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-   -   Larson... "Conway"? (https://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=221077)

LateRaider 05-09-18 20:54

Larson... "Conway"?
 
Edit as of Jan 11 2020 - "Conway" appears to be made up. Read here for the history of the surname, which is being updated as new developments drop: Click

Edit as of Jan 25 2020 - Got made into an article. Read here. Updated Dec 1 2021.

Edit as of Jan 17 2021 - "Conway" has been official since 2016! Click the first link to read more.

I expect by January 2022 we'll have even more info :p

Edit as of Jul 27 2021 - Ed Perkins of Tomb Raider Reloaded has accidentally canonized the name further. Again, see the first link

Original post as follows.

------------

Hi everyone. I hope you're doing well today. With Shadow of the Tomb Raider so close on the horizon, I know it seems silly of me to ask a trivial question like this, but I figure it's worth a shot in the dark.

We all know Larson's surname is "Conway," right? Thing is, I have no idea where it originates. WikiRaider and the Tomb Raider Wiki both say it comes from TR: Anniversary, but Larson's unlockable in-game biography simply calls him "Larson". It's not on Natla's computers when Lara breaks into her office, either.

The 90's collectible card game isn't the origin either; that erroneously calls him "Larsen".

Can anyone help me out? Thanks for your time; have a great day and please, be kind.

Samz 05-09-18 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by LateRaider (Post 7966781)
Hi everyone. I hope you're doing well today. With Shadow of the Tomb Raider so close on the horizon, I know it seems silly of me to ask a trivial question like this, but I figure it's worth a shot in the dark.

We all know Larson's surname is "Conway," right? Thing is, I have no idea where we got ot from. WikiRaider and the Tomb Raider Wiki both say it comes from TR: Anniversary, but Larson's unlockable in-game biography simply calls him "Larson". It's not on Natla's computers when Lara breaks into her office, either.

The 90's collectible card game isn't the origin either; that erroneously calls him "Larsen".

Can anyone help me out? Thanks for your time; have a great day and please, be kind.

Apparently it originates somehow with Anniversary (maybe the commentary or a dev interview?), It's not in the classics, I checked the two wiki's and I checked The Official Tomb Raider Fact Files (essentially an Annual for the series released before AOD, it even has a Beta AOD Lara render at the end of the book with green trousers and black pants and other stuff like the unused Scarecrow in Ireland) and they don't mention his surname.

LateRaider 06-09-18 01:29

Thank you for the response, Samz, despite our differences. :) I appreciate it a lot.

I decided to do some hunting because this mystery was very perplexing. I'm fond of figuring out fandom myths and the truth behind fanon, so down the rabbit hole I went.

I first found this thread on the Square Enix Europe message board, which I presume was once the Eidos board.

The original poster, Salazar, claimed to have gotten their intel from "TRC's boards." Since Justin runs TombRaiderChronicles.com, I assumed that Salazar meant these very forums. Off to Google I went, searching site:tombraiderforums.com "conway" (And let me tell you, it was super annoying to have to sift through tons of posts by user Conway, lmao)

I wound up finding this. This appears to be ground zero (near as I can tell) for the fandom-widespread belief of Larson's surname. No scans of the sourced magazine were ever provided.

Jo269976 claims to have gotten their source from a Dr. Cheese on IMDb's message boards, which are long since gone. I decided to scour the Wayback Machine for more intel, but unfortunately, IMDb only goes as far as Jun 2007 for TR:A discussion. I searched the TR: Legend forum as well to no avail. I have no idea where this would have been discussed. I also can't seem to find any scans of PC Powerplay magazine.

Can anyone else help? So far, it's looking like this is entirely fanon, with just that one lead of PC Powerplay magazine from January or February 2007. I can't find any official TR sources that actually call him "Larson Conway."

Edit 1 - Before I did any of this, I did check the ending credits and all 5 cutscenes TR:A Larson is featured in. (Calcutta, QTE after Tomb of Qualopec, Lara viewing Natla's footage of him when she breaks into her office, the cliffs where Lara's guns are stolen, QTE where you kill him) In the credits, and no one's full name is listed except Lara's; same for the unlockable biographies. (Meaning that the man of subject is just "Larson" in both places) I also checked the in-game commentaries, and he's just called "Larson" there.

Edit 2 - Not really related to the subject at hand, but I'm glad that I'm not the first one to discuss this name debacle, lol

Edit 3 - To clarify, I'm pretty sure we're looking for the Australian "PC PowerPlay", (issue 135, 2007 Feb) not the German "PC Power Play".

Zsott 06-09-18 11:58

Interesting question!

https://www.wikiraider.com/index.php/Larson
-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomb_Raider_Chronicles


The first one suggest CD gave the name. That article was made in 2015.
The second one suggest Larson always had a surname. That article was edited very recently: 16th of august,2018.

Side note: I never take these sites seriously, since anyone can edit it. However, I believe it was CD who gave him a surname when they made a biography for him.
Don't forget in Anniversary, Toby Gard was still involved, it could have been his idea; just like to turn Natla to some kind of demigod. (ingame commentary for proof)

Yeauxleaux 06-09-18 18:12

"Larson" sounds more like a surname to begin with tbh, well to me anyway (I know anything goes with names in America though, so idk maybe it isn't).

Quebsenuef 06-09-18 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yeauxleaux (Post 7967302)
"Larson" sounds more like a surname to begin with tbh, well to me anyway (I know anything goes with names in America though, so idk maybe it isn't).

As an American I take offense!
My children Saturnalia and Mephistopheles are perfectly named little angels!

:ton: :pillow:
Nah, you’re right. America has some pretty odd names haha

Dustie 06-09-18 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quebsenuef (Post 7967339)
As an American I take offense!
My children Saturnalia and Mephistopheles are perfectly named little angels!

Saturnalia tho :vlol:

LateRaider 06-09-18 21:29

Thanks for your thoughts, everybody! I much appreciate the help. :)

Edit - I had the wrong issue of PC PowerPlay. This post has been amended as a result. However, the findings remain the same.

We've located the magazine in question.

Turns out it's just a simple 1-page blurb on page 14, with Timothy C. Best's thoughts being that TR:A seems to be an exciting return to basic adventuring. But the important part is, this article has no mention of Larson at all. None.

Just to be sure that I didn't get my magazines confused, I found a text transcript of the German "PC Power Play" from February 2007, and it also speaks nothing of Larson.

Before I can say with confidence that we can wrap things up here, a number of things could still be going on.

1. Dr. Cheese didn't mean to type "PC PowerPlay";
2. There's a third magazine named "PC Powerplay" out there; or
3. Issues 134 or 136 of PC PowerPlay mention TR:A characters by full name.

(Point 3 seems unlikely, however; I've checked those issues' tables of contents, and it seems like #135 was the only one to mention TR:A. I checked #140 as well, which has a final review on TR:A, and no character is mentioned other than Lara. I could be wrong though, and it might be hidden away in a magazine proper. I didn't read the full issues, after all.)

But at the moment, the final verdict seems to be:

Dr. Cheese made up their information. Larson never had a surname--or a first name.

(If you check the TRF thread I linked that sparked the search for PC PowerPlay #135, you'll see blue_box suggests Larson's first name might be "Milo," coming from PC Gamer's "movie script," but I doubt this is official intel.)

So... where do we go from here, gang?

Well, this is all just one man's opinion, but... Larson "Conway" has been deeply entrenched in the fandom for 11 years now. It's a nice-sounding name, and there's no reason to stop giving him this surname. Fan-made media, official and unofficial fansites, and even some official outlets have been giving our sexy blond cowboy this last name for ages, and I doubt that it's going to change now.

However, due to the fact that this is a fan-given surname, I think that it should be removed on wikis and no longer given in official or official-style articles and infopieces.

And there we have it. Another Tomb Raider mystery solved. :tmb:

JoelCaesar 07-09-18 06:16

^^^
Well Done! That was such an interesting read!

LateRaider 07-09-18 08:20

Oh hold on, something doesn't add up. PC PowerPlay #140 is from July, not January, February, or March. Let me look up the proper magazines, lol. I knew something was off when the magazine I found was #140...

Edit 1 - Outcome was the same. He is not named in issue 135, which is what I was seeking all along.

Edit 2 - Now that that's fixed, I can say: thanks, JoelCaesar! I'm glad you enjoyed it. :)

Maverin 07-09-18 09:39

So if I understand this correctly, then Larson's official surname remains unknown. We only have a fanmade surname which is 'Conway'. Is that right? Makes me wonder how people came up with Conway in the first place :ponder:

LateRaider 07-09-18 11:49

You're understanding right, Maverin!

"Conway" might've come from the country singer Conway Twitty, or from the town Conway, Arkansas. Larson was from Arkansas in the Core Design timeline. Still, it's strange that Dr. Cheese just randomly assigned Larson a surname.

I do have another theory: Dr. Cheese never existed, and was made up by Jo269976 here on TRF.

See, I searched the Wayback Machine's archives of IMDb’s forum, and I couldn't find a thread on TR:A pre-release info, let alone a person by the handle "Dr. Cheese."

I do admit a pre-release thread on TR:A could exist elsewhere in IMDb forum archives, but that’s highly doubtful considering how IMDb’s forums were laid out--each individual title had a discussion hub. (I also admit that I didn’t have the patience to check elsewhere; I have no idea where on the forum I’d begin looking. The LCTR or Cradle of Life forums, maybe?) If Jo269976 knows the answer, they can't tell us; their last site visit was in 2011.

Whether or not Dr. Cheese exists or existed at one point, there's one question burning on my mind. Why give Larson a surname in the first place? Perhaps adoration for a minor villain--bumbling and somewhat sexist, but still beloved all the same. I know I would have given Larson a second name, be it first or last, if it had been up to me.

But until my research is proven otherwise, the answer remains: Larson is simply Larson, no more and no less.

Edit - Well, I found a thread on Lara Croft Online that also references the Dr. Cheese message, and even provides a link to the now-defunct IMDb page that Dr. Cheese apparently posted in. I tried to take it to the Wayback Machine, but it sadly wasn't archived... And no one in either the TRF thread or the LCO thread ever provided conclusive evidence that Larson's name is dropped in a PC PowerPlay issue. (March's issue would be more likely, but as I said before, my cursory examination of PC PowerPlay #136 doesn't seem to have anything on TR:A.)

Pyro99 08-09-18 00:14

.... come to think of it I've somehow always been so sure of it? Maybe it's said by the devs in commentary?

LateRaider 08-09-18 00:52

It is not said in the commentary. I checked Stella's commentary transcripts. It was a good suggestion, though!

Edit - I just listened to all 5 TR:A dev diaries too, and no one's name is mentioned except Lara's. If we wanted to be 100% sure, we could try asking Justin if he got "Conway" from an official source, (I emailed Roli on Raiding the Globe already) or maybe even contacting Toby Gard on Twitter or something.

Zreen001 08-09-18 19:53

I remember for some reason also calling Larson's last name as Conway in a fan video I made back in 2008. Not quite sure why.

Moosey 09-09-18 11:29

this has blown my mind. Why the **** do we all collectively know him as Conway????
Must be the Mandela effect in action :D:p

LateRaider 09-09-18 13:34

I don't know if it's necessarily Mandela effect, since I did find a ground zero source for where we got Conway from. But it certainly, at the very least, is proof of how far-reaching and pervasive rumors can be.

Still no word back from Raiding the Globe. Do you guys think I should try emailing or PMing Justin as well? Several places I searched claim that they got Larson's last name from TombRaiderChronicles.com. Also, would it be worth tweeting Toby?

JoelCaesar 11-09-18 11:28

I'm very curious about this, I think you should.

LateRaider 11-09-18 13:15

I sent an email to the Tomb Raider Chronicles staff. Tweeting Toby will be next if they have no idea.

...Lmao, that makes me think of something silly. Wouldn't it be funny if it turns out Dr. Cheese made it up and even the official TR staff thought Conway was created internally?

Zreen001 11-09-18 23:13

Conway is given as the last name in the cast section at our sister site:
https://www.tombraiderchronicles.com...haracters.html

Then there's this interesting history of the wikiraider article on Larson:
15 October 2004 https://www.wikiraider.com/index.php...nway&oldid=887 Simple entry.
1 April 2005 https://www.wikiraider.com/index.php...way&oldid=2700 Added Pierre.
6 April 2005 https://www.wikiraider.com/index.php...way&oldid=4231 Added du Pont.
5 March 2007 https://www.wikiraider.com/index.php...ay&oldid=13246 Added Conway and article itself moved to "Larson Conway"

29 August 2015 is the earliest entry for Larson Conway in the "Lara Croft Wiki":
http://tombraider.wikia.com/wiki/Lar...e)?oldid=26736

But Conway was added in the original Larson character article started in 2008:
29 February 2008 http://tombraider.wikia.com/wiki/Lar...ne)?oldid=1783

None of the in-game commentaries refer to Larson's last name.

LateRaider 16-09-18 10:27

I've received an email from Roli on Raiding the Globe.

"If I remember correctly his full name was revealed in the official Tomb Raider 1 and 5 guides by Prima Games. I'll have to take a look about that, though, because they are 'out of the home' at the moment.

I'll get back to you once I'll have a chance to recheck them."


So, we have a lead, which is nice! I don't own the Prima guides though, unfortunately, and they're long since out of stock.

Samz 16-09-18 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by LateRaider (Post 7978348)
I've received an email from Roli on Raiding the Globe.

"If I remember correctly his full name was revealed in the official Tomb Raider 1 and 5 guides by Prima Games. I'll have to take a look about that, though, because they are 'out of the home' at the moment.

I'll get back to you once I'll have a chance to recheck them."


So, we have a lead, which is nice! I don't own the Prima guides though, unfortunately, and they're long since out of stock.

Good to see the hunt is still on.

Zreen001 16-09-18 22:40

My folks own the Prima for 5, maybe I can ask them.

LateRaider 17-09-18 01:36

That'd be very helpful, Zreen!

Zreen001 17-09-18 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by LateRaider (Post 7979319)
That'd be very helpful, Zreen!

I've let them know what's going on (it was a strange conversation) and they said they'll look through it sometime today.

paul123456 17-09-18 20:01

I had a look in the Prima TR5 walkthrough and he's simply listed as "Larson". I also had a look in the Anniversary walkthrough and he's also just listed as "Larson".

EDIT: I just found this old thread: http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=88224

Zreen001 17-09-18 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul123456 (Post 7980078)

EDIT: I just found this old thread: http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=88224

Yep, that was mentioned earlier in this thread, good find

LateRaider 18-09-18 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul123456 (Post 7980078)
I had a look in the Prima TR5 walkthrough and he's simply listed as "Larson". I also had a look in the Anniversary walkthrough and he's also just listed as "Larson".

EDIT: I just found this old thread: http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=88224

Thanks Paul. Maybe Tomb Raider I's walkthrough has it? Doubtful. I did link to that thread earlier and no source was provided; it just talks about a mysterious Dr. Cheese, who may or may not exist, on IMDb's former forum. Thanks though! :)

paul123456 18-09-18 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by LateRaider (Post 7980286)
Thanks Paul. Maybe Tomb Raider I's walkthrough has it? Doubtful. I did link to that thread earlier and no source was provided; it just talks about a mysterious Dr. Cheese, who may or may not exist, on IMDb's former forum. Thanks though! :)

I've just had a look in my TR1 walkthrough and again he's only listed as Larson again :confused:

LateRaider 18-09-18 18:47

Thanks again, Paul! So right now we're waiting on Justin to get back to me. Only other options I can think of are trying to track down Dr. Cheese and/or Jo269976.

Kapu 20-09-18 01:06

This topic has really piqued my interest! I've always thought that the last name "Conway" was an addition from the Crystal trilogy. It's wild to think that "Conway" has been so ubiquitously accepted as Larson's last name, and yet there's no official source to be found. I have a copy of The Official Tomb Raider Files by Susie Hamilton and I just combed over it, but there's no mention of a last name for Larson there, either. Or Pierre for that matter, although his last name is spoken in TR1 so we know it exists.

LateRaider 20-09-18 13:12

Thanks, Kapu! Pierre's name is spoken aloud in Anniversary, too, by Lara. (As a side note, the subtitles spell it Pierre Dupont, for the curious. Not du Pont, DuPont, or other variations! So there ya go. :P )

I think I might try contacting Meagan Marie or Toby Gard if TRC has no leads. Not sure if they'll respond since this issue is so petty, but they're really the last sources I can think of other than what I suggested earlier, to track down Jo or Dr. Cheese, which might be impossible.

Moosey 21-09-18 22:52

Hopefully Justin can shed some light on this :D I'm actually really curious to find out!

Helegad 01-10-18 07:40

German Tomb Raider Chronicles guide calls him only Larson.

Zreen001 01-10-18 13:31

I even tried contacting Larson's Anniversary voice actor a few weeks ago to ask whether he knew anything about "Conway", no answer yet but maybe I just messaged an out-of-use email.

LateRaider 01-10-18 22:19

No word back from Justin. I'm sure he'll get back to me when some of the SotTR craziness has settled down. It was the absolute worst timing on my part to find this out...

Edit 1 - I forgot to say, thanks for helping me out, Helegad and Zreen! If we wanted to contact Dave Wittenberg, maybe we could try Twitter? Remaining cordial as possible, of course. I remember Dave does a lot of video games and anime, so Twitter might have his most active presence.

Edit 2 - So, I decided to check the N-Gage port of TR1, since it uses text transcripts rather than voice acting and FMVs. Unfortunately, there's no source of "Conway" there. But I did solve two other minor oddities.

First, Pierre's surname has been spelled Dupont officially since 2003. Which is good to know.

https://i.imgur.com/KFTx2C0.png

Secondly, I had thought the term "Croft Manor" might've been an invention of Crystal Dynamics. The Manor was only ever called Lara's Home in the Core Design canon, after all. But here we see our first instance of a Core game calling it Croft Manor.

https://i.imgur.com/f50upaS.png

Thinking on it, the term probably came from the Jolie films. But still, it's good to know we can officially retroactively call the Manor by that name.

Edit 3 - Thanks to AVGN's Tomb Raider video, I was able to read a portion of the opening of the N-Gage port, which the LPer of the videos I ripped those from skipped. And... it yielded nothing of note.

https://i.imgur.com/meUoCQe.png

Apparently, inconsistencies about his name have grown. This agrees with the card game's spelling of Larsen, despite the fact that it's spelled with an O here:

https://i.imgur.com/SbmDmEt.jpg

No other developments yet.

LateRaider 24-10-18 23:55

Sorry to double-post; I'll be emailing TRC.com again in November to see if they had any time to turn anything up. No new developments have arisen since last month.

Helegad 25-10-18 03:04

A little bit off-topic but not worth an entire new one... Seems that Pierre, having failed miserably at requisitioning artifacts, faked his death and turned to street racing in Rockport City :D

https://i.postimg.cc/dQZ1pZ3b/20181016055621.png

Samz 25-10-18 08:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helegad (Post 8004512)
A little bit off-topic but not worth an entire new one... Seems that Pierre, having failed miserably at requisitioning artifacts, faked his death and turned to street racing in Rockport City :D

https://i.postimg.cc/dQZ1pZ3b/20181016055621.png

New TR boss fight.


Make it happen.

Motorbike VS Car Race.

_KC_ 28-10-18 11:36

Sorry I have nothing to add but I just wanted to thank you all for an interesting topic and for your hard work researching.

Did anybody manage to reach out to Toby or Meagan? It's a long shot but perhaps Peter Connelly or Nathan McCree might know something? I mention them only because I know they openly talk to fans.

Good luck. :)


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