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-   -   Original TR theme intended to feature in Shadow? (https://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=222972)

Gemma Darkmoon 16-06-19 15:09

Original TR theme intended to feature in Shadow?
 
Hi guys. I have heard a credible leak which has been circulating so thought I would share this info on here. We know many have asked for the TR theme back well some of the tracks from Tomb Raider Suite were apparently at one stage supposed to be key tracks in Shadow. Let have a look at this info then.

~ The main theme of Shadow was to include the original TR motif and contained a section from what is now a track TRS called 'in the blood'.

~ The credits were to feature a second new reworking (There is a second reworking called precious moments featured in TRS)

~ A early section of the game where animals would attack in an arena from various entry points was to feature a reworked boss theme from the original game. (this sounds like the leopard den which also seems to fit)

~ All these inclusions were apparently scrapped after a disagreement between CD/EM and Nathan McCree over issues around money and rights agreements and the themes were never used.

The info appears pretty credible and this is just a desperate shame all round. What do you guys think? Do you it could be genuine and if so you what do think to the fact that it never came off? I am so disappointed in both parties for not managing to make this happen.

MelikeLara 16-06-19 15:14

If this is true, I'm saddened to hear it came down to a disagreement, when it would have been a massive deal to the fans.

Gh0stBlade 16-06-19 15:51

This is the stupidest thing I've heard all day.

Legends 16-06-19 16:02

[FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=4][COLOR=#003F7E][I]No, and I'm glad it wasn't in Shadow. It doesn't belong there.[/I][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

Maverin 16-06-19 16:06

I don't know what to think of this to be honest. I'm still very happy with how the soundtrack turned out to be. I just hope this won't cause newfound anger around here. :facepalm:

Portugalraider 16-06-19 16:19

I'd assume the disagreements might be more from the part of SE than CD/EM though.

It is one of the major compromises of the industry: the rights for any artistic work done during game development (be it music, concept art, whatever) generally belongs to whoever has the rights to the franchise (this case SE).

It can be easily assumed that it came from SE wanting to use the TRS tracks free of charge, probably because they let Nathan use the tracks for the TRS at no cost (I think this was confirmed by Nathan, but correct me if I'm wrong), while Nathan rightfully wanting compensation for what it was his work.

Now, the original motifs belong to SE, but this rumour says that they were using the TRS tracks themselves, which belong to Nathan, not the original motifs (like the LAU games used for example). But Nathan's work in the end uses compositions that, while created by him, do not belong to him. I can see how a copywrite nightmare this would probably be to use in the games, and it's sad an agreement could be made. Especially since they could still incorporate the motifs into the games, even if not the work done in TRS.

But at the same time, SotTR's soundtrack is one of the franchise's best, and huge leap compared to TReboot and RotTR's. Classic themes or not, it is a great soundtrack.

NoahCrofRaider 16-06-19 16:34

If that is true, I would be very sad to hear that got cut, but I also wouldn’t be surprised with some other cut classic things in Shadow.

Like Maverin though, I’m not [I]upset[/I] since Shadow’s soundtrack as it is, is phenomenal and one of the best ones in the past ten or fifteen years.

AntRaidsTombs 16-06-19 16:48

Oh gosh, it’s about to be WWIII in this thread lol

mandylane 16-06-19 16:54

well i only noticed one thing when playing shadow yesterday

music has become better. but thats all i can say for now.

TrustyBow 16-06-19 16:55

[QUOTE=mandylane;8100950]
music has become better. but thats all i can say for now.[/QUOTE]

Tell us more :mis:

mandylane 16-06-19 16:57

[QUOTE=TrustyBow;8100953]Tell us more :mis:[/QUOTE]

tell you more? i think the weapon sounds and laras voice finally sound correct on my 5.1 surrouns thx certified system. it already did in headphones..

Lara_Fan1 16-06-19 17:04

The classic themes would fit if they altered them perfectly.

I mean look at this trailer for Shadow;

[youtube]e0ljxwoq0ng[/youtube]

If you skip to 28 seconds they use the classic theme and it’s amazing, at first I thought I was mishearing it but after listening to it constantly, it IS the classic theme.

mandylane 16-06-19 17:09

oh well yea it sounds good.

probably you know im a musician composer so i also wrote some inspired music tracks for shadow. for fun. wanted to know myself how good i am at this.

johnanonymouz 16-06-19 17:51

[QUOTE=Lara_Fan1;8100958]The classic themes would fit if they altered them perfectly.[/QUOTE]

thanks for reminding me of this excellent trailer

Cat Woman 16-06-19 17:56

[QUOTE=johnanonymouz;8100975]thanks for reminding me of this excellent trailer[/QUOTE]

I enjoyed reminiscing the trailer too. Thanks ;)

JsotoTRSaga 16-06-19 18:52

This is massively disappointing.

Yeauxleaux 16-06-19 19:43

[FONT="Times New Roman"][SIZE="4"][COLOR="Purple"][I]In the main theme there's a part that already sounds like a heavily altered take on the classic theme and I was happy with that.

I can't say I'm that bothered about this. I actually think good for Nathan tbh.[/I][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

Gian Carlo 17-06-19 02:08

Only a fool would believe in this “credible” source

Gimme a break

SoraSakai 17-06-19 02:47

Your credible source is a stupid idiot.

Melonie Tomb Raider 17-06-19 03:17

This would not surprise me one bit, it lines up with everything many of us have been saying around here.

The higher ups knock down all attempts to bring classic Lara or Tomb Raider into the franchise whatsoever. It's absurd.

I still think SOTTR had one of the best soundtracks in TR history though, so no shade in that regard.

Ellioft 17-06-19 06:00

I remember to have heard a glimpse of the theme in the Monkey God tomb at least the 3 first notes.

mizuno_suisei 17-06-19 09:02

This is...ridiculous, and makes no sense

SE have stated numerous times that references to the original TR will be kept to a minimum due to the fact it is a reboot. As far as I'm aware even the TR Suite was lucky to go ahead anyway due to licensing. They dont want to loosen it up TR is too good a cash cow.

Not having a go at you! I just think your source has a very vivid imagination :vlol:

SoraSakai 17-06-19 09:15

Their source doesn’t exist. They’re talking out their bum bum.

NoahCrofRaider 17-06-19 13:04

[QUOTE=SoraSakai;8101141]Their source doesn’t exist. They’re talking out their bum bum.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps, but it also wouldn’t be too far-fetched to be true. Sometime after Rise, I remember Nathan talking to Meagan about composing music for a reboot game, so the thought of that happening at one point is totally possible.

TrustyBow 17-06-19 13:08

[QUOTE=NoahCrofRaider;8101196]Perhaps, but it also wouldn’t be too far-fetched to be true. Sometime after Rise, I remember Nathan talking to Meagan about composing music for a reboot game, so the thought of that happening at one point is totally possible.[/QUOTE]

Really? That'd be awesome. I actually wouldn't mind if he just came back to do the sound design.

NoahCrofRaider 17-06-19 13:13

[QUOTE=TrustyBow;8101197]Really? That'd be awesome. I actually wouldn't mind if he just came back to do the sound design.[/QUOTE]

Funny enough, they were talking about it for a [I]fourth[/I] reboot game in the trilogy.

...or it was just a typo, and they were only talking about it for Shadow.

Legends 17-06-19 13:22

[QUOTE=TrustyBow;8101197]Really? That'd be awesome. I actually wouldn't mind if he just came back to do the sound design.[/QUOTE]

[FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=4][COLOR=#003F7E][I]If he came back the music would probably be perfect, or at least really good. If they ever bring him back I hope they're done with the reboot. [/I][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

Gemma Darkmoon 17-06-19 13:27

[QUOTE=mizuno_suisei;8101138]This is...ridiculous, and makes no sense
[/QUOTE]

I know it's ridiculous and sometimes the truth is crazier than the fiction. To hear it got this close is something that is all the more a kick in the stomach. Nathan should have jumped at this but who knows what conditions there were.

The contract at the devs was apparently pretty annoyed at the way issues over music and TRS were being portrayed. Many here won't believe it but I am not just going to post some nonsense rumour. If you don't believe then I don't blame you because I probably would be the same. I don't want this to go so far that it could land people in trouble or jeopardise a future deal between the parties. Is up to you guys to decide if to trust it.

biscuits 17-06-19 13:28

I heard a few notes of the classic theme in some of the tracks.

Portugalraider 17-06-19 13:28

Having Nathan back would be great for a new game, but then again Brian did such a wonderful job in SotTR that would be a shame to lose him.

A collaboration between the two, perhaps? :p

NoahCrofRaider 17-06-19 13:34

[QUOTE=Portugalraider;8101212]Having Nathan back would be great for a new game, but then again Brian did such a wonderful job in SotTR that would be a shame to lose him.

A collaboration between the two, perhaps? :p[/QUOTE]

Honestly as great as Nathan is, I would have been fine if Brian just had the permission to use the classic motifs and went ahead with it.

As great as Nathan is, I’d personally love to see Brian be given another go at composing music for the next game.

mandylane 17-06-19 14:34

more female characters please. new.

i know in paititi and kuwak yaku and san juan there is random NPCs

but yeah i would like to see something beautiful as lara herself.

maybe she has a sister or something?:confused:

LaraCablara 17-06-19 14:48

[QUOTE=Gian Carlo;8101094]Only a fool would believe in this “credible” source

Gimme a break[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=SoraSakai;8101100]Your credible source is a stupid idiot.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Gh0stBlade;8100923]This is the stupidest thing I've heard all day.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Legends;8100929][FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=4][COLOR=#003F7E][I]No, and I'm glad it wasn't in Shadow. It doesn't belong there.[/I][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]

You all are so nasty like geez :p

Portugalraider 17-06-19 17:05

[QUOTE=NoahCrofRaider;8101216]Honestly as great as Nathan is, I would have been fine if Brian just had the permission to use the classic motifs and went ahead with it.

As great as Nathan is, I’d personally love to see Brian be given another go at composing music for the next game.[/QUOTE]

Oh, I agree. Brian is definitely a keeper for the next game, and would most definitely do a great job on his own, old themes or not.

But a nice, little collaboration wouldn't hurt anyone either ;)

josh2l 17-06-19 17:32

[QUOTE=Lara_Fan1;8100958]The classic themes would fit if they altered them perfectly.

I mean look at this trailer for Shadow;

[youtube]e0ljxwoq0ng[/youtube]

If you skip to 28 seconds they use the classic theme and it’s amazing, at first I thought I was mishearing it but after listening to it constantly, it IS the classic theme.[/QUOTE]

You’re totally right!
Though I’m wondering if it’s just coincidence, honestly. The four notes aren’t THAT distinct. But every time i hear them in any music, I love it.

Ellioft 17-06-19 19:36

Sorry to bother everyone but go on the topic Tomb Raider Suite an apology (on the general thread) that's important.

Portugalraider 17-06-19 20:36

[QUOTE=Ellioft;8101362]Sorry to bother everyone but go on the topic Tomb Raider Suite an apology (on the general thread) that's important.[/QUOTE]

And just like that I hope Nathan doesn't touch anything Tomb Raider related at all. Nor anything I remotely enjoy

SoraSakai 17-06-19 20:54

Even if this were true (it isn’t), but even if it were (which it’s not), in what way would this improve any issues with Shadow at all?

Are we all really that nostalgia-thirsty that a simple theme song would fix problems with the game?

It’s not like any of the narrative issues, gameplay flaws, and lack of true payoff would at all be fixed with the simple inclusion of a theme song.

Aside from that this is pointless to debate anyway because it just simply isn’t true.

NoahCrofRaider 17-06-19 21:02

[QUOTE=SoraSakai;8101412]Even if this were true (it isn’t), but even if it were (which it’s not), in what way would this improve any issues with Shadow at all?

Are we all really that nostalgia-thirsty that a simple theme song would fix problems with the game?

It’s not like any of the narrative issues, gameplay flaws, and lack of true payoff would at all be fixed with the simple inclusion of a theme song.

Aside from that this is pointless to debate anyway because it just simply isn’t true.[/QUOTE]

For those who hate the game already, then no, it probably wouldn’t save the game, but little connections to the past can soothe wounds a little. That’s why some people really appreciate stuff like the teal recolor or the default outfit. It’s little things like those that can make people not feel forgotten.

malferink 17-06-19 22:14

[QUOTE=Gemma Darkmoon;8100903]Hi guys. I have heard a credible leak which has been circulating so thought I would share this info on here. We know many have asked for the TR theme back well some of the tracks from Tomb Raider Suite were apparently at one stage supposed to be key tracks in Shadow. Let have a look at this info then.

~ The main theme of Shadow was to include the original TR motif and contained a section from what is now a track TRS called 'in the blood'.

~ The credits were to feature a second new reworking (There is a second reworking called precious moments featured in TRS)

~ A early section of the game where animals would attack in an arena from various entry points was to feature a reworked boss theme from the original game. (this sounds like the leopard den which also seems to fit)

[B]~ All these inclusions were apparently scrapped after a disagreement between CD/EM and Nathan McCree over issues around money and rights agreements and the themes were never used.[/B]

The info appears pretty credible and this is just a desperate shame all round. What do you guys think? Do you it could be genuine and if so you what do think to the fact that it never came off? I am so disappointed in both parties for not managing to make this happen.[/QUOTE]

After all the news about the TRS and Nathan I guess this information is actually quite credible. It really is a shame Nathan is such an asshole.

[QUOTE=LaraCablara;8101242]You all are so nasty like geez :p[/QUOTE]

Like for real, the people you quoted sound dumb AF now. With the recent surfacing of the news about Nathan and his project the information Gemma provided doesn't sound all that far-fetched at all.


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