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Old 05-06-19, 08:51   #11
b122251
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The braid in TR2 doesn't really use all that much logic or memory. I think both the PS1 and the Saturn hardware would have been easily capable of producing the braid. The braid was probably really only limited by the time of the programmers. I think they simply didn't have the time to complete the braid by TR1. There are genuine limits to the hardware though, but the games make use of them differently. Take for example texture tiles. Tomb Raider 1 on the Playstation always used exactly thirteen texture tiles. No more, no less. On Tomb Raider II they made the number of texture tiles variable. Also, take for example rooms. On TR1 on the playstation, every vertex in a room was 8 bytes. On TR2 they only used 4 bytes. They reduced the size by using only five bits per axis. As a result of the space they saved on each vertex, they could have more rooms in the same memory space. The PS1 didn't have a hard there-can-only-be-this-many-objects limit, rather it had a memory limit, and how many of any type of object can be placed in there depended on the skill and decisions made by the programmers.
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Old 05-06-19, 08:57   #12
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^ I've always wondered about this, how much computing and hardware resources did it actually require, seeing how both 1 and 2 ran on the same hardware. The braid is one of the things about first TRs I've always been impressed with... ofc its a bit glitchy here and there, but wasn't it the first attempt at realistic hair simulation ever in a video game???

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^That is one of the ugliest things I've ever seen. No, a solid, static giant log sticking out of Lara's head would not have been a fine alternative. How can anyone think that abomination looks good.

Even in a still frame it looks awful due to it just being a thick braid stuck to Lara's loose hair before the bun; it would have at least needed tighter pulled hair like TR2.
true

i don't get why people want to play with the boner braid mod
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Old 05-06-19, 09:13   #13
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Originally Posted by b122251 View Post
The braid in TR2 doesn't really use all that much logic or memory. I think both the PS1 and the Saturn hardware would have been easily capable of producing the braid. The braid was probably really only limited by the time of the programmers. I think they simply didn't have the time to complete the braid by TR1. There are genuine limits to the hardware though, but the games make use of them differently. Take for example texture tiles. Tomb Raider 1 on the Playstation always used exactly thirteen texture tiles. No more, no less. On Tomb Raider II they made the number of texture tiles variable. Also, take for example rooms. On TR1 on the playstation, every vertex in a room was 8 bytes. On TR2 they only used 4 bytes. They reduced the size by using only five bits per axis. As a result of the space they saved on each vertex, they could have more rooms in the same memory space. The PS1 didn't have a hard there-can-only-be-this-many-objects limit, rather it had a memory limit, and how many of any type of object can be placed in there depended on the skill and decisions made by the programmers.
Very interesting. Does that mean that TRII had slightly reduced graphics in some ways, but it just went unnoticed?
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Old 05-06-19, 10:26   #14
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Originally Posted by Dustie View Post
^ I've always wondered about this, how much computing and hardware resources did it actually require, seeing how both 1 and 2 ran on the same hardware. The braid is one of the things about first TRs I've always been impressed with... ofc its a bit glitchy here and there, but wasn't it the first attempt at realistic hair simulation ever in a video game???



true

i don't get why people want to play with the boner braid mod
I think TR2 had more optimization when it comes to using memory.

Same, that braid is just... Awful.
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Old 05-06-19, 11:25   #15
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Also remember that only about 6 people (Could be wrong) made TR1, after the success of the game they would have been able to hire more team members and code more efficiently .
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Old 05-06-19, 12:41   #16
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Very interesting. Does that mean that TRII had slightly reduced graphics in some ways, but it just went unnoticed?
No, it just means they managed to save same information more efficiently. TR2 engine was greatly improved and far better optimised, resulting in making it possible to do more within the same memory space available.
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Old 05-06-19, 12:49   #17
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Very interesting. Does that mean that TRII had slightly reduced graphics in some ways, but it just went unnoticed?
No. But what it does mean is that a vertex cannot be placed anywhere anymore. As you know, the game works on a grid system, where the game world is divided into blocks. The size of these blocks is 1024 on each side, and on the Y-axis, the world is divided into what are called "clicks" and each of those is 256 high. In TR1 it was possible to define a vertex anywhere in space, meaning that you could have a vertex in the middle of a block. In TR2, vertices can only be on the edge of a block. Effectively, on TR2, a vertex can be placed on 1024 or 2048 but not in between on the X and Z axis, and on the Y axis the same applies but in jumps of 256. This was not a problem, as there is usually no need to define a vertex in any other place. However, TR2 is also limited in room size, specifically, a vertex can not be lower than 7936 (7 and three quarter blocks) below the ceiling of a room, since it only uses 5 bits for the Y-axis, and that's its maximum value.

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Old 05-06-19, 15:32   #18
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Oh I didn't know that. So I guess you could say that after TR1 and starting with TR2 they "set in stone" the grid system, at least on the visual side of things?
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Old 05-06-19, 16:24   #19
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No. But what it does mean is that a vertex cannot be placed anywhere anymore.
I understand this is only regarding the level geometry? And what about TR3-4 engines? In TRLE via using meta2tr you can create custom level geometry that might in no way respect the grid. Does it mean this was changed for TR4 engine?
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Old 05-06-19, 18:01   #20
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Oh I didn't know that. So I guess you could say that after TR1 and starting with TR2 they "set in stone" the grid system, at least on the visual side of things?
On Playstation anyway. On the PC they didn't change the vertex size.
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