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-   -   Request for a bigger, more ambitious Lara Croft game in third person. (https://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=213234)

Nigel Cassidy 06-12-15 14:34

Request for a bigger, more ambitious Lara Croft game in third person.
 
Dearly beloved Crystal Dynamics,

When it comes to post-Underworld games I have decided that I am no longer a Tomb Raider fan. There, I said it. I am a Lara Croft fan instead - of the series Lara Croft.

I have decided that the reboot TR games have nothing to offer me: yes, the gameplay is good, but it's nothing that can't be found elsewhere and the 'Lara Croft' here is not 'my' Lara Croft, not the one that I enjoy.

I now understand that Guardian of Light back in the days ushered in a new series, the spin-off series Lara Croft. I am most grateful that you kept traditional Lara alive in this spin-off and I have greatly enjoyed most of it's games. But what I'm asking for now is: is it possible to make a bigger, more ambitious, more expensive game in third person perspective in this series? One that has gameplay that is kinda similar to Rise of the Tomb Raider, as in:

- manual aim.
- platforming with the aftertouch feature.
- weapon upgrading.
- some RPG-ish things

...but with this Lara:

http://i.imgur.com/LKmlwSK.jpg

Who's got:

- dual pistols.
- Keeley Hawes' voice.
- And, well.. I don't need to explain how this Lara needs to be; Temple of Osiris got it perfectly as far as I'm concerned. :)

And of course the world in which that Lara lives: so instead of getting dirty and bloodied and crying in the corner, this Lara is supposed to be ridiculously awesome, and looking amazing while being it.

Like when in Relic Run she drives her quad over a cliff, dives down, grabs a liana and ends up on a path to continue. Or when she jumps over a Tyrannosaur. I was like: 'Yes! That is the ridiculous awesomeness I want to see Lara Croft doing!'
Also take note how the environment is bright and colourful and both it and Lara are a pleasure to look at. That's what I want, you know? Brightness and colour! And perhaps the graphics don't need to be super advanced; I think this style of game works better in graphics like below:

http://i.imgur.com/LVmjYvJ.jpg?1http://i.imgur.com/SjDwNxm.jpg?1

Making a large, third person game around this Lara would allow for reintroducing some of the elements of the Lara Croft mythology that games like Temple of Osiris are not exactly the right platform for: such as the manorhouse, a high society party, or vehicle sections.

Personally, I was a huge fan of Carter Bell, and of the comical dialogue that he had in Temple of Osiris. That lighthearted comedic element was so incredibly welcome after the way too heavy, serious darkness of the reboot games, it really sets the two series apart from eachother. So put Carter Bell in that game too please.

http://i.imgur.com/9aUUl5F.jpg?1

As for the gameplay elements that require a bow: I would be severely displeased if that friggin' thing was gonna show up in this game, but I accept a crossbow or a harpoon gun: those things do seem appropriate for traditional Lara and they too can set things on fire from a distance, make ziplines and so forth.

I really don't think it's too much to ask if Crystal D was to make this game when you're done with the sequel to Rise. You got yourself a nice trilogy then, to be republished into a trilogy box, and then everybody can take some time out by making and playing a Lara Croft game that is totaly different in tone and will be a fresh breath of air for everyone.

So, how about it eh? I will add a pretty please if that is necessary :D

Wall of Honour: these people are the passionate supporters of this proposal:

CheshireBitch
Enzimix
Laralicious
Xopax
Alex Fly
HsuanPo
HRHCroft
Dream
MBog
Laras Dream

WWETombRaider
TheRCroft
GabrielCroft
_KC_
Qualopec21
TheMadModder
pipermaru
ESCachuli
Shirley_Manson
Coffin Fodder

Jorje Croft
laracroftswest
JsotoTRSaga
Patrick star
NoahCrofRaider
Love2Raid
Larson_1988
Enya Brennan
Red Master FFX
thabani33

Sir Launcelot
cara loft
laracroft1997
Uninvited
Orionvalentine
Yuna´s Wish
Sanglyph
anthonycraig
Hazelphoenix
kunoichi

Horus-Goddess
iMakeMyOwnLuck
Metalrocks
PallasAthene
Fabiusco
trfansince96
Mikky
doppeL
Chamayoo
tomekkobialka

Vaskito
paulojr_mam
benjamin_2010
TR1249
SpiralStorm
Shakira Croft
danraid
random0905
Moylen
Retro Raider

sheepman23
dcw123
Annoying Fool
Raider99
lizardspock110
VindicativeBF
Tesla
Revenge
Aragogo
Jonipoon

Lio123
VictorXD
ThatSassyKid
EQuartermain
Lara_Fan1
SrDanielPonces
RoseTyler
moongirl
HeroBrineR
Nausinous

Alex Croft.
TheDetectiveXx
Ryudo
LaraHocusPocus
Tombraider95
lordkaho
quetzalcoatl
ryan91
SamCactus101
**LARA LOVER**

KyleRises
Epic Fumble
Nenya awakens
MegaGamer
larafan1996
jonathanrij
Newraider75
dragoon004
pr0ton
tpboy

Nathan McCree
malferink
Zhyttya
Sifo-Dyas
JACOBryanBURNS
dinne
girlyB
Grid21
suckerpunch
Ceamonks890

New Dwight
GRiannisRaider
SarahPilko
ANoDE
remyma
SRE Croft
Kapu
kabal
Lillie
wearemany

milkshake364
Matie
dantedmc
CrisGer
andre_costa
Ramoram
Jewlz420
tomblover
Error96
Anakzunamuhn

laracroftonline
Vinkula
frankgberry
MicheleMouse
Lara Croft!
ArigatoGozymas
Aminahveggie
Gaelen
anniversarytr11
Waxyyyy

Wooxman
E.Carnby
Edming
jhons0529
CroftManiac05
biscuits
Kurtis6
TheLostSecret
n00basaur
Guuims

Yeauxleaux
PinkyPromise
LAUFan
ActuallyArlow
kiersaint
Samz
Tonyrobinson
Gabi
Eliana Croft
Lily.J

MuruCoder
Nerdy
Ahmier
Ruu11
Alterjano
JuditePrince12
Mutant Messiah
Legends
sikasika18
Topixtor

Ligufaca
DOPE
Ross C
TombRaiderTim
Avalon SARL

http://i.imgur.com/wK2Y4Na.jpg

scremanie 06-12-15 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Cassidy (Post 7504833)
Dearly beloved Crystal Dynamics,

When it comes to post-Underworld games I have decided that I am no longer a Tomb Raider fan. There, I said it. I am a Lara Croft fan instead - of the series Lara Croft.

I have decided that the reboot TR games have nothing to offer me: yes, the gameplay is good, but it's nothing that can't be found elsewhere and the 'Lara Croft' here is not 'my' Lara Croft, not the one that I enjoy.

Well, that's exactly it. She isn't the same. The series has been REBOOTED. This is a completely new character, which CD are definitely not denying, nor are they trying to say she is the exact same. They've stated time and time again, that she is a new Lara. The game mechanics have also been changed, and I for one like them, and this NEW Lara. I'm honestly over people trashing the revamped system/Lara, just because they can't accept that it's not the same as the classics. The classics worked... back in the day. Not in today's standards of gaming. Now I'm in no way trying to be a dick here, but honestly, people need to let it go and just move on. Old Lara isn't dead, hence the Lara Croft series that CD has created to satisfy the fans that dislike TReboot world/Lara, or the fans that just won't let her go.

I for one, still love Classic Lara/TR, but I do not want to see the TReboot universe go back to that system... especially Lara. This NEW character (Lara) is great.

Nigel Cassidy 06-12-15 19:02

You know: if I understand you well you're approving of me because I have 'let it go' in declaring myself no longer a TR fan...

But the way people are often talking about this in terms of: 'this is a REBOOT', 'let it go!', 'move on!'... it kinda comes across as if you're saying that we should just gobble up whatever they shove down our throats and say thank you sir can I have another, regardless of what it is.

That's not how it works: if you like something it's because it caters to a certain demand of yours. When it no longer does that the product is not wanted anymore. And no amount of 'this is a REBOOT' is gonna change that. And it's the most ordinary thing in the world to complain about that and request something that you do like.

CheshireBitch 06-12-15 21:47

I agree with Nigel ! I don't know if they'll make a bigger Lara Croft game but I sure want a new Lara Croft game. Classic Lara + the style of the reboot would be just great. But I don't mind if the new Lara Croft game is more like temple of osiris, I just want a new one ! :)

Metalrocks 07-12-15 00:08

i certainly would like to see more colourful surroundings. having maybe some darker section like a torture chamber or something ritual related stuff would be ok.
was never a fan of the lara croft series. the gameplay just didnt appeal to me and osiris was on top a terrible port on pc that it was impossible to play. but since it was the same mechanics, i cant say i miss anything.
so far i had no chance to play the new titles due xbox release only for the time being but i had to chance to play it at a convention in hong kong with meagan (thanks again meagan :D ). it was nice to look at. at least the demo part i have played but i have seen more videos and it was still dark and i like to see more brighter hubs that is just more appealing and relaxing to look at.

lets see if the third title will be some way brighter and after that, the new once will be again the way we used to play TR like the LAU series.

Nigel Cassidy 07-12-15 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metalrocks (Post 7505178)
lets see if the third title will be some way brighter and after that, the new once will be again the way we used to play TR like the LAU series.

It would take more than that. At least for me; the lack of brightness and colour is but one (well actually two :rolleyes:) of many things.

Enzimix 07-12-15 20:13

agreed! I'll love a more bigger Lara Croft game :D after all that's the only thing left to enjoy for the classic fans... the 20th anniversary is coming... who knows :whi:

Nigel Cassidy 07-12-15 20:32

Thanks for the support. :)

By the way, I'd like to emphasize that this in no way has to influence or tamper with the reboot: the two series could just live side by side under the same 'Lara Croft umbrella' as Scott Amos put it. I'm just asking for the Lara Croft games to grow a bit bigger than the B-games and cellphone games they are now.

CheshireBitch 07-12-15 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Cassidy (Post 7505576)
Thanks for the support. :)

By the way, I'd like to emphasize that this in no way has to influence or tamper with the reboot: the two series could just live side by side under the same 'Lara Croft umbrella' as Scott Amos put it. I'm just asking for the Lara Croft games to grow a bit bigger than the B-games and cellphone games they are now.

Yes, they could release bigger Lara Croft games and we could have Tomb Raider Reboot too at the same time like:

2017: Lara Croft
2019: Tomb Raider
2021 : Lara Croft
2023: Tomb Raider
and so on...

It could be great and as they are two very different type of games, it would be more creative for them.

Nigel Cassidy 07-12-15 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by CheshireBitch (Post 7505620)
Yes, they could release bigger Lara Croft games and we could have Tomb Raider Reboot too at the same time like:

2017: Lara Croft
2019: Tomb Raider
2021 : Lara Croft
2023: Tomb Raider
and so on...

It could be great and as they are two very different type of games, it would be more creative for them.

Yeah, but that's what they're even doing already: with Temple of Osiris spanning the gap between TR9 and TR10, and presumably another such game in late 2016.
The basic ideas are already there; now we only need to encourage them to think bigger.

CheshireBitch 08-12-15 18:14

Yes, I just wanted to say that it could be done even with bigger Lara Croft game. So everyone can be happy and everyone could wait for their own favorite Lara :)

Laralicious 09-12-15 00:01

I really like your idea! I have played the reboot/ RotTR and I have also played LC & the Temple of Osiris, LC: relic run and LC Go! If I could have the Lara Croft series Lara in the Tomb Raider series, then I think that Rise of the Tomb Raider would be almost perfect.

And I feel that it might happen because of how the Lara Croft series has evolved. First, we had GOL and then ToO but now we have the mobile games and the Frozen Omen comics. A bigger game might be possible but only after Rise's sequel is released.

But then I am disappointed that there are 2 Lara Crofts now. It's like the developers felt that they had to create a second Lara through fear of losing a portion of the fanbase. I hope that the two Laras will become 1 Lara but I can't see it. I fear that I might not like Tomb Raider anymore and that's a big deal to me because Tomb Raider has been in my life since I was 7 and I'm 25 now.

And you know what, if it gets the same or more promotion, it would be interesting to compare the sales.

They could keep gameplay features as seen in Lara Croft Go (which must be a pretty good game as it was voted best iOS game this year) like levers, few enemies that suit the location etc, the colours and Lara's attitude from LC&tToO and her confidence and showing off from LC: Relic Run. I'm getting ahead of myself but in short, yes I would like another Lara Croft game, and I would like it to be a fully fledged game.

Nigel Cassidy 09-12-15 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laralicious (Post 7506352)
I really like your idea! I have played the reboot/ RotTR and I have also played LC & the Temple of Osiris, LC: relic run and LC Go! If I could have the Lara Croft series Lara in the Tomb Raider series, then I think that Rise of the Tomb Raider would be almost perfect.

Smashing, welcome to the club :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laralicious (Post 7506352)
But then I am disappointed that there are 2 Lara Crofts now. It's like the developers felt that they had to create a second Lara through fear of losing a portion of the fanbase. I hope that the two Laras will become 1 Lara but I can't see it. I fear that I might not like Tomb Raider anymore and that's a big deal to me because Tomb Raider has been in my life since I was 7 and I'm 25 now.

I doubt they will become one, but if this game is made in the Lara Croft series, then what does it matter if it's not called Tomb Raider: a rose by any other name... :)

Enzimix 09-12-15 00:15

it was very awkward for them to reboot the franchise if they were going to keep the old Lara anyway :confused:

Xopax 15-12-15 16:43

YES! That was the idea i had in mind. It would be amazing if that come true. :)
I think they should aim for something like how TRAE looked like.
It would be a low budget game, but still fun to play.

Nigel Cassidy 15-12-15 18:00

Thanks for the support, and welcome to the Traditional Lara Croft Appreciation Society :D

Alex Fly 15-12-15 18:05

Yes, yes and yes for all of this ! :tmb:

Xopax 15-12-15 20:36

When i first played Relic Run, i was like "Just imagine if that was not a endless running game, it would be like a game made by Core".
Hopefully the 20th anniversary game will be something like that. :D

HsuanPo 17-12-15 14:46

Support this!!!

I don't think that many ppl will see this post though.

I didn't notice that we have a post like this till now.

Nigel Cassidy 17-12-15 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by HsuanPo (Post 7511069)
Support this!!!

I don't think that many ppl will see this post though.

I didn't notice that we have a post like this till now.

Thanks for the support, everybody who has done so and everyone who will in the future...

Well, there's close to 900 viewers already, and on this board the topic stays on top of the list for a long time. I have met Crystal D employees on several occasions, and I will undoubtedly do so again in the future. When I do I will bring this up. And they often browse this board as well...

HRHCroft 18-12-15 23:00

I would definitely be up for an expanded, more 'traditional' style "Lara Croft" game, with elements of "Guardian of Light", "Temple of Osiris", "Relic Run" and "Go" all mixed together. It'd probably be the closest we'd get to a proper "TR" game, for the forseeable future (more's the pity).

Dream 21-12-15 00:09

I'd be up for a tomb raider game that actually has lara croft in it. :D
And tombs..
And exploration, atmosphere, a great melodic soundtrack with classic theme plz
AND ACROBATICS, and a posh no nonsense Lady Lara croft.

(and a braid and having boobs is not a crime thank you very much)

:D
But yes to OP, Yes to this thread.

MBog 21-12-15 06:40

I really want a Lara Croft and the Something of Somethingness again :tmb:

CheshireBitch 21-12-15 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBog (Post 7512886)
I really want a Lara Croft and the Something of Somethingness again :tmb:

LMFAO your title ! :vlol:

I agree, I want it too !

Laras Dream 22-12-15 12:51

Yes, yes, yes and another yes!

Of course CD and SE are businesses and they are here to make money. Though, I totally agree with this. I just don't feel for the reboot Lara, you know, it just isn't Lara. In my personal opinion, I don't think that they needed to change Lara to make the series popular again. People still like bad ass characters; all they needed to do was update the mechanics and create a good interesting story. They didn't need to change her character.

And yeah, time moves on, and that's all well and good for the people who like it, but if you didn't you would be saying the exact same thing as us.

Nigel Cassidy 22-12-15 13:01

We've got our tenth supporter then. :tmb:

It may not seem like much, but usually it's hard to have ten people on this board to agree even on the colour of an orange :D I think this shows that traditional Lara still has a numerous and passionate audience.

WWETombRaider 31-12-15 07:35

I definitely support this idea. GoL and ToO were amazing, and it's nice for TR fans to escape into this alternative series, different from the current instalments. Theses games are a gem. :tmb:

Laras Dream 02-01-16 15:05

All the old Tomb Raider fans seem to be dying off (not literally). It really gets to me to see Lara as she is now. I know that's how business is and Crystal is only rolling with what they were successful with, but I always think that there was no need to change the character so dramatically.

I was replaying AOD over the holidays and all I could think was how close to a masterpiece that game was. Oh well... life isn't always fair. :p

Nigel Cassidy 02-01-16 15:51

I think there's reason to be optimistic about this: Crystal D realized there would be fans of the traditional Lara, and for those people the Lara Croft series was created.

I think that's a great idea, to split up the franchise like that into two different directions. Right now though, one direction is very big and the other is rather small. This proposal is me telling them to think bigger and make bigger Lara Croft games. And the more support for that we can gather the more it may show Crystal D that there is room for expansion.

By the way: isn't the Lara Croft series being blessed with it's own comic book series and novel as well? The existence of these 'auxiliary products' I think shows they're willing to make this series bigger and put effort and resources into it. Now that TR10 has been released it's the Lara Croft series' turn again, so what kind of Lara Croft game are they gonna announce next for november 2016? It might be another isometric game, but who knows: it might be something more ambitious. That's an exciting prospect!

TheRCroft 02-01-16 18:00

I like to think that the LC series is not just something to keep us busy while a main release doesn't come out. Hopefully they improve on the formula that they already have and I definitely love the idea that someone mentioned here of including elements of the mobile LC games, particularly GO, which everyone loved.

HRHCroft 02-01-16 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Cassidy (Post 7518253)
I think there's reason to be optimistic about this: Crystal D realized there would be fans of the traditional Lara, and for those people the Lara Croft series was created.

I always thought it was very telling they didn't have the balls to kill the proper Lara off and start with a totally clean slate.

Watching some gameplay videos of "Go" and "Relic Run" on Youtube I kept finding myself thinking 'This is more what Tomb Raider should be.' Even though the gameplay style in all of the "Lara Croft" games isn't the same as the 3rd person platformer of the mains series, the visuals, the music, the moves, the overall vibe sell it.

This, for example, encapsulates a lot of what I want from a "T.R" game:

larafan25 02-01-16 18:37

I mean if CD make a Tomb Raider game that would be pretty cool. :cool:

Nigel Cassidy 02-01-16 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by HRHCroft (Post 7518308)
Watching some gameplay videos of "Go" and "Relic Run" on Youtube I kept finding myself thinking 'This is more what Tomb Raider should be.' Even though the gameplay style in all of the "Lara Croft" games isn't the same as the 3rd person platformer of the mains series, the visuals, the music, the moves, the overall vibe sell it.

This, for example, encapsulates a lot of what I want from a "T.R" game:

Oh definitely, I was thinking the exact same thing. And if they were going to make a game in third person with the same vibes as Relic Run and Temple of Osiris it might be considered the quintessential Tomb Raider game of modern times... even when it's not titled Tomb Raider :D

I also long for some vehicle sections. Those have always been scarce in Crystal D games compared to the Core D games.

Laras Dream 02-01-16 23:25

Its worth a shot! :)

Nigel Cassidy 03-01-16 00:11

A shame, but I signed it.

Anyway, something that popped into my head: I was thinking that once the reboot's rules of reality are removed the developers can start having fun with some of the elements that have been introduced in the reboot. Case in point: the fatalities. In TR9 and 10 when the prompt appears over an enemy's head reboot Lara runs up to them and shoots them in the face with the pistol or shotgun.

Now imagine traditional Lara doing that: she runs up to the crippled enemy: jumps on his shoulders, does a backflip and fires two shots from the pistols in his brain. + 50 Experience. How's that for a fatality?! :D

Or: she slides over the ground and kicks the enemy into the air, Legend style, and fires two shots while the guy flies through the air. + 50 Experience. Aerial Kill.

Once the shackles of reality are removed, the Crystal D animators can have so much fun unleashing their morbid fantasies! :D

GabrielCroft 03-01-16 01:56

Totally agreed...
I miss the classic Lara.

_KC_ 03-01-16 06:06

The truth is, even GoL & ToO isn't true Lara. I know it sounds cheesy but she really did die with Core Design - She hasn't been Lara since. I'll admit that the Lara Croft series is a much better/more accurate interpretation of Lara Croft than Reboot, not that that is saying much.

Every Crystal game has been a partial reboot of TR and Lara Croft, besides Anniv being practically the same as Legend and obviously the two newest games being very similar to each other.

Legend/Anniv - reboot of Core's Lara
Underworld - reboot of Legend's Lara (even less of Core's influence)
Tomb Raider 9 & 10 - complete reboot (with none of Core's essence left at all)

To me, it feels like they don't know what they're doing and they're just chasing the money.

I've only just got the new Rise of the Tomb Raider game, I've played for a couple hours and I haven't gotten very far. It's almost exactly as I imagined it... So much for Lara becoming a 'hardened Tomb Raider' at the end of the last game. She's EXACTLY the same in this new one! Didn't even start the game with dual pistols (so what was the point of them at the end of TR9?) Meh.

I've always known that with no Core there will be no real Tomb Raider games, but I've stayed with the series regardless (very stupid I know). I could see the fun in LAU and even the new games aren't bad games - but they're not Tomb Raider, not to me anyway.

And to call that girl Lara Croft is a bit insulting to fans of the original, tbh.

Went off on a bit of a rant there... But back on point. I think you're probably right to persue this. An expanded game from the Lara Croft series is probably the closest thing we'll ever get to a Tomb Raider game from Crystal Dynamics.

Nigel Cassidy 03-01-16 11:48

I understand were you're coming from, but I think we need to be realistic about this. If Crystal D is gonna make a third person Lara Croft game it would probably be very much influenced by the TR9 and 10 gameplay features. It would be much like those games but with a traditional Lara paintjob, and to be honest, that's how I would like it... :)

But thanks for your support!

Quote:

Originally Posted by _KC_ (Post 7518557)
I've only just got the new Rise of the Tomb Raider game, I've played for a couple hours and I haven't gotten very far. It's almost exactly as I imagined it... So much for Lara becoming a 'hardened Tomb Raider' at the end of the last game. She's EXACTLY the same in this new one! Didn't even start the game with dual pistols (so what was the point of them at the end of TR9?) Meh.

Yes, I made the exact same points in my TR10 review.

Laras Dream 03-01-16 15:46

Can't believe they took down a petition link... Sometimes the rules here baffle me if I'm completely honest. What harm was a petition doing?

Edit: there's nothing in the rules about petitions...

Qualopec21 04-01-16 00:52

I personally would love to see this style of Lara coming back, this is the Lara Croft we all knew and enjoyed and developed our fandom of the series and Lara herself.

The problem is by trying to make her "realistic" and "relatable" that they are sapping a lot of the fun out of the game, I never played the classics and LAU games to watch a girl cry and whinge about her parents every 5 seconds, I played them to explore tombs for treasures and secrets and have fun with a charismatic, witty and HAPPY character backflipping and summersaulting everywhere like a hyperactive gymnast.

Sometimes in ROTTR I notice brief moments of old school Lara, the happiness and intrigue in her voice when she describes the little trinket or artifact she just found, that scene with Anna in the jail. It's just ruined by the forced meme bow and daddy issues 10 seconds later.

TR2013 and Rise are only Tomb Raider games in the name and Lara is only Lara in name.

I want to go back to backflipping around ancient Egyptian tombs, giant multilayered puzzles like St Francis' Folly. I want to shoot a T-Rex in it's face. Go hunting for artifacts that turn people into dragons and spider mutants. Go exploring around Croft Manor and lock the butler in the freezer.

CD have taken out everything that made the originals and even LAU so recognizable and great (LAU less so but I still think they are good games and have the soul of TR) and replaced it all with this forced stuff that no one thinks is good apart from them.


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