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-   -   Dumb things people say (https://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=210928)

Cochrane 05-05-19 21:31

@Draco: What's the point of accuracy in this context? Obviously, there are cases where it's difficult to tell and where someone can make honest mistakes. But if you actually know (or are basically certain) how someone would like to be addressed, why use anything else? You know they're not going to thank you for it. “Accuracy” is hard to define in this context anyway (modern medical science recognizes transgender as a valid condition - not an illness though), but besides that, there's no benefit to using some supposedly more “accurate” label. All one would get would be smartass/rudeness points, and probably a lot of them.

(Again, not taking about things where you don’t know and are uncertain or guess wrong. Neither was the original post.)

Yeauxleaux 05-05-19 21:35

I agree and disagree

I do think many transwomen don't pass, because male secondary sex characteristics can be an absolute bitch to try reversing. However if you can still see a very clear attempt to transition gender and live as female, even if they're not quite cutting it, most people would be able to see that and recognise, ok even if this isn't a biological woman, this is clearly a transwoman. I don't think being expected to use female pronouns in that situation is really too much to ask, or difficult to do. I don't believe in calling transwomen "men" just to be a stubborn spiteful **** for no reason. That's not to say it trumps biology, that individual will always be biologically male and the distinction is important for many reasons, but socially they can be recognised as female.

However in ways I see your point. Sometimes people expect you to be mind readers and just know what their pronouns are, even when they're making no discernable effort to match the pronouns physically. As a rule, people generally are what they look like (we're not gonna pretend we don't know what common physical differences between men and women are, so don't come at me with that ****, most people are unambiguously male or female). So if you're a biological woman presenting totally as female, you're not on hormones, you're not doing any surgeries or even dressing in gender-atypical clothing, you can't have unrealistic expectations that people won't "assume your gender" and will see you as male, or some stupid attention-seeking middle gender. That's where it gets silly to me, this "I can be one thing but look like something else", no, you have to make some discernible effort to be seen as what you want to be called.

Also in many situations it doesn't even really need to be said and pointed out. I was serving on tills at the store a few weeks ago and a transwoman (I could tell) came up to the till to buy some dresses. It was only the second time I think I've ever actually spoken to one in real life, but I just tried to act as trivial and normal as I could. I could tell what the situation was, it didn't need drawing attention to when she probably just wanted to get on with her life normally.

Cochrane 05-05-19 21:44

Yeauxleaux: Maybe I didn't express myself well, because I actually fully agree with you. I was just specifically talking about the first case you mention.

Yeauxleaux 05-05-19 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochrane (Post 8084984)
Yeauxleaux: Maybe I didn't express myself well, because I actually fully agree with you. I was just specifically talking about the first case you mention.

That's ok, I was moreso addressing Draco's post but I pretty much agree with what you said too

AlexyLC 05-05-19 23:14

Thank you for explaining guys!
Guess it's the same thing if Lara was from Portugal and a brazilian actress was trying to do the accent. I understand it's frustrating for you to hear it.

DragonSlayer 06-05-19 14:11

My dad used to complain when actors from Star Trek would appear on other TV shows, specifically he would say there they go again using the same actors again for example John De Lancie aka Q or Connor Trinneer aka Commander Tucker on Star Trek Enterprise.

I told him to shut up and that just because they appeared on Star Trek doesn't mean they can't appear on other TV shows.

Draco 07-05-19 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochrane (Post 8084979)
@Draco: What's the point of accuracy in this context? Obviously, there are cases where it's difficult to tell and where someone can make honest mistakes. But if you actually know (or are basically certain) how someone would like to be addressed, why use anything else? You know they're not going to thank you for it. “Accuracy” is hard to define in this context anyway (modern medical science recognizes transgender as a valid condition - not an illness though), but besides that, there's no benefit to using some supposedly more “accurate” label. All one would get would be smartass/rudeness points, and probably a lot of them.

(Again, not taking about things where you don’t know and are uncertain or guess wrong. Neither was the original post.)

If I know, sure, but if I'm scanning a crowd, I'm not worried one bit about what box someone prefers to be pigeonholed into. If I'm describing a person, then I decribe them as they appear, not as they want to be taken to be.

DragonSlayer 17-05-19 10:16

There was a debate on Sky News this morning about whether or not there should be compulsory voting in the UK which they have in Australia.

The Australian guy taking part in the debate said that voting in Australia is compulsory, he then said that once someone has picked up their ballot paper they can choose whether or not to vote.

That's hardly compulsory voting if you are saying in one sentence that they have to vote and in the next sentence saying that they can choose to not vote if they want to.

Also I think that fining people 20 Australian dollars for not voting is a bad idea there are lots of reasons why someone didn't vote, they could simply have forgotten, they could have a hospital or dentist appointment or they may have to go to a funeral.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Australian government has hired a debt collection agency to force people who didn't or forgot to vote to pay the fine.

Admles 18-05-19 08:48

When people get moderated and say "this is a violation of my right to free speech." :vlol:

Newsflash - you don't have a right to free speech, you agreed to terms and conditions when you signed up.

Woops 18-05-19 09:42

Do people say that frequently? -no
If someone else was to say something this specific it'd be "toxic" and the post would be deleted. Correct?

"you don't have a right to free speech"
I don't even want to say anything


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