Post 7619355)
Honestly, I kind of want them to replace the supporting cast with entirely new characters. I'd love them to keep the ethnic diversity but as far as backgrounds and personalities go, the game's supporting cast is pretty much a lost cause. The only character that's salvagable is Roth, really. (EDIT: Well, and Hoshi and Himiko if you can count those as supporting characters.)

I truly dont understand this rationale for videogame movies. I want to understand, but I don't see the logistics of replacing a whole cast except maybe one or two. What would it serve to replace a cast of characters and then put knockoffs in their place? They could be better written? They could apply that same initiative to the cast from the game, because they aren't unsalvageable IMO. Comic book characters would be screwed if they only had the one series to rely on.

My thoughts on it are, if you can replace the rest of the cast or make changes to race and gender...why should Lara be safe from it? She only needs to be English, female, some what young, and have the name Lara Croft. She could be of any racial background as long as she loves Tomb Raiding.

I know the argument will arise that, "Lara is the main character! She's the important part of the film not the supporting cast."

My rebuttal is, both Roth and Sam are important to Lara's character in Reboot. Jonah also became more important towards the end and even more so in the sequel and comics. The rest of the cast have some issues, but there is enough there to work off of if they include "The Beginning" comic and ask Rhianna Pratchett & co.

Tonyrobinson 24-07-16 15:31

An actually good soundtrack this time would be great. There were a few good tracks in COL but watching it recently a lot of the tracks made me cringe like when they parachute of the construction site and this cheesy 80's thriller music starts to play. My eyes rolled so hard.

Zebra 24-07-16 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by shockwave_pulsar00 (Post 7622314)
I truly dont understand this rationale for videogame movies. I want to understand, but I don't see the logistics of replacing a whole cast except maybe one or two. What would it serve to replace a cast of characters and then put knockoffs in their place? They could be better written? They could apply that same initiative to the cast from the game, because they aren't unsalvageable IMO. Comic book characters would be screwed if they only had the one series to rely on.

My thoughts on it are, if you can replace the rest of the cast or make changes to race and gender...why should Lara be safe from it? She only needs to be English, female, some what young, and have the name Lara Croft. She could be of any racial background as long as she loves Tomb Raiding.

I know the argument will arise that, "Lara is the main character! She's the important part of the film not the supporting cast."

My rebuttal is, both Roth and Sam are important to Lara's character in Reboot. Jonah also became more important towards the end and even more so in the sequel and comics. The rest of the cast have some issues, but there is enough there to work off of if they include "The Beginning" comic and ask Rhianna Pratchett & co.

That's sort of what they've done in both LAU and the reboot, isn't it? They may not have changed her racial background but they basically completely replaced her personality and changed large parts of her bio.

And yeah, to me they are unsalvagable because, no matter how much they improve their cardboard personalities or their dialogue, if they're still the same characters, I'll constantly be reminded of how terrible they were in the game while watching the film. Also, in the grander scheme of things, I don't think any of the reboot characters except for Lara are essential to making a Tomb Raider film. If you look at it as being specifically a film version of the reboot game, I can sort of see where you're coming from, but I think of it more as a Tomb Raider (as in the whole franchise) film that's taking some inspiration from the reboot game.

Trenton 24-07-16 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zebra (Post 7622336)
If you look at it as being specifically a film version of the reboot game, I can sort of see where you're coming from, but I think of it more as a Tomb Raider (as in the whole franchise) film that's taking some inspiration from the reboot game.

This. I think unless the film is somehow supposed to tie in with the rebooted universe and be part of that same continuity (and I doubt it) then there is no reason to keep the exact same characters. It's better to take the game as inspiration and then sample what worked and discard what didn't work. The most important thing is making a good film, not a faithful adaptation of the game. :)

Heidi_w_ 24-07-16 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by shockwave_pulsar00 (Post 7622314)
My rebuttal is, both Roth and Sam are important to Lara's character in Reboot. Jonah also became more important towards the end and even more so in the sequel and comics. The rest of the cast have some issues, but there is enough there to work off of if they include "The Beginning" comic and ask Rhianna Pratchett & co.

Exactly. Replacing the characters with new ones who will have the same role/function is nonsensical, especially as it's pretty much confirmed now that the movie will be based on the 2013 game rather than an entirely different origin story. Let Sam be Sam, Reyes be Reyes, etc. Plenty of people liked those characters anyway -- not here in the TRF obviously but in the fandom as a whole.

I don't expect people who hated the reboot will love the movie anyway, so let the movie appeal to the wider public and they'll have rejuvenated movie franchise to coincide with future reboot games -- they'll be self-supporting.


shockwave_pulsar00 24-07-16 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zebra (Post 7622336)
That's sort of what they've done in both LAU and the reboot, isn't it? They may not have changed her racial background but they basically completely replaced her personality and changed large parts of her bio.

And yeah, to me they are unsalvagable because, no matter how much they improve their cardboard personalities or their dialogue, if they're still the same characters, I'll constantly be reminded of how terrible they were in the game while watching the film. Also, in the grander scheme of things, I don't think any of the reboot characters except for Lara are essential to making a Tomb Raider film. If you look at it as being specifically a film version of the reboot game, I can sort of see where you're coming from, but I think of it more as a Tomb Raider (as in the whole franchise) film that's taking some inspiration from the reboot game.

CD was charged with revamping Tomb Raider gameplay for gamers with the release of LAU. They made changes because they wanted/needed to separate themselves from Core's work, but stay relatively similar to what fans loved about the past games. (Whether they did that is debatable)

Reboot was just that, a complete change of the series in CDs vision.

As Heidi_w_ said, both Roar and Alicia have mentioned it's a film version of Reboot, not a general Tomb Raider movie. Warner Bros greenlight the project because of Reboot's success both with critics and the general gaming community.

For them to do what Hollywood always does and just make a film and slap Tomb Raider on it would be frankly stupid. We've had too many videogame movies do the later and are almost always disappointing.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Trenton (Post 7622347)
This. I think unless the film is somehow supposed to tie in with the rebooted universe and be part of that same continuity (and I doubt it) then there is no reason to keep the exact same characters. It's better to take the game as inspiration and then sample what worked and discard what didn't work. The most important thing is making a good film, not a faithful adaptation of the game. :)

It's supposed to be a direct adaptation of Reboot. Like Harry Potter was of its books. Changes from the books were expected, but enough of it was the same. That's what I'm looking for in this film.

A good filmmaking team can both adapt the game faithfully and make it great to watch for new comers. The problem is Hollywood never does that. They try to change what they base it off of and make something fans and many casual audiences hate.

Zebra 24-07-16 19:33

^The game's story and characters were not among the things critics praised, though. In fact, I remember that the very first exclusive review for the reboot that got released specifically mentioned that the game's stereotypical supporting characters were one of its weaknesses. I'm often disappointed when video game films deviate too much from the source material but when the source material's story is as bad as the reboot's, you really, really should deviate from it.

Trenton 24-07-16 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by shockwave_pulsar00 (Post 7622494)
It's supposed to be a direct adaptation of Reboot. Like Harry Potter was of its books. Changes from the books were expected, but enough of it was the same. That's what I'm looking for in this film.

Has it been officially confirmed it will be a direct adaptation? In interviews with the director and others in regards to the film it sounds more like they are taking inspiration from the game rather than directly adapting it. IDK. :confused:

Quote:

Originally Posted by shockwave_pulsar00 (Post 7622494)
A good filmmaking team can both adapt the game faithfully and make it great to watch for new comers. The problem is Hollywood never does that. They try to change what they base it off of and make something fans and many casual audiences hate.

The thing is the reboot game already tried to emulate a Hollywood film so the source material lends itself very well for adaptation. All they need is to throw out the stuff that didn't work too well and keep the good stuff (and improve on it more). :)

Heidi_w_ 24-07-16 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zebra (Post 7622527)
^The game's story and characters were not among the things critics praised, though.

Actually they did:

http://www.gamespot.com/reviews/tomb.../1900-6404378/

http://ca.ign.com/articles/2013/02/2...aider-review-2

http://www.gamesradar.com/tomb-raider-review/

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/ri...critic-reviews

I can go on and on, but suffice to say Rise's story and gameplay were almost overwhelmingly praised by both gamers and critics; as such I would expect the WB folks to take the story to heart when they wrote the movie script -- the gravitas that the new game conveys might be one of the reasons they went with a highly accomplished actress (an Oscar winner, no less), figuring it's easier to train an accomplished thespian in stuntwork than the reverse.

Either way, we'll get a good idea how close they'll be sticking to TR2013's story once the rest of the cast is announced in the coming weeks.

Tonyrobinson 24-07-16 23:10

I think that the movie will be taking a leaf from the reboot game, Alicia did say in a recent interview about the praise that the rebooted game received for its writing.

Interestingly enough she also mentioned Rise in the same interview I think it was with Digital Spy. Perhaps their goal is to make a hybrid of both games. I could see them deviate were appropriate just incase they have their own ideas for future instalments and aren't strictly having to adhere to the game plot.

It would be rather jarring to have Sam appear in the first film and not the second and support Lara with a host of new characters if they want this to be a good series we need retainable and well written characters that will span multiple films. Whilst in the game its fine for a film adaption it wouldn't be as well received that is why if they plan to follow the games they should introduce the likes of Ana as early as possible.

In terms of opening scenes to tie in future films Richard's suicide and funeral could be a good scene to open on.

Trenton 25-07-16 10:12

^Or if we're really lucky there will be no Sam and no dead parents issues in the film at all! :D
(I know that's hoping too much though :o)

Tonyrobinson 25-07-16 11:59

Alicia spoke with Belfast Telegraph about the weapons of the reboot and it seems that she indeed with have the bow and axe as her signature weapons this time around. Here's hoping the pistols get some action too.

Click.

Heidi_w_ 25-07-16 12:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonyrobinson (Post 7622659)
I think that the movie will be taking a leaf from the reboot game, Alicia did say in a recent interview about the praise that the rebooted game received for its writing.

Interestingly enough she also mentioned Rise in the same interview I think it was with Digital Spy. Perhaps their goal is to make a hybrid of both games. I could see them deviate were appropriate just incase they have their own ideas for future instalments and aren't strictly having to adhere to the game plot.

It would be rather jarring to have Sam appear in the first film and not the second and support Lara with a host of new characters if they want this to be a good series we need retainable and well written characters that will span multiple films. Whilst in the game its fine for a film adaption it wouldn't be as well received that is why if they plan to follow the games they should introduce the likes of Ana as early as possible.

In terms of opening scenes to tie in future films Richard's suicide and funeral could be a good scene to open on.

I do like the idea of Ana appearing in the first movie -- would seem innocuous enough to most moviegoers even though we gamers will know all about her...same with Sam, she should appear in the second movie as I doubt we'll be getting much of the comic storylines in there -- her absence would be jarring.

And love the fact that Alicia's using the bow -- wonder if she's gotten any practice in already?

Tonyrobinson 25-07-16 12:34

I can give or take Sam and the rebooted storyline in the games at times but the film medium is vastly different from the game medium and I actually do think an on screen version of the game could be great in film form and trim and pace it more appropriately. Although I don't hate TR2013 and Rise was an improvement above that. My major issues are with the lack of variety in the gameplay as opposed to the story itself.

It makes perfect sense that they would base it off the game given the critical praise it received And I do like this characterisation of Lara and being on film it is different enough for movie goers to accept as a reboot.

I just hope we start getting more casting news and they aren't waiting to reveal the cast in the press release when production starts. I atleast expect them to announce the villain character within the next month or two.

SamCactus101 25-07-16 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonyrobinson (Post 7622945)
Alicia spoke with Belfast Telegraph about the weapons of the reboot and it seems that she indeed with have the bow and axe as her signature weapons this time around. Here's hoping the pistols get some action too.

Click.

Nice. Yeah, the movie is based on the reboot after all. I hope it's not too late to include dual pistols as part of her arsenal too. Early on. Not in the end like the game.

quetzalcoatl 25-07-16 15:38

The bow and arrow was never Lara's thing - they got that from Hunger Games and its success! It's been done. Having Lara with a bow and arrow is tired already and also just weird, I mean, who runs around with a bow and arrow these days? It was all right for the Hunger Games because it was set in an alternate world.

Heidi_w_ 25-07-16 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonyrobinson (Post 7622966)
I just hope we start getting more casting news and they aren't waiting to reveal the cast in the press release when production starts. I atleast expect them to announce the villain character within the next month or two.

Liked your tweet suggesting Robert Carlyle for Mathias, btw -- he'd be great! And not so over-the-top as he was in-game :)

SamCactus101 25-07-16 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by quetzalcoatl (Post 7623152)
The bow and arrow was never Lara's thing - they got that from Hunger Games and its success! It's been done. Having Lara with a bow and arrow is tired already and also just weird, I mean, who runs around with a bow and arrow these days? It was all right for the Hunger Games because it was set in an alternate world.

How about Arrow? That guy from that TV show? And Hawkeye from The Avengers? Those two are superheroes sure but they still wield a bow and arrow in these days.

I can picture the comparisons to Hunger Games already? Not to mention Katniss has a braid too. :p

Tonyrobinson 25-07-16 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heidi_w_ (Post 7623161)
Liked your tweet suggesting Robert Carlyle for Mathias, btw -- he'd be great! And not so over-the-top as he was in-game :)

I think it was Rai who originally suggested that somewhere back but I've been digging him in recently and think he'd be great. :)

As far as the bow debate goes Tomb Raider announced the bow as Lara's main weapon in the 2009 leaked concepts. Hunger Games wasn't even hardly known back then.

lizardspock110 25-07-16 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonyrobinson (Post 7623360)
I think it was Rai who originally suggested that somewhere back but I've been digging him in recently and think he'd be great. :)

As far as the bow debate goes Tomb Raider announced the bow as Lara's main weapon in the 2009 leaked concepts. Hunger Games wasn't even hardly known back then.

I know this, but masses don't.
Once I seen an article saying Lara Croft unleashes her inner Katniss :facepalm:
I like katniss, but please no don't do this to me media :mad:

SamCactus101 26-07-16 05:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizardspock110 (Post 7623364)

Once I seen an article saying Lara Croft unleashes her inner Katniss :facepalm:
I like katniss, but please no don't do this to me media :mad:

Lol what the??? :facepalm:

Tonyrobinson 26-07-16 09:22

The Katniss and Angelina comparisons are only going to get worse from here on out. I bet Alicia feels a bit awkward everytime someone mentions Angelina. :p

Heidi_w_ 26-07-16 09:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonyrobinson (Post 7623360)
I think it was Rai who originally suggested that somewhere back but I've been digging him in recently and think he'd be great. :)

As far as the bow debate goes Tomb Raider announced the bow as Lara's main weapon in the 2009 leaked concepts. Hunger Games wasn't even hardly known back then.

Yep, TR2013 and the HG books both had their genesis at more or less the same time, so it wasn't like the new Lara was inspired by Katniss. There are just so many uses for the bow (aside from the obvious) that it makes for a worthy addition to her arsenal.

Wonder if Alicia's started archery practice yet?

Tonyrobinson 26-07-16 10:04

I am sure she'll be on top form. Worth noting that Scott Shapiro the VFX producer on this specialises in smaller budget films with larger scope and minimal CGI plus he is a great creature effect artist, I expect his interpretation of the creatures in this film will be epic. I can't wait to see the undead Himiko.

quetzalcoatl 26-07-16 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamCactus101 (Post 7623191)
How about Arrow? That guy from that TV show? And Hawkeye from The Avengers? Those two are superheroes sure but they still wield a bow and arrow in these days.

I can picture the comparisons to Hunger Games already? Not to mention Katniss has a braid too. :p

Haven't watched Arrow but I've seen all the Avenger movies; the bow and arrow are identifiable with Hawkeye's character plus he's a superhero, which is slightly different to Lara :-p I just meant she never used to have the bow and arrow and it's an odd weapon choice for a young woman in a contemporary setting - unless new Lara is an archery enthusiast! lol

shockwave_pulsar00 26-07-16 12:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by quetzalcoatl (Post 7623815)
Haven't watched Arrow but I've seen all the Avenger movies; the bow and arrow are identifiable with Hawkeye's character plus he's a superhero, which is slightly different to Lara :-p I just meant she never used to have the bow and arrow and it's an odd weapon choice for a young woman in a contemporary setting - unless new Lara is an archery enthusiast! lol

Lara was in that Sister's of Artemis archery club in college. CD confirmed that when fans asked what the logo on her travel cup meant (the one on her desk in Reboot's intro)

quetzalcoatl 26-07-16 15:20

Thanks, I didn't know about the archery club!

SamCactus101 28-07-16 05:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by quetzalcoatl (Post 7623815)
Haven't watched Arrow but I've seen all the Avenger movies; the bow and arrow are identifiable with Hawkeye's character plus he's a superhero, which is slightly different to Lara :-p I just meant she never used to have the bow and arrow and it's an odd weapon choice for a young woman in a contemporary setting - unless new Lara is an archery enthusiast! lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by quetzalcoatl (Post 7623924)
Thanks, I didn't know about the archery club!

Yep, Lara has done archery before in college but never in a situation like the one she was thrown in. The bow would be a weird contemporary weapon, even for superheroes, but since it's the first weapon she finds in the game, it kind of just stuck I suppose.

Tonyrobinson 28-07-16 11:54

Not a good source but IMDb has stated Jing Tian is Sam.

Heidi_w_ 28-07-16 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonyrobinson (Post 7625283)
Not a good source but IMDb has stated Jing Tian is Sam.

Oooo, I like her -- interesting coincidence that like Alicia, she's also a former dancer :)

She seems rather tall, though -- would be odd for Sam to tower over Lara, though it might simply be illusory...

Rai 28-07-16 12:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonyrobinson (Post 7625283)
Not a good source but IMDb has stated Jing Tian is Sam.

Where? It's not on the Tomb Raider page, nor hers.

I had to look her up, I didn't know who she is :p.

Tonyrobinson 28-07-16 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rai (Post 7625295)
Where? It's not on the Tomb Raider page, nor hers.

I had to look her up, I didn't know who she is :p.

Hmm, it was definitely there this morning. :pi:

I wonder is it legitimate, the Scott Shapiro one turned out true.

shockwave_pulsar00 28-07-16 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonyrobinson (Post 7625283)
Not a good source but IMDb has stated Jing Tian is Sam.

Just checked and looks like she was already taken off the page lol. Usually its just someone with IMDB plus trying to get their favorite actors noticed...or to be a joke. She looked ok, but she hasnt been in any English speaking roles from what I can tell and Sam has an "LA party girl" quality to her voice.

I do also think they should get someone who is partly Japanese, as Himiko and Hoshi would be atleast as well

Trenton 28-07-16 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonyrobinson (Post 7625283)
Not a good source but IMDb has stated Jing Tian is Sam.

Jing Tian? That's no Japanese name! That's Chinese! :eek:
Well, I guess this either means Hollywood doesn't give a crap and think she'll pass for Japanese among western audiences anyway or that they have changed the setting from a Japanese island to a Chinese one, including a Chinese myth etc (possibly to appeal more to the lucrative Chinese market?). :ponder:

Tonyrobinson 28-07-16 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trenton (Post 7625347)
Jing Tian? That's no Japanese name! That's Chinese! :eek:
Well, I guess this either means Hollywood doesn't give a crap and think she'll pass for Japanese among western audiences anyway or that they have changed the setting from a Japanese island to a Chinese one, including a Chinese myth etc (possibly to appeal more to the lucrative Chinese market?). :ponder:

Possibly although I doubt it's legitimate knowing IMDb, but they did get Scott Shapiro right. I guess time will tell it shouldn't be too long until filming commences. If they follow the DC slate then it'll be a sixth month shoot starting in November.

Isn't Himiko a figure in Chinese culture as well as Japanese?


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