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-   -   Dumb things people say (https://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=210928)

Caesum 20-05-19 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackali (Post 8090721)
If you think a post breaks the rules, it's not your responsibility to publicly call out the poster, rather you should make use of the report system. My intervention in this thread has only come about because several members such as yours think it's a good idea to gang up on someone you don't like. If you think a post a member makes breaks the rules, report it. Same as with moderators.

I reported this post days ago. Seems like it didn't do much good if we have this conversation. :)

Mani_Man 20-05-19 09:01

Wait, do we call out the mods here...god damn it im already too late again for that.
Now i dont even have the same fire to turn up the heat on the subpar moderation work around here.

What i will say however is that the mods kind of double standard is a neccessary for the forum to surive.
Toxic activity is activity, getting rid of this is most likely ending the forum.

There is a good reason that 500 guests or so are online every day but less than 100 people post on a daily base.
So the mods need to take actions that protect the sure activity...even if its toxic(as seen in the Tomb Raider section).

Thats all i have, i had more but eh...dont have the same passion for more.

Woops 20-05-19 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackali (Post 8090721)
If you want to look at the nature of this thread, you might notice that it could be taken in a way that everyone who has posted in here has shaded someone by making a post about something someone else has said. The idea of this thread was not to do that, and it's a bit of a joke thread. If you really think that one person's comment is so much worse than everyone else's, I think that says a lot more about you than it does anyone else. But that's just the way I see it Now, if you can agree that everything here could be taken in a bad way, should we close the thread? If it's really just a bunch of people shading others? Or perhaps is there a chance that this thread isn't meant to be taken wholly seriously?

As far as ganging up on people, at least 5 different members, none of whom were targeted, have come into this thread and made some pretty rude comments about one other member (moderator or otherwise). Is that not ganging up?
.

Shading a situation that has happened irl is way different than a moderator shading members. And no, it doesn't say more about me if that person is a moderator. There's a difference between a member shading another member (which gets handled by moderators fairly quickly, which is nice) and a moderator shading a member. And to continue off your last post, this particular post of Admles was posted as a moderator since he is mentioning something that clearly has happened behind the scenes. If he had shaded, say something he heard on the bus then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

And I apologize if anything I said in this discussion came off as an insult, nothing was meant that way. But I can't speak for anyone else. If someone was rude it's not an excuse to shut the whole discussion down. In my opinion, at least.

Why would you want to close this thread???? The only member who's abused it lately without being handled is Admles. Your moderator. It's clearly made people upset and is outright ridiculous saying both people don't have a right to free speech and that the forum's terms and conditions don't warrant free speech for us members. Not to mention half his other old posts in here that mock simple things people suggest to make the forums better. If I remember correctly there's a post of his mocking people who think members should be able to create their own polls. While I'm sure Justin has his reasons to keep polls controlled by mods (which I am okay with, btw.) Shading members who want otherwise in a thread of this nature is not proper moderator behaviour.

I don't see that as ganging up. No. A moderator has posted something extremely controversial and we as members are upset about and are expressing that. Be it one or 10 members we all have different opinions on the matter. And he's clearly not "defense less" (for the lack of a better word) because I'm quoting you, not him.

Ikas90 20-05-19 10:25

Wow, people are civil rights experts on this forum, who would have thought.

Maybe the lot of you need to be insulted and triggered to the fullest extent, the amount of whingers on this forum is staggeringly unbelievable.

jackali 20-05-19 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caesum (Post 8090722)
I reported this post days ago. Seems like it didn't do much good if we have this conversation. :)

If you reported a post and no action was taken, then action wasn't deemed necessary. That doesn't mean you take the opportunity to bring up your issues in another way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woops (Post 8090730)
Shading a situation that has happened irl is way different than a moderator shading members. And no, it doesn't say more about me if that person is a moderator. There's a difference between a member shading another member (which gets handled by moderators fairly quickly, which is nice) and a moderator shading a member. And to continue off your last post, this particular post of Admles was posted as a moderator since he is mentioning something that clearly has happened behind the scenes. If he had shaded, say something he heard on the bus then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

And I apologize if anything I said in this discussion came off as an insult, nothing was meant that way. But I can't speak for anyone else. If someone was rude it's not an excuse to shut the whole discussion down. In my opinion, at least.

Why would you want to close this thread???? The only member who's abused it lately without being handled is Admles. Your moderator. It's clearly made people upset and is outright ridiculous saying both people don't have a right to free speech and that the forum's terms and conditions don't warrant free speech for us members. Not to mention half his other old posts in here that mock simple things people suggest to make the forums better. If I remember correctly there's a post of his mocking people who think members should be able to create their own polls. While I'm sure Justin has his reasons to keep polls controlled by mods (which I am okay with, btw.) Shading members who want otherwise in a thread of this nature is not proper moderator behaviour.

I don't see that as ganging up. No. A moderator has posted something extremely controversial and we as members are upset about and are expressing that. Be it one or 10 members we all have different opinions on the matter. And he's clearly not "defense less" (for the lack of a better word) because I'm quoting you, not him.

It's not really all that different, and many posts in here have been directly related to other posts and events that have happened on the forum. We're only having this conversation because someone felt like it was directed towards them. A lot of things happen across the forums that not all members see. That doesn't mean it's behind the scenes, it just means that not everyone looks in every place for every event all of the time.

The reason we're having a discussion is because I'm trying to not shut down discussion. Where did you get the idea that I want it closed? I'm saying that I think that post was in the vein of the thread. If it's inappropriate, then so too is the entire thread.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but it is right. All membership on here, including that of the moderation team, is permitted by Justin. You don't have rights here outside of what the T&C allows. I don't have rights here outside of what the T&C allows. None of us have any rights here.

I'll admit that there are times when the moderation team aren't as tactful as they perhaps could be, myself included. That doesn't mean we aren't people. When we get the same comments about changes to the forums again and again, we're going to get tired of them. Do we always respond perfectly? No. Do we get called out on it by other mods? Absolutely. Just because you don't always see it happen, doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

I'm this case, I don't think his post warrants any action, so I'm not going to say it does.

It's definitely ganging up if a few members otherwise uninvolved with the conversation until that point come in and have a go at one member, moderator or otherwise.

I don't believe it was extremely controversial, or really controversial at all. And if a handful of members have ganged up on one other, a handful is just that. There's nothing extreme about his comments or the reaction to it. There is no extreme controversy.

Not sure who you're quoting but I can't find where I said that.

Woops 20-05-19 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackali (Post 8090760)
It's not really all that different, and many posts in here have been directly related to other posts and events that have happened on the forum. We're only having this conversation because someone felt like it was directed towards them. A lot of things happen across the forums that not all members see. That doesn't mean it's behind the scenes, it just means that not everyone looks in every place for every event all of the time.

The reason we're having a discussion is because I'm trying to not shut down discussion. Where did you get the idea that I want it closed? I'm saying that I think that post was in the vein of the thread. If it's inappropriate, then so too is the entire thread.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but it is right. All membership on here, including that of the moderation team, is permitted by Justin. You don't have rights here outside of what the T&C allows. I don't have rights here outside of what the T&C allows. None of us have any rights here.

I'll admit that there are times when the moderation team aren't as tactful as they perhaps could be, myself included. That doesn't mean we aren't people. When we get the same comments about changes to the forums again and again, we're going to get tired of them. Do we always respond perfectly? No. Do we get called out on it by other mods? Absolutely. Just because you don't always see it happen, doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

I'm this case, I don't think his post warrants any action, so I'm not going to say it does.

It's definitely ganging up if a few members otherwise uninvolved with the conversation until that point come in and have a go at one member, moderator or otherwise.

I don't believe it was extremely controversial, or really controversial at all. And if a handful of members have ganged up on one other, a handful is just that. There's nothing extreme about his comments or the reaction to it. There is no extreme controversy.

Not sure who you're quoting but I can't find where I said that.


I disagree, I'm only discussing this because a moderator is mocking something people say after actions taken against them which is why I assumed it happened behind the scenes. Gotta ask though did it really not happen behind the scenes because I'd like to see where it happened and I'll be sorry for starting this and I'll walk out.

I'm sorry I must've misunderstood the "closing the thread" part in your original post then, I apologize.

The terms and condition tell you what you shouldn't do. Not what you should do. The sane assumption is "you can say anything you want without breaking the rules"- that's freedom of speech. And I said earlier I'm not viewing any of this from a "human rights" scope, I'm viewing it from basic principles of an online forum. The rules are here to guide us on what we shouldn't be doing. And saying they take away one's freedom of speech is absurd.

I don't really have anything against the moderation team and I respect all of you a lot for taking the time to make the community bigger, and I understand that we're all human beings and we all can make mistakes. But as moderators are supposed to be setting a role model for members to follow by not breaking the rules OR spreading toxicity. Admles failed in that department in my opinion. Again I have nothing against Admles or anyone nor any moderation action he took. But mocking what people say to him trying to defend themselves? AND saying we can't have freedom of speech!

I definitely don't see it as ganging up because he is someone of power and like I said just now is supposed to be setting a role model and not spread toxicity. If members are upset that someone who punishes people for doing bad, did something bad then everyone should be allowed to speak up. Involved or not. He involved all of us when mocking it publicly that way. It could be any of us mocked by him next if action isn't taken. And if anyone thinks we deserve to get mocked because we broke a rule and were banned for it (I'm not saying you are, but just saying in general) then they're dead wrong and shouldn't be in charge of anyone.


And what I meant with it not being the first time:
https://www.tombraiderforums.com/sho...&postcount=377
https://www.tombraiderforums.com/sho...&postcount=345
https://www.tombraiderforums.com/sho...&postcount=355

I didn't really wanna go dig up posts but... yea.
All these are simple requests and I believe were made in the forum features requests thread. Yet instead of giving a proper answer there (https://www.tombraiderforums.com/sho...postcount=1256 really?) (or even a No.) it's mocked here. That's wrong.

jackali 20-05-19 12:06

See, the thing that's now becoming apparent is that you think you should be treating moderators differently. Why is that? I've already stated that when you see something that you think breaks the rules, report it. If you have an issue generally with a particular moderator (which you claim you don't, and then go and dig through old posts specifically relating to that moderator), and you don't feel like you can send a PM to that moderator, send one to another moderator explaining your concerns. Again, if no action is deemed necessary then it won't be taken. If action is deemed necessary then it will be taken. If you want us to treat you with the respect you think you deserve, why then are we undeserving of the same level of respect when you think we've erred? Would you rather be publicly called out on everything instead of having an issue dealt with privately?

I'm not actually sure which person said that recently, so if it's happened somewhere along the line then it's likely it didn't happen behind the scenes - I'm more likely to see things behind the scenes than I am to see something across the wider forum (I simply don't have the time to check every post in every thread). If I'm wrong and it did happen behind the scenes, then I'm not really sure that changes much. If it happened recently behind the scenes, and it wasn't anything to do with you, what's your problem? :confused:

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my original post. Misunderstandings can easily happen - which is why I'm still happy to engage in this dialogue. We don't have the same understanding of the situation regarding this post. That's natural, but having this dialogue is a good way to try to get onto the same page.

I think you're misunderstanding the concept of freedom of speech. In the real world, it works in a way that you're free to say anything you want, but you're also open to the consequences of that. If, for example, you threaten someone else, you are technically allowed to say it. No one is really able stop you from actually voicing it. You have freedom of speech. If you say something bad, or stupid, you can absolutely expect to be called out on it. And if you say something that could be dangerous, or breaks a rule, you can expect consequences. Freedom of speech is something that's permitted in public settings. In private, there are any number of reasons where your freedom of speech will be revoked. Signing an NDA is a real-world example of this. Joining a private forum with open membership is an internet example. You become subject to the rules as set forth by the private forum - you are not free to act or speak exactly as you might wish. We're usually pretty lenient when it comes to this, but it should be clear that you do not have freedom of speech here. We're just not going to police everything everyone says unless it does seem to go against the rules in some way.

In this regard, as I've said more than once, it's fine if a member disagrees with a moderator. You're welcome to call them out on something if you think they've said something bad. But if the way you do it isn't good either, you're not exactly helping your case. Again, there are appropriate ways of doing this. Ganging up on someone (which we'll have to agree to disagree on that - but this definitely was (a situation where a group of people come together against one person (or where 5 members come and air their grievances against one member, moderator or otherwise)) is not an acceptable way.

I'm sorry, but I must have missed a memo about moderators needing to be a role model for the other members. Yes, you're right, it definitely helps if a moderator is a role model for other members. I wasn't told that I was meant to be one when I was asked to join the team though.

I don't think anyone thinks that anyone deserves to get mocked for breaking a rule and getting banned for it. Can't you see how breaking a rule and getting banned for it, then coming back and disputing that ban by trying to circumvent the rule with something that doesn't exist seems a little silly? Does anyone deserve to get mocked? No. But equally, does anyone deserve to be free from mocking? If you think that's the case, you might have a wider issue to raise with... pretty much every person in the world from school-age upwards.

I'm not going to say anything further about past instances other than this: If you didn't want to dig up old posts, why did you?

Woops 20-05-19 12:34

Alright then, agreed. :tmb:

Caesum 20-05-19 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackali (Post 8090760)
If you reported a post and no action was taken, then action wasn't deemed necessary. That doesn't mean you take the opportunity to bring up your issues in another way.

Only shows how this place is full of double standards then if you find that post okay and still deny another possibility even though multiple people already said that Admles' post (actually, posts) are rude and unrespectful towards members without special privileges. That's all from me now.

TombHackR 25-05-19 15:14

I can’t comprehend why people can not grasp this concept.

When you sign up for the forum, all of your posts here are in control of Justin. There’s no such thing as free speech on this forum, this is Justin’s forum and he has every right to censor as much as he wishes. Obviously this forum would be extremely unpopular if people started receiving bans for the ‘wrong opinions’, but the bottom line is… this is entirely possible and it is no violation of free speech.

From what I have seen in the past 6 years, I personally think there is nothing wrong with Admles’ work and I do not personally think there’s anything disrespectful in particular about the posts of his quoted above.

If you report a post and nothing gets done about it, deal with it. If the moderators believe the content is acceptable then you can not do anything about it, other than leave this forum.


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