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-   -   Shadow of the Tomb Raider - General Chat (https://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=219557)

charmedangelin 28-11-19 22:47

Paititi shouldn't have been the main game hub, heck it shouldn't have even existed in the first place. If you want to do a game on indegenious people than do it properly in a game that's meant for it. Shadow failed to show any of them in a better light and didn't do Tomb Raider any justice.

Horrible design, horrible decision to include that place in the game. Social aspects are a no for Tomb Raider.

Ellioft 28-11-19 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by charmedangelin (Post 8155587)
Paititi shouldn't have been the main game hub, heck it shouldn't have even existed in the first place. If you want to do a game on indegenious people than do it properly in a game that's meant for it. Shadow failed to show any of them in a better light and didn't do Tomb Raider any justice.

.

I don't see the problems with the indegenious peoples in Shadow they are well represented and it's refreshing to see another culture in Tomb Raider also them at not being just an enemy. Also it offer the chance for Lara to grow as a character (I invite you to read the great thread made by Late Raider about this).

Comics Top Cow Lara does have encounter several tribes and learned from it.

Classic Lara sadly due to the time only blasted the indegenious with her weapons because it was the bad guys of the game.

But it's a good thing but only for one game.

charmedangelin 28-11-19 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellioft (Post 8155599)
I don't see the problems with the indegenious peoples in Shadow they are well represented and it's refreshing to see another culture in Tomb Raider also them at not being just an enemy. Also it offer the chance for Lara to grow as a character (I invite you to read the great thread made by Late Raider about this).

Comics Top Cow Lara does have encounter several tribes and learned from it.

Classic Lara sadly due to the time only blasted the indegenious with her weapons because it was the bad guys of the game.

But it's a good thing but only for one game.

The problem is the fact that the game was all about Lara white knighting for them and them being unable to solve their problems without a white English woman to come in and solve it for them. I can't imagine how anyone progressive or pushing for proper recognition of indegenious people in films and games would be too happy with Shadows handling of it all. They could have easily had Paititi be a cutscene or a few cutscenes for story purposes, but Shadow does nothing revolutionary in representation of indegenious people. Especially when it perpetuates the stereotype of indegenious people being murderers and pushing the human sacrifice narrative that many complained about in franchises like Indian Jones and some complain about here with TR3.

I mean Lara had to solve even the most mundane of problems that they should have been able to solve for themselves.

Edit

Reboot Lara also had fun killing indigenous people in the jungle. The cult for example evil or not are indigenous people too and if TR3 gets flack then so does Shadow. Ultimately I think it's stupid to get mad as seeing such things when white people are usually the subjects of evil in video games, but if we are to be fair then Shadow is the ultimate criminal if it all because Lara spends most of the game killing them and trying to remake their culture in her ideals with the help of etizi.

Ellioft 28-11-19 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by charmedangelin (Post 8155601)
The problem is the fact that the game was all about Lara white knighting for them and them being unable to solve their problems without a white English woman to come in and solve it for them. I can't imagine how anyone progressive or pushing for proper recognition of indegenious people in films and games would be too happy with Shadows handling of it all. They could have easily had Paititi be a cutscene or a few cutscenes for story purposes, but Shadow does nothing revolutionary in representation of indegenious people. Especially when it perpetuates the stereotype of indegenious people being murderers and pushing the human sacrifice narrative that many complained about in franchises like Indian Jones and some complain about here with TR3.

I mean Lara had to solve even the most mundane of problems that they should have been able to solve for themselves.

Well I dont think she was the white knight she helped the peoples but they have done a lot too they weren't passive about the situation. They already have a rebellion. Lara was just a good ally to have in their camp.

I never said it was revolutionary but they weren't threated like stupid peoples afraid of everything.

The sacrifices are only made by the Kukulkan Cult also the notion of sacrifice was real in the historical aspects.

So for me it doesn't count as a stereotype.

charmedangelin 28-11-19 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellioft (Post 8155605)
Well I dont think she was the white knight she helped the peoples but they have done a lot too they weren't passive about the situation. They already have a rebellion. Lara was just a good ally to have in their camp.

I never said it was revolutionary but they weren't threated like stupid peoples afraid of everything.

The sacrifices are only made by the Kukulkan Cult also the notion of sacrifice was real in the historical aspects.

So for me it doesn't count as a stereotype.

It most certainly does because Indiana had its good tribes and it still got flack. What did they actually do? Lara got all the artifacts, she got all the weapons like the white breath for example. They were rebelling, but Amaru had all the control. There was little they could do without Lara's help, in other words white knighting.

Costel 28-11-19 23:26

The cult people were so friendly with Lara. They all wanted to have a tea party but the mean Lara was killing them.:p

charmedangelin 28-11-19 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Costel (Post 8155609)
The cult people were so friendly with Lara. They all wanted to have a tea party but the mean Lara was killing them.:p

Like Lara was trying to defend herself in TR3? Oh wait I forget that's a really bad example because she was murdering the people trying to kill her and stop her from getting the infada stone.

Funny how two games guilty of the same thing get different reception depending on the crowd your speaking to.

Grizzly Bear 28-11-19 23:34

All these critics about Lara being white are so boring at this point.

If she was against indigenous people, that would have been wrong because she would have been a selfish white woman.

She helps them, and she is still criticized because she is their "white saviour".

What should have she done?
Why does her skin color should have a role in her actions?

She could be black, white or whatever, that's not important; but Lara as a character is a British white woman who works as an archeologist and goes on adventures around the world; if someone doesn't approve that it's not Lara's or the developers' fault.

This reminds me of Resident Evil 5, everyone criticized it by saying "the typical American man that murders black people", but no one had said a thing about the same thing happening with Resident Evil 4 for example with Spanish people instead of African people; now what, are Spanish people inferior or what? Why don't they deserve the same "protection from fans" like the others?

And I clarify that I say this because in all those examples I've talked about there are no episodes of racism, if there was racism in them I would have been highly against them.

Costel 28-11-19 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by charmedangelin (Post 8155610)
Like Lara was trying to defend herself in TR3? Oh wait I forget that's a really bad example because she was murdering the people trying to kill her and stop her from getting the infada stone.

Funny how two games guilty of the same thing get different reception depending on nthe crowd your speaking to.

Did I said anything of TR3 Lara?:confused: Did I said she did something wrong? Did you just defended her without me acussing her of something ? Oh,yea you did, you did.

charmedangelin 28-11-19 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Costel (Post 8155613)
Did I said anything of TR3 Lara?:confused: Did I said she did something wrong? Did you just defended her without me acussing her of something ? Oh,yea you did, you did.

No I was jumping off your thought train because someone did accuse her of wrong doing not too long ago. In fact several here have expressed they want TR3 changed if they ever remade the game.

I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of these people.


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