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-   -   TR5 No Scratch/Minimal Damage Playthrough (https://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=222852)

fallenangle 24-05-19 12:10

TR5 No Scratch/Minimal Damage Playthrough
 
Decided I'm in the mood to do the one classic TR I've not tried in full 'no scratch' or better called minimal damage run.

I've done several no medi-pack runs and those were tough enough, particularly the Red Alert/13th Floor etc levels so I'm not expecting it to be easy.

Already hit the first problem area in Rome - the bats which come out of the wall when you pull the first mouth plaque sculpture lever. If you jump straight up immediately you'll receive no damage but it seems that on landing LC will get nibbled and there is no room or time to backflip/tumble. If you keep just jumping straight up the bats always eventually damage
LC and stay around for longer too.

Any ideas?

Woops 24-05-19 12:50

Tried rolling?

tomee 24-05-19 17:53

My memory of TRC is a bit rusty. Are you talking about this flock of bats?



There was a big TRC challenge thread here on TRF several years ago, I dug this video from there. I remember many people having issues with this, but it's not impossible. You might want to skim through that thread for tips, tricks and tutorials, but please do not post in it as it is very old.

Maverin 24-05-19 22:21

You can also use the save/load trick which freezes them for like a second, giving you more time to outrun them :)

fallenangle 25-05-19 12:30

It is actually the first bat cloud I'm talking about. It is very close to the start where you open the gate from another mask/switch and then go there. When you operate the second switch a block comes out of the wall further back allowing you to climb up to the first floor apartments. You can not avoid, by legitimate means, having to do that as you need a key from there to enter the next area.

The bats actually come out from the bottom of the mask/switch which is why jumping up initially avoids damage. But the moment LC lands she gets bitten. As said you can not jump/backflip or jump/backflip/tumble because the gate you opened only rises a certain amount and doing either means you hit it and fall back down.

I tried just tumbling but unless there is some inconsistency LC still appears always to take damage. I also tried another technique that I think worked in some places in the earlier games, just crouching. But again - no luck as is shown in the YT video below, the relevant section is at about 12.00mins:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQIPneEVeK0

As you can see merely crouching/backing out still results in damage.

That other ^^ YT video of the second(?) bat cloud avoidance looks to me to be very much what I did there on my previous no medipack runs. Useful to be reminded of that though.

tomee 25-05-19 16:35

If backflip is completely off the table (it's been a while I played and I can't tell the geometry from the video), then you can try "Y turn". Hopping back and holding left (or right), then holding forward and right (or left) and also sprint as soon as possible. It IS possible to get out from there with no damage as others have done it in the thread I linked above. It just needs to be figured out how.:p

fallenangle 26-05-19 00:40

Thanks, I had a more detailed look at that thread and the first set of bats was clearly a big sticking point for 'no scratch' but Soul, who was having the same problem, posted later ^ that solution too.

https://www.tombraiderforums.com/sho...9&postcount=24

I might try running back into the training area because in my best attempt yet I found the bats follow her for a very long time whatever open street route taken to sprint away.

So I guess a little more perseverance is needed although by the sound of it later on in one case damage avoidance is even harder.

EDIT1

Just done it, yay!

The idea of running back to the training area is a no go because when sprinting she does not like that sharp right into the doorway and the bats follow her anyway.

The method I used to get out of the passage was not quite the same as suggested:-

1). Pull the switch and before that is finished press and hold Back to make LC hop back (straight) once as soon as the switch animation ends. That hop back means any jump will not hit the overhanging gate.

2). Still holding Back (actually may require a fast release and re-press) immediately press Jump quickly followed by Tumble so she back flips and twists in mid-air to face the way out of the passage.

3). Now 'simply' Sprint into the next area and get the angle correct so she turns left towards the fountain without catching on the right wall.

4). Keep Sprinting until the bats disappear.

I've repeated it and the method works every time if you get the back flip timing and twist part perfect.

EDIT 2

Also did the two early Larson encounters before the first tightrope walk too.

The first part is obviously triggered by crossing the first square sets in the courtyard. So I used a technique which worked well for some gun turrets in TR4: a sprinting swan dive, basically a forward tumble but unlike the Sprint+Tumble which ends up static or crouched you can continuing running. Get the run/dive angle right and his first shot won't hit LC and you'll have enough time, if you're lucky, to sprint under the columns on the other side of the courtyard.

Second part requires precise positioning but you can shoot Larson without him ever returning fire.

When you come around the corner and first see the tightrope there is a small slope up the passageway. Stop there and edge forwards to the middle of a particular square tile about halfway up the slope. Side step into the wall on your left as far as possible and you should be able to see Larson on the opposite side of the courtyard.

Now if you fire your pistols you won't get any lock and you''ll see the shots hit the area just before the tightrope but in line with Larson. You need more height so get LC to jump straight up and keep firing and you'll see Larson getting hit but not returning fire.

The important thing is not to move forward out of the 'safe' tile or LC will be shot.

As most here will know if you jump LC straight up she will actually move forward each time. So watch your position and adjust it back then start shooting again until Larson goes.

EDIT3

I thought I'd finished the Rome successfully 'no scratch' but after I started Trajan's markets I realised that my last save in Rome showed I had actually received the minutest sliver of damage and had not noticed. 'Luckily' I had not over-written the Rome saves and it was from that second bunch of bats (as shown in that YT video).

It look me at least another dozen goes to complete that 100% undamaged. My feelings are it is all down to luck because I pretty much repeated exactly what I'd done on each previous attempt starting from a saved VERY precisely positioned tumble turn.

The technique seems to be, something you can see in that video, a change in direction just before the jump across the passageway, making it more diagonal to the left. Glancing off the wall there actually straightens up the jump/landing allowing you to jump immediately on landing to the lower plinth if you get the angle correct. But sometimes you get bitten in mid-air during that second jump, sometimes not. It was definitely there I'd received that sliver of damage.

Anyway, that level now perfectly completed although I will say the final guard dog in the previously locked room with the 2nd or 3rd Secret was a bit of an effort to deal with undamaged too.

Almost completed Trajan's markets now too - beating the animated statue using just the pistols was a tough job.

BTW the walkthroughs (at least Stellas) is wrong, the raised platform in front of the window is not a safe position, whether crouched or standing. Maybe if you can get up there with the enemy further away he can not hit LC with the 'plasma' bolts but if he is close to the platform he does still use and hits her with them.

fallenangle 29-05-19 11:58

Finished all the Rome and Russian levels 'no scratch' and, apart from the gunmen on the submarine who were a bit of a pain, I found the Russian sub levels easier than I expected.

Just started Ireland and **** ** more damned, unkillable bats to deal with. Forgotten about them from my last (no medipack) run which was some time ago but they really do suck a lot of the fun out of this sort of challenge.

Maverin 30-05-19 07:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by fallenangle (Post 8094102)
Just started Ireland and **** ** more damned, unkillable bats to deal with. Forgotten about them from my last (no medipack) run which was some time ago but they really do suck a lot of the fun out of this sort of challenge.

Ireland is without doubt a real challenge to finish no scratch. The bats are a nightmare. Especially those around the mill. Trial and error is the only way out, and a few YouTube videos from Tomee ;)

The VCI levels can be really challenging as well so brace yourself.

fallenangle 30-05-19 12:12

The bats in the first secret cave are becoming more than a bit tiresome. I was pretty sure I'd done it on one attempt, I did not see the health bar appearing and as there is no easy way of checking that I reloaded and just like the last ones in Rome after I'd thought I done it there the first time there was actually the thinnest bit of health missing. :)

The YT videos are useful - they show there are at least two techniques that work, problem is I was using them both before even seeing that they could be successful but without the same luck.

The bats are random that is the problem - you can repeat exactly what you did before, timing wise and about as pixel perfectly as a human can do. One attempt you'll get that minimal damage - the next 5% or more.

It doesn't help that they cheat too flying through solid rock ie. they use the shortest route possible to get to LC wherever she is.

BTW I came across an interesting bug I hadn't read about or seen mentioned.

At that location if you get in the correct start position on the triangular rock platform on the same level opposite and which roughly faces the bat cave try a forward jump directly towards the angled area at the bottom 'lip' of the cave entrance.

The trick is to use and hold Action throughout the jump so LC flies through the air with her arms outstretched. If the positioning is correct she'll glitch on that edge and if you then press Tumble she'll suddenly end up in the cave to the right of where she was glitching.

It is some sort of variation on the corner bug but I've not seen anything like it before. I'd bet some others here have.

I tried to use it to get by the bats unscratched but she's facing the wrong direction and if you tumble turn she gets stuck under the overhang, a side jump takes landing damage or catches the roof near the entrance and a backflip/twist jump is too slow.

Woops 30-05-19 13:32

Can you record a video of that glitch? I'd be interested to see it.
Also, when you say "Tumble" you mean roll? Thanks.

fallenangle 30-05-19 16:31

Tumble/Roll - same thing yes. I tend to call it a tumble when used during a jump.

Sorry I have no means of recording it and even if I could I do not subscribe to any file/picture sharing web sites.

It has always surprised me that for a forum like this we can't post pictures here directly for purposes like this.

The glitch should* be reproducible from my description. If you jump with the action button press throughout you'll know if the position is correct because LC will stick on the edge, flickering in the jump/arms outstretched pose. You press roll and she ends up in the cave.

*Unfortunately I overwrote the save of the jump position where I could get this to happen every time. I've just tried to find that again and can't.

I have found that it is possible to jump from there to grab the edge which I thought it might be but had not managed. There is a precise position on the ground where you can do that too.

Pulling up into the cave either way triggers the bats but there is no use to this in avoiding them as the pull up animation takes too long. LC is often nibbled before she is even fully standing. :(

EDIT

Still can't find that start position for the jump which does what I described. I've found several places where you can bounce her off the bottom edge of the cave. This triggers the bats in the same way but I have not been able to exploit that successfully to avoid bat damage a you end up facing the cave and even with an instant side jump it is random whether you get bitten or not

I've found a sort of cheat which might prove to be an alternative successful solution: get LC to the very small 'safe' area at edge inside the cave entrance. Facing to the left along the line of the edge jump straight up; each time it edges LC forwards towards the angled join between the sloped area in front and the triangular flatter area she's standing on. If the angle is right when you get to that join she'll jump up and then slip straight down below the entrance to the cave.

The useful thing is that she is now half embedded in the rock wall on her right. You can trigger the bats here by going into crouch but this also ejects her from the wall, annoyingly, slightly backwards. But it does give you marginally more time to start your jump and run/sprint ahead of the bats.

I still have not managed it but I have, once, avoided all damage until the sprint part ended when one lone bat decided to go back for a final nibble. I was not pleased.

fallenangle 02-06-19 01:46

I'm totally bored trying to get past the bats in The Gallows Tree unscathed. It is just random as the bats behave differently each time. If that makes the cave tough then the monkey swing passageway is nightmare hard. I'm sure it is possible but after probably two dozen attempts waiting for the game to give me the chance it had stopped giving me any entertainment value at all.

I've accepted the best minimum damage I could manage in each area and moved onto the next level. Did that no scratch, no real problem although, again, the bats annoy as they can apparently not just fly through sold rock but also through water as well.

tomee 02-06-19 13:01

Just 2 dozen attemps? :p
Should you attempt TR2 no scratch in the future, beware of the mighty goldfish in Temple of Xian. I was stuck on this level for nearly 2 weeks, because I was also doing pistols only. It was madness. I just couldn't get it right for so long despite KNOWING it was possible to avoid it.

Good luck with the VCI levels. I feel Escape with the Iris especially is going to be a challenge.

fallenangle 02-06-19 16:26

Already done all the other TRs no scratch including TR2. That's pistols or default weapon only and all secrets too. I try for all pickups but I'm sure I miss some and also do not necessarily go for all kills. I always leave the first monkey in TR3 alive and there were Raptors in TR3 I simply did not trigger. Same sort of thing for the other games too. In this game I left the two snipers at the sub base alive too.

This TR5 run will complete my set but it is by far the most frustrating one trying to do it without damage thanks to those bats.

That TR2:ToX fish one was indeed difficult but I found that if I swum LC around the locked room in a certain way the fish would get stuck in the scenery trying to take the direct route to nibble her. It proved just long enough to be able to complete the task and get out undamaged. The fish I had trouble with in TR2 were the sharks and barracuda in one of the Maria Doria levels where you have to swim outside the shipwreck to get a secret and, I think, a key or other pickup.

In TR5 they just repeat the bat clouds too many times; it is a cheap device and another indicator the designers had run out of good ideas. There was one bat encounter in Labyrinth I was OK with because there is a solution which requires understanding of the level geography and how to use LC's skill set to avoid them. But even then you still have deal with the fact they will attack her in deep-ish water and there's that uncontrollable randomness too.

Those are the reasons I couldn't be bothered to try more than a dozen times with the two sets of bats in the Old Mill level, particularly the one which appears when you open the timed door. The camera position means you're attacked blind and even if you run/sprint down the slope they will still attack her in the water. I'm sure it is doable but by that stage I'd had more than my fill of cheap, invincible bats. :(


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