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-   -   New technique (https://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=208076)

teme9 05-12-14 12:45

New technique - UV mapped objects into TRLE using Blender
 
*drum roll* :jmp:

Got something really interesting to show to you guys!


http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...000_Layer3.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...001_Layer2.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...002_Layer1.jpg


huh, just ordinary models for TRLE - right?

NOPE! :p

I did not spend any time at all texturing these models in STRPIX.

YES! You did read correctly! NO TIME WAS SPENT ON TEXTURING THESE! The models are straight imports from Blender to strpix with fake UV mapping and every single texture correctly placed.

How?

Sapper and I have been co-working with the technique of importing UV mapped (fake UV mapped) objects straight from Blender to strpix without needing to texture the models at all! Sapper has been working really hard to make this happen based on the UV mapping technique I presented while ago and now it is possible because of his amazing work!! :jmp: Give a huge clap for him! :yah:

Amazing things coming to the TRLE community :jmp:

Still being tested and developed but I would guess that the release is in near future!
(and yes, tutorials are also coming as soon as possible once I have time to write them!)

(I made a separate thread for this so it won't pollute the old Strpix thread, object thread or my thread. This might also be good place to ask specific questions about the technique)

The technique indeed uses Blender, but you can basically just import any model with UV mapping information and make texture for it using blender. You don't necessary need to learn to use Blender and all of its features, but I would recommend it highly :) The tutorials will feature a simple workflow in which you will be able to process the textures into correct format.

While waiting for the tutorial and the new piece of software to be available I would recommend taking a look at Blender:
Blender basics by BornCG (his tutorials might have bad sound at the first few videos, but they are probably one of the best tutorials out there!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmOF...6307E237BB7FF6

Get Blender:
http://www.blender.org/

teme9 05-12-14 13:06

Additional information FAQ - Coming soon!
 
DOWNLOAD
http://www.tombraiderforums.com/show...8&postcount=35


TUTORIALS

Converting .OBJ UV mapped into TRLE compatible format by Baratheon
http://www.tombraiderforums.com/show...9&postcount=66

Getting scale correct in Blender (Matching units in Blender to TRLE)
http://www.tombraiderforums.com/show...&postcount=133


FAQ

Let's say I want to create a super detailed room - just one room. If I baked lighting into the textures directly from Blender, will it still work or no? I haven't worked with baked lighting too much.

Yes, it is possible.

In theory it is possible to have whole level to have GI, shadows and everything in the level. If you bake whole levels textures this will result in huge amounts of unique texture infos so the level will be extremely short. TRNG has scripts that can rise the limit of addiotional texinfos.

Sorry, but it's possible to use 3DS Max instead of Blender in this new technique?

Not yet possible, but the might be in the future. is still working hard on the importer for StrPix based on the assimp http://assimp.sourceforge.net/ library and reports progress for converting UV information.

Assimp can import many 3D formats including 3DS.

Caesum 05-12-14 13:18

I'm waiting for this impatiently. I wanted to learn meta2tr, but I think I need to learn 3ds max better first lol. Or blender. Actually I'm thinking about blender now.

Anyway this would be like a milestone in TR community. Just imagine how easy it would be to make new organic objects now, like Lara, animals. Oh my!

-Roli- 05-12-14 13:20

Wooow! You're amazing, guys! :jmp::jmp::jmp:

Krystian 05-12-14 13:22

Am I dreaming? Seriously, somebody pinch me because I don't believe this is real! :eek:

Before I pass out with excitement, I just wanted to say how delighted I am. I've waited forever for this I think. :cln:
All those years of using Blender instead of Meta have finally paid off. :whi:

Oh, and a big congratulations and thank you to both Sapper and you, Teme. :gki:

*finally faints*

teme9 05-12-14 13:27

Thanks :hug:

This is indeed big thing for the whole TRLE community!

This technique will make texturing a lot more easier but as everything this technique has its bad sides too!

Generating the textures for each polygon will cause huge amount of textures so while modelling every single polygon you create needs to be thought out - optimizing is important now more than ever! The less the better ;)

I would also add that this is a addition to the texturing tools - it won't and it should not replace the old methods totally! Combining this method with manual texturing will ensure that the result is low in unique texture amounts and great in visual quality! :D

matrix54 05-12-14 13:27

Stupid question:

Let's say I want to create a super detailed room - just one room. If I baked lighting into the textures directly from Blender, will it still work or no? I haven't worked with baked lighting too much.

teme9 05-12-14 13:30

Yes, it is possible. :D

In theory it is possible to have whole level to have GI, shadows and everything in the level. If you bake whole levels textures this will result in huge amounts of unique texture infos so the level will be extremely short.

Combimining wise use of vertex lighting and baked light is the best "golden way" to have good quality and not so short levels. I would still recommend not to bake every single texture with lighting information though :D

**edit..

I think I could actually make a small test room of it :D

matrix54 05-12-14 13:48

It'd be great for a Resident Evil Style level, no doubt. Smaller rooms with highly amplified details within a smaller area, but gameplay isn't scarified because... well... it's just build that way. :vlol:


Edit:
Actually, if the object was then Meta2TR'd... think of the possibilities. :cln:

teme9 05-12-14 13:55

Don't go too nuts! :p

There is indeed a lot things that is possible with baking but I wouldn't recommend using it too much - too many textureinfos :o

A_De 05-12-14 13:56

OMG! Can't wait to try this new method, i have so many objects to convert to wad. But i never used blender before, hope it's not too hard to understand :D

matrix54 05-12-14 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by teme9 (Post 7228508)
Don't go too nuts! :p

There is indeed a lot things that is possible with baking but I wouldn't recommend using it too much - too many textureinfos :o

Believe me, I have no plans on attempting anything like that. I'm just thinking of all the possibilities. :p

Xopax 05-12-14 14:05

Sorry, but it's possible to use 3DS Max instead of Blender in this new technique? :o

teme9 05-12-14 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by A_De (Post 7228509)
OMG! Can't wait to try this new method, i have so many objects to convert to wad. But i never used blender before, hope it's not too hard to understand :D

It's not that hard. The tutorials will have most of the things needed covered. Only importing stuff might have some differences depending object and format etc. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by matrix54 (Post 7228510)
Believe me, I have no plans on attempting anything like that. I'm just thinking of all the possibilities. :p

:p :vlol:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xopax (Post 7228514)
Sorry, but it's possible to use 3DS Max instead of Blender in this new technique? :o

Technically yes, but the scripts that make it work are tied into Blender. The texture converting (baking) part should be possible in 3ds Max but I have no earlier experience on baking textures in 3ds max so I can't shed light on that part much. The part that needs to be done in Blender isn't that long or too complicated for this method!

Krystian 05-12-14 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by A_De (Post 7228509)
OMG! Can't wait to try this new method, i have so many objects to convert to wad. But i never used blender before, hope it's not too hard to understand :D

Well, the learning curve is a bit different than with other 3d programs like 3ds Max, but it's not really hard. Once you get used to the interface, it gets really simple. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xopax (Post 7228514)
Sorry, but it's possible to use 3DS Max instead of Blender in this new technique? :o

Blender is free, so all it will take is learning how to use the program (which, as i've said above, isn't hard :) ).

SrDanielPonces 05-12-14 18:21

OH-MY-GOD

This made my day! :jmp:

I hope as well that sapper can make it work on 3ds max. o:

Lakota 05-12-14 18:23

Christmas before time, well done both of you.:jmp:

Raider99 05-12-14 18:38

This sounds amazing! :tmb:
Great job, both of you! :hug: Just imagine what you can do with this, it would be MUCH MUCH easier to make objects.

teme9 05-12-14 19:29

I'm glad that people are so happy :D

And really most of the credits goes for Sapper - he made it possible :tmb:

THOR2010 05-12-14 19:43

im betting much easier to texture outfits as well

Quote:

Originally Posted by teme9 (Post 7228486)
Generating the textures for each polygon will cause huge amount of textures so while modelling every single polygon you create needs to be thought out - optimizing is important now more than ever! The less the better ;)

too bad theres no way to drastically increase the text info limit

tomb2player 05-12-14 20:03

Hey i have question: I noticed teme9 that on your screenshot all models have similar number of polygons and vertices. Original Core Design meshes are similar. But my meshes almost always has about half more vertices than polygons, for example 300 vertex and 150 polly. Am i doing something wrong? :D

sapper 05-12-14 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by teme9 (Post 7228486)
This technique will make texturing a lot more easier but as everything this technique has its bad sides too!

Generating the textures for each polygon will cause huge amount of textures so while modelling every single polygon you create needs to be thought out - optimizing is important now more than ever! The less the better ;)

I would also add that this is a addition to the texturing tools - it won't and it should not replace the old methods totally! Combining this method with manual texturing will ensure that the result is low in unique texture amounts and great in visual quality! :D

If you use no padding you can reduce the number of texinfos but the results may not be as good as with padding.

After you have the textured object in its own wad and then open and save with Wadmerger the duplicate texinfos will be consolidated.

However, Wadmerger rearranges all the textures and doesn't pack them as well as Blender so you end up with more than one texture page.


Quote:

Originally Posted by SrDanielPonces (Post 7228648)
OH-MY-GOD

This made my day! :jmp:

I hope as well that sapper can make it work on 3ds max. o:

Well I don't plan to since I only have access to gMax.

But don't worry.

TurboPascal is still working hard on the importer for StrPix based on the assimp http://assimp.sourceforge.net/ library and reports progress for converting UV information.

Assimp can import many 3D formats including 3DS.

I mainly coded a separate addon for Blender since at the moment assimp cannot import the latest version of .blend files.

Mordyga 05-12-14 23:49

[Mod edit: oversized gif removed]

I can't. That is a nice christmas gift for us! :hug:

teme9 06-12-14 11:17

Thanks for the support!

Quote:

Originally Posted by THOR2010 (Post 7228691)
im betting much easier to texture outfits as well



too bad theres no way to drastically increase the text info limit


TRNG has a small piece of script that can make the engine accept more texture infos If I am not totally wrong :D If I remember correctly it will raise the amount of texture infos to a 32000.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomb2player (Post 7228698)
Hey i have question: I noticed teme9 that on your screenshot all models have similar number of polygons and vertices. Original Core Design meshes are similar. But my meshes almost always has about half more vertices than polygons, for example 300 vertex and 150 polly. Am i doing something wrong? :D

You're not doing anything wrong! I would only guess that you use more polygons and vertices than I do. I have a quite "strong" background from mobile game graphics and I like to optimize my models so that there is no more polygons and vertices than they do need. I also use textures to fake the shape so I don't model every single detail in 3d :D This is something that you can learn by checking other peoples work and especially checking how other people (as for example in polycount.com) do their lowpoly work! :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sapper (Post 7228975)
If you use no padding you can reduce the number of texinfos but the results may not be as good as with padding.

After you have the textured object in its own wad and then open and save with Wadmerger the duplicate texinfos will be consolidated.

However, Wadmerger rearranges all the textures and doesn't pack them as well as Blender so you end up with more than one texture page.




Well I don't plan to since I only have access to gMax.

But don't worry.

TurboPascal is still working hard on the importer for StrPix based on the assimp http://assimp.sourceforge.net/ library and reports progress for converting UV information.

Assimp can import many 3D formats including 3DS.

I mainly coded a separate addon for Blender since at the moment assimp cannot import the latest version of .blend files.

Thanks for clarifying this! :tmb:

tomb2player 07-12-14 01:30

I can't believe this - I exported mesh to .dxf format then imported again and... it drastically decreased number of vertices, now I have similar values to polygons :D .
You wrote couple of days ago that strpix mqo importer don't merge correctly vertices together... maybe this was the problem. It didn't merged for example 3 vertices and counted it as 3 separated :D

sapper 08-12-14 01:30

In the object Menu in Metasequoia is an option to join close vertices.

The menu actually says "Join closed vertices".

How did you mesh get the separate vertices?

Titak 08-12-14 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomb2player (Post 7230815)
I can't believe this - I exported mesh to .dxf format then imported again and... it drastically decreased number of vertices, now I have similar values to polygons :D

Then it simply means the vertices hadn't been merged.
And merging means sort of glued together to form just one vertice, instead of two or more vertices occupying the same space.

tomb2player 08-12-14 13:49

Sapper, I am importing mesh as .mqo to Strpix and as I said, vertices are not merged, at least not all of them. But when I export again mesh to .dxf format and then import back, it gets fixed. I didn't knew about option you described, maybe this could help as well :D

EDIT: I forgot to say that it happens only with meshes made by me from scratch. I don't use in metasequia any option to glue vertices together so maybe here is the problem, I don't know :D

Titak 08-12-14 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomb2player (Post 7231815)
I don't use in metasequia any option to glue vertices together so maybe here is the problem, I don't know :D

I do know. :p
If you don't merge (=join) vertices in Meta, they won't be joined either when exporting/saving the object. Unless you export as dfx ofcourse.

I now prefer using mqo files because you can keep the texturing intact when wanting to make small changes to an already existing object. :D


Going oftopic by now...
This new method sounds very promising.
I don't know anything about Blender, so I'll have to go and learn about it.
Either that or I'll switch to UV-mapping most of my objects when Meta2TR-ing my level. :D

tomb2player 08-12-14 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titak (Post 7232009)
I now prefer using mqo files because you can keep the texturing intact when wanting to make small changes to an already existing object. :D

When mesh is exported and imported again in dxf format, which was previously imported as .mqo, there is no need to retexture because all textures stay intact :)

Titak 08-12-14 17:30

Ah, okay, so it is the exporting from STRPix and then importing into Meta that destroys the texturing then.
Still, I'll stick to MQO files because with them I don't have to worry about getting those export values right. :D

Laras Boyfr. 10-12-14 22:21

Woah, just checking in again seeing stuff like this happen. Amazing job Teemu and sapper, you've just revolutionized the TRLE world a bit more. :)
Hope some great level builders put it into use soon so we can see it in action :D

sharalex 15-12-14 20:57

Very pleased to see this bit of news as I've been using Blender for years now, but only recently been attempting to build objects/environments in it rather than Meta.

Shauni 15-12-14 21:41

Any updates on this? It looks magical :B

sapper 16-12-14 00:35

Well teme9's rough tutorial is buried in the StrPix thread but may not be available anymore.

http://www.tombraiderforums.com/show...&postcount=224

My Blender addon is here.

Extract to Blender's scripts/addons folder.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/25...zca/sapper.zip


You don't have to create a lowpoly mesh from a high poly mesh if you have a lowpoly UV mapped object.

Import your lowpoly object and make a duplicate.

Then use lightmap unpack to create new UVs for the duplicate.

Then do the bake from the original UV mapped object to the duplicate object and save the image created for the duplicate.

Use my addon to export the duplicate object to StrPix MQO.

Please adjust the scale in the save file screen.

Default scale saves object 100 times bigger than in Blender.

Then use my addon to export TextureAdd .rec file for the duplicate object.

Create a single mesh wad in Wadmerger.

Open the wad in TextureAdd.

Using TextureAdd, import the image you saved for the duplicate into page 1.

Using TextureAdd, import the .rec file and overwrite existing texinfos and save the wad.

In StrPix import the MQO exported from Blender and save.

Hopefully the mesh is textured correctly.

Remember limits for StrPix. 1500 vertices and 1500 polygons.

teme9 16-12-14 06:00

At first it seems that there are multiple steps but once you get the hang of it, it is quite easy and fast! :D (Way faster than older texturing methods!)

I still want to create a easy to follow tutorial for this matter but I don't have really much of a freetime currently. Would a video or written tutorial with screenshots be better?

Titak 16-12-14 10:32

I always prefer a written tutorial with images.
Because that way the image is still and you can take your time reading the text or bits of the text and carefully looking at the images.

Shauni 16-12-14 16:35

Thank you! I hadn't realized it was already out for everyone to use. :D

Well I'm working on this as well speak. Currently I'm stuck on some Blender basics as I haven't used the program in years. lol. I've got a low poly object with the texture it came with. Only problem is the texture isn't aligned quite right. I saved it and thought I would try a different object, only now my "materials" section has disappeared and I don't know how to get it back. I can't use a texture without applying a material first. U_U I dislike the learning curve phase of new programs. xP

teme9 16-12-14 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titak (Post 7238184)
I always prefer a written tutorial with images.
Because that way the image is still and you can take your time reading the text or bits of the text and carefully looking at the images.

I think I will do a written one then :p

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shauni (Post 7238493)
Thank you! I hadn't realized it was already out for everyone to use. :D

Well I'm working on this as well speak. Currently I'm stuck on some Blender basics as I haven't used the program in years. lol. I've got a low poly object with the texture it came with. Only problem is the texture isn't aligned quite right. I saved it and thought I would try a different object, only now my "materials" section has disappeared and I don't know how to get it back. I can't use a texture without applying a material first. U_U I dislike the learning curve phase of new programs. xP

There's always troubles at the beginning! It's worth it - believe me!

Can you post a screenshot of the UI of Blender? I could be able to help you get back your material panel :)

Shauni 16-12-14 17:58

I have been able to get my materials panel to come back by going under user preferences and checking the box for it to show up again (not sure why it ever left).

Okay, now I've added the blender export-MQO-file into the scripts/add ons folder but it does not show up in Blender or under the User Preferences add ons section. :ponder: I also downloaded a .mesh importer/exporter and it isn't showing up either.


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