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teme9 04-12-14 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeinzFritz (Post 7227161)
@meta2tr

Now another eccentricity...

I have been lately doing some additional experiments with the blend modes available with TREP and meta2tr combined:

An effect created when placing a transparent tile in front of a fixed camera makes the complete screen get an overlay which is either plain colored or textured. It all depends of the blend modes used and the textures themselves. Nothing new so far as this has been done by builders before (at least I suppose so). But it is still not possible to use this effect throughout the game when lara cam is active.

So I thought that the way the attribute of the transparency works (second from top on the grid in Meta) with texts jumping in front of lara, which you kindly implemented in your limits breaking tool, could be added to the four lowest transparencies in the Meta grid.

If I remember right the trick is that the in front jumping transparency has one coordinate missing.

If this coordinate could be removed from the other four mentioned transparencies, (by putting the tile on the left or right side (after the shine) then all the time a round wall around the scene could jump forward and give the screen a colored tint, which, by the way reacts to all lightening in the room, the effect would be similar to fog, but much more interesting.

I hope that this text is not too confusing, and that you get the idea about what could be created this way.

It would work nice as a screen effect. I tried to achieve something similar through drawing sprites on screen with trng. I think that it wasn't possible to change the blending method of that sprite on screen though! Having some kind of color gradient as a overlay effect would be really nice :D

I must warn you though! Every big transparent object on whole screen can affect the performance. If the whole screen is filled big transparent object this will cause overdraw. The problem will be at its worst when there are multiple transparent objects drawing on top of each other. Tomb4 engine does not handle transparency that well!

HeinzFritz 04-12-14 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by teme9 (Post 7227503)
I must warn you though! Every big transparent object on whole screen can affect the performance. If the whole screen is filled big transparent object this will cause overdraw. The problem will be at its worst when there are multiple transparent objects drawing on top of each other. Tomb4 engine does not handle transparency that well!

I'm quite aware of that, but to achieve an overlay effect, I am willing to reduce the overall amount of meshes, and details. Besides, this effect would be pointless in a 255 rooms level.
On the other hand, small "flashbacks" levels with several rooms only... I can think of a thousand ways to use it.
Anyway, I have no idea still how to do the implementation of the feature myself, so let's wait for Meta2tr to either do it, or say something like: "Aaaaaah, another absurd request! I'll rather spend my time in St.Tropez, even if it is winter."

teme9 04-12-14 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeinzFritz (Post 7227629)
I'm quite aware of that, but to achieve an overlay effect, I am willing to reduce the overall amount of meshes, and details. Besides, this effect would be pointless in a 255 rooms level.
On the other hand, small "flashbacks" levels with several rooms only... I can think of a thousand ways to use it.
Anyway, I have no idea still how to do the implementation of the feature myself, so let's wait for Meta2tr to either do it, or say something like: "Aaaaaah, another absurd request! I'll rather spend my time in St.Tropez, even if it is winter."

The idea is wonderful, I am also eagerly waiting to know if it is possible! I did not mean that the idea should not be done because it might affect the performace in certain manner. If anything I'd like to see this idea working :)
Of course if there's way to make it less demanding that surely would be big plus!

HeinzFritz 05-12-14 15:23

<
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by teme9 (Post 7227661)
The idea is wonderful,

I think so too.

By the way, while experimenting I found out that another transparency mode which is built-in the exe has not been enabled in the grid system of meta2tr.

It is a subtle additive transparency with index number 10 in Turbo Pascal's updated version of TR Texture and can be set to tiles in TR Texture by typing 10 in the index box for the selected tile.

The good thing is that you can easily do it in TR Texture for one or several tiles inside the room geometry.

The bad thing is that afterwards, if you import the level into meta2tr, it reverts to opaque.

Also bad is that if you want to use this transparency on an UV unwrapped model, then you have to search, find, and change all the 1000+ fragments separately.

I hope that Meta2tr will read this post and add the feature to the next version.

HeinzFritz 09-12-14 14:49

7 - The craziest of all transparencies
 
As my experiments with transparencies and their combinations continue, I finally discovered what transparency 7 (which I wrongly assumed is just an everyday, plain opaque surface) turned out to be the craziest of all when combined with other types of transparency:

When the texture panel with the transparency attribute 7 is placed behind another transparent panel it "eats" the other's transparency and makes it invisible in the part that is in front of the transparency 7 panel. But when any object, Lara, Baddy x etc that carelessly walks or stands between the two panels it's shape hides the texture of the panel 7 and it's shape gets an overlay of the panel texture in front of it.

I suggest, instead of trying to understand the confusing text above, to simply try it out.

Note that transparency 7 (as well as transparency 10) you can apply so far only in Turbo's Tr Texture (unless Meta2tr implements these transparencies to the newest release).

Also note that transparency type 3 works only with TREP.
I do not know if 7 and 10 work with TRNG.

Titak 09-12-14 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeinzFritz (Post 7233001)
I suggest, instead of trying to understand the confusing text above, to simply try it out.

Also note that transparency type 3 works only with TREP.
I do not know if 7 and 10 work with TRNG.

Or a screenshot from you... :mis:

Do you know if it works with FLEP?

HeinzFritz 09-12-14 16:38

I know that transparency type 3 works only with TREP (Meta2tr told me that when he enlarged his grid for 3 and 4. Transparency 3 is the one of which I initially thought that it lets only shiny parts of moveables be seen through. In the meantime I discovered that combined with other transparencies the effects are, to put it mildly, stunning.
I have not tried 7 and 10 with FLEP, as I'm sticking to TREP and don't even have the NG tools and etc installed on my PC. That is one of the reasons I am encouraging all interested to try it all out themselves.
You can do it easily:
Enable the new transparencies FLEP patch and patch the exe.
Make a test room with several one tile panels (use different flowery ones to make it all more romantic) and place them like dominoes one behind the other so you can walk Lara in front, in between and behind them.
Tune it all so it looks OK in Meta.
Compile the level, then open it in Tr Texture. Find the textures on the lower dropdown menu and type in the right side upper box for every texture a value from 0 to 10.
You can easily change these at any moment without having to close Tr Texture.
Put the level in your data folder, and the hallucinations should start immediately, without any need to visit your local coffee shop.

Titak 19-05-15 21:04

When I drop my tr4 file onto the meta2tr.exe, I'm getting that "Warning - room has more than 8192 vertices" message again.
I'm used to that the first time I unpack a level since I'm using the MapMerge feature, so it's no big deal really, but I'm always having a pretty hard time finding the rooms in which this happens. The report.txt does not say which rooms this is happening in.

Am I overlooking something or am I doomed to check each room individually to see if it passes the 8192 vertex limit? :ponder:


Btw, it has been a while since I used Meta2TR and I'm still using Meta version 3.11. Is that still a good version to work with? (so I can get all features currently implemented in Meta2TR?) :ponder:


(Oh my... one of the rooms has almost 18000 vertices :yik: It's those banisters I made and used a lot in this room! :vlol:)

Level NextGen 19-05-15 21:39

In fact the merger tool can increase a lot the vertices you have in a room. I tend to only import some objects.

Anyway normally during the process you can read how many vertices has a room. Well except that it doesn't show after the merging.

Code:

Scanning file MapMergeList.txt for objects to be merged to map...
 - ANIMATING1_MIP: merging into map.done.
 - ANIMATING6_MIP: not found in map.
 - ANIMATING5_MIP: merging into map......done.
 - PLANT2: merging into map....done.
 - PLANT3: merging into map.......done.
 - PLANT5: merging into map......done.
 - PLANT6: merging into map..........done.
 - PLANT8: merging into map.................done.

So what I do is importing back the All_Rooms.mqo in meta2TR so I can know which room has too much vertices after the merging, by example :

Code:

Building file D:\TRNGLE\Adventures\BeyondIllusion\META2TR\2.0 Level\RoomAll.mqo into level...

Importing room 1 ........  418 vertices    7735 level textures  ...
Importing room 2 ........  140 vertices    7897 level textures 

The total number of room vertices in the level is 14509.

Here it's okay ;)


EDIT: Ahh read you still use meta2TR version 3.11 :yik: I advise you to upgrade with the last version 8 - I'm not sure you may have trouble to export your project to a newer version... well few things has changed - so try in a new folder

OR at least with a newer version you can know how many vertices your generated "newlevel" has by copy/paste it into the meta2TR exe v.8

HeinzFritz 19-05-15 22:41

@Level NextGen
You misunderstood Titak. She is using the Metaseq version 3.11, not the meta2tr version 3.11 (non existent by the way).
@Titak, costs you nothing to upgrade your Metaseq to free version 3.16.
I am afraid that you will have to check the suspicious rooms by hit and miss. But you should know in advance where you overdid with the details & room size.
Anyway, it is worth the effort. Since the newest version of meta2tr, it all works like a charm and makes most of the usual tools unnecessary.
I sometimes have the feeling that meta2tr is the ultimate tool ever built for making TR4 levels completely different compared to the average tr4 stereotypes.


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