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Old 09-10-19, 14:15   #81
Vaskito
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Originally Posted by Dennis's Mom View Post
That's fine. But that blows the whole "Yamatai stays undiscovered because Himiko" plotline. It was discovered--repeatedly--by the Japanese who built an entire base there. That they wanted to exploit the island doesn't change the fact they came and went at will. Bringing concrete, construction supplies, equiptment, workers--all of that didn't arrive on one boat.

2013 is just a mess of inconsistencies that don't really hold up under examination.
They didn't come and went at will. They came, and died. If it was under investigation by some company, it makes sense that anything about it isn't public, especially when

1) that company was investigating a potetial weapon for world hazard

2) nobody who went to the Island survived to make it public

2013 is explained well enough to me, within the fantasy it's representing, and it's the best it has been done so, in regards to the whole franchise until that point.

Unless by examination, you mean everything needs to be real, and there's no place for plot devices, on a game that shows a spirit goddess possessing a body, and controlling the weather
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Old 09-10-19, 15:09   #82
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They didn't come and went at will. They came, and died. If it was under investigation by some company, it makes sense that anything about it isn't public, especially when

1) that company was investigating a potetial weapon for world hazard

2) nobody who went to the Island survived to make it public

2013 is explained well enough to me, within the fantasy it's representing, and it's the best it has been done so, in regards to the whole franchise until that point.

Unless by examination, you mean everything needs to be real, and there's no place for plot devices, on a game that shows a spirit goddess possessing a body, and controlling the weather
Of course they came and went. One doesn't build what they build on an exploratory trip. They came, saw what was there, said, "hey, we can use this!" and either left to tell others what they needed to study it or built the radio tower and transmitted it and others came to bring what they needed.

When a story contains obvious fantasy, that doesn't mean the real world doesn't need to behave like the real world. Their explanation doesn't pass any sniff test, and it wouldn't have been difficult to write one that does, which is my problem with so much of 2013 (and Rise and Shadow. Don't get me going on the ridiculous Blood Ties premise.) They simply didn't care enough to examine what they were writing (contradicting themselves constantly) to try to make it coherent.

It's the execution, not the ideas. There's just this jumble of idea they threw against a wall that when you pay attention at all (I only played 2013 once) they don't agree with each other. *shrugs*
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Old 09-10-19, 16:43   #83
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From my perspective, itís not as bad as youíre making it out to be.

Sure, there are some inconsistencies if you look over it with a really critical point of view, and using real life over it being a game in the first place. Being a game, you need to give it a bit of freedom, otherwise it you wonít be able to appreciate it and have fun. IMO, with any form of fictional story telling, you need to look at it open minded.

In 2013ís case, there are multiple factors that could potentially come into play, like the example Iíve previously given, that only one entity knew of the island and its powers, and were investigating it to create a weapon. They did not get out of the island, but sure, they could make outward communications with their team at land to bring more material, knowing they wouldnít be able to go back once they reach the island.

You harshly call them bad writers, and bad story, whereas I, on the other hand, think the reboot games have a really good and intelligent way of translating real life myths into the reality of their games, backing it up beautifully with the lore around it.

Achieving perfection in the story telling is almost impossible. Thatís the reality. Itís almost impossible write a flawless story, especially when you have to make a one that translates into a game, and gameplay. I think they do damn good job with the work theyíve put out, especially in regards to what I mentioned above. It is what it is.
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Old 09-10-19, 22:02   #84
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From my perspective, itís not as bad as youíre making it out to be.

Sure, there are some inconsistencies if you look over it with a really critical point of view, and using real life over it being a game in the first place. Being a game, you need to give it a bit of freedom, otherwise it you wonít be able to appreciate it and have fun. IMO, with any form of fictional story telling, you need to look at it open minded.

In 2013ís case, there are multiple factors that could potentially come into play, like the example Iíve previously given, that only one entity knew of the island and its powers, and were investigating it to create a weapon. They did not get out of the island, but sure, they could make outward communications with their team at land to bring more material, knowing they wouldnít be able to go back once they reach the island.

You harshly call them bad writers, and bad story, whereas I, on the other hand, think the reboot games have a really good and intelligent way of translating real life myths into the reality of their games, backing it up beautifully with the lore around it.

Achieving perfection in the story telling is almost impossible. Thatís the reality. Itís almost impossible write a flawless story, especially when you have to make a one that translates into a game, and gameplay. I think they do damn good job with the work theyíve put out, especially in regards to what I mentioned above. It is what it is.
The Last of Us tells a nearly perfect story. It's problems are when they force unreality for gameplay--like trapping the characters in areas where in real life you could just walk around the problem. God of War games, Batman Arkham series also tell very coherent stories that make sense. It can happen if writers care (are allowed to care?) about such things.

The basic idea for TReboot wasn't bad. They just didn't think about it deeply enough to make it a good story. So many ideas really have zero point to what's going on. If you liked it, fine. For me, it was a hot mess of really not making any sense (and bad gameplay) and as a writer, I could have fixed it all because that's what storytelling is.
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Old 10-10-19, 00:36   #85
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Of course they came and went. One doesn't build what they build on an exploratory trip. They came, saw what was there, said, "hey, we can use this!" and either left to tell others what they needed to study it or built the radio tower and transmitted it and others came to bring what they needed.

When a story contains obvious fantasy, that doesn't mean the real world doesn't need to behave like the real world. Their explanation doesn't pass any sniff test, and it wouldn't have been difficult to write one that does, which is my problem with so much of 2013 (and Rise and Shadow. Don't get me going on the ridiculous Blood Ties premise.) They simply didn't care enough to examine what they were writing (contradicting themselves constantly) to try to make it coherent.

It's the execution, not the ideas. There's just this jumble of idea they threw against a wall that when you pay attention at all (I only played 2013 once) they don't agree with each other. *shrugs*
I thought they implied in those documents found in the WWII base that the supernatural stuff preventing people from leaving the island only started up after they broke into the older ruins.

Japan always knew the island was there, what they didn't know was that it was Yamatai. It was used as an island base in WWII, then they lost contact with it after the people there disturbed the Oni, and after their surrender never followed up on it due to the following power shifts and government upheaval.

I could be wrong, but I didn't think there was anything wrong with the worldbuilding of TR2013 aside from the fact it was mostly in optional documents. It was the modern day plot that was poorly executed in my opinion.
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Old 10-10-19, 02:08   #86
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The supernatural weather causing ships and aircraft to wreck on the island and the prevention of people leaving the island started as far back as Hoshi interrupting the ritual, so causing Himiko to be trapped in a decaying body and becoming enraged.

According to the link Vaskito gave, during WWII, the Japanese military did somehow occupy the island, but could not leave. It does not say how they successfully managed to reach the island, perhaps they didn't exactly, but there were enough survivors and cargo from their ships for them to build. I can only go by that Wiki page atm, perhaps the documents elaborate.

I do agree with DM on this one. All those buildings, the radio tower, the Gondola system, the lifts and other equipment, all of it associated with the Japanese research, it would have involved getting tonnes of materials there, a lot of man power, across months, even years to complete. There's only so much 'it's a game-ism' you can take before it falls apart somewhat. I feel like CD had this 'cool' idea to add the war time buildings etc on the island, without really thinking of the finer details.
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Old 10-10-19, 08:55   #87
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I don't think there's a problem because the island have so many wreck ships and even an aircraft carrier etc It's not said how many times they stayed on the island outside months of research.

Every plot from every movies or stories could be easily torn appart.
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Old 10-10-19, 09:10   #88
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Let's all just agree that Vaskito is wrong as usual and keep going with our lives 😌
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Old 10-10-19, 11:55   #89
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^ Or we can have a respectful discussion as was happening.
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Old 10-10-19, 14:23   #90
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How come Himiko can crush planes and ships with the weather but cannot protect herself from a whiny teenage girl?
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