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Old 10-05-20, 05:02   #31
XXIIXX
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My second favorite is Palace Midas. As much fun as it is to deliberately jump onto the hand and turn to gold, am I the only one who accidentally climbs up on the hand way too often when trying to play the level properly and turn the lead bars into gold?
Been there, unfortunately
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Old 23-05-20, 07:35   #32
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Greece is kind of a mess in general.

Chances of coming across a Catholic monastery are rare (not to mention one that has an ancient Greek temple underneath it but that's neither here nor there), Midas was from Phrygia (present-day Turkey) so his palace wouldn't have been in Greece, the Colosseum is obviously in Italy and there are absolutely no gorillas or crocodiles native in Greece

And while yes it's a game and not everything has to make sense Greece is way too wack to take seriously.

And about the puzzle, I thought it was relatively easy as well.
What makes me laugh about Greece is how long it takes to get to the Scion from St Francis Folly.

Now look at Egypt. If you merged all three levels into one which is what they are meant to be anyway you would notice that the end of the Obelisk of Khamoon takes place near the beginning of the City of Khamoon with those two doors that lead to the Sanctuary of Scion level. The end of the that level with the Larson fight is actually along the passage near the start of the level.

If lets say you could blast or doors open you could get to the Scion in a very shot amount of time yet of course you actually have to instead go the long way around.
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Old 23-05-20, 14:50   #33
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e, the Colosseum is obviously in Italy and there are absolutely no gorillas or crocodiles native in Greece
I've always considered the level Colloseum to be intended as just a collosseum like arena of sorts (there is no the in front of it in the level title after all). So basically just a random amphitheater with gladiator fights that there were several of in this part of the world back then, rather than being intended to literally be the famous landmark found in Rome (that one makes an appearance in Chronicles after all).

As for the lions, gorillas and crocodiles I like to think of them as the offspring of imported exotic animals that were once used in animal fights vs gladiators in the Colosseum arena that have kind of just multiplied and taken over the place through the centuries since. At least that way it makes more sense to me.
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Old 24-05-20, 09:46   #34
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I mean, it would have made a lot more sense to have an actual amphitheater then. Plus I think the "gladiators fight exotic animals" (lions are the only species that make sense because there actually were lions in Greece but eventually got extinct) concept is Roman and the whole thing screams of "We can't tell the difference between Greek and Roman concepts and we're too lazy to research" , especially when taking into account the Catholic monastery, the Phrygian palace, the Roman name instead of the Greek version of Poseidon's name plus a Scandinavian god thrown in as well... which is a shame because later games all have much more fleshed out myths and you can tell they put in actual effort to research this stuff which is weird considering the much shorter development time compared to the original.
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Old 24-05-20, 10:14   #35
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Yeah I agree there is some weird stuff going on with TR1 Greece for sure. With that many skewed facts you'd almost suspect it being deliberate?
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Old 28-05-20, 13:49   #36
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St. Francis Folly will always be my favorite! Not quite sure what Thor has to do with Greek mythology, but whatever. Speaking of the Thor room, why do so many people have so much trouble with the lightning part in the beginning? All you gotta do is run around the metal plates and jump over the last one. And to get back out just do it in reverse.
I always believed that these 'gods' were important Atlanteans. Thor might led some people to present Scandinavia, while Midas joined Tihocan to Greece. It's a memorial in their honor, while showing the Norse pantheon also originated from Atlantis.
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Old 28-05-20, 14:58   #37
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I always believed that these 'gods' were important Atlanteans. Thor might led some people to present Scandinavia, while Midas joined Tihocan to Greece. It's a memorial in their honor, while showing the Norse pantheon also originated from Atlantis.
That concept sounds nice, but Toby pretty much confirmed that he didn't know the gods names and couldn't be bothered in Anniversary xD

Maybe he was the problrm because Core had done excellent job with researching the myths they were building the next games / levels after, without him.
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Old 28-05-20, 22:35   #38
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That concept sounds nice, but Toby pretty much confirmed that he didn't know the gods names and couldn't be bothered in Anniversary xD

Maybe he was the problrm because Core had done excellent job with researching the myths they were building the next games / levels after, without him.
Can you link me to the source please?

If that would be the case, it's extremely lazy (and stupid) to make a game about ancient civilizations and not bother with such basic facts. I love the classics, but they never really bothered with a consistent story-line.

Back on topic:

The best designed level is... Caves!
So, hear me out. The first level has a couple of near-impossible rules to follow:

-Nothing too difficult, since players will still struggle with movement.
-Something challenging, since it needs to show Lara's potential and represent the rest of the game.
-Nothing too epic, since it's just the opening level.
-Something epic, since it needs to sell the rest of the game.

So we have caves. Nothing super-natural or over the top, since you can't have a major archaeological discovery in the first level, yet it has the epic gateway to Vilcabamba. You battle a lot of animals, with the bear as a mini-boss, yet it feels more epic than it actually is. Secrets require some extra skill, though nothing too special and most important: EVERY room is memorable:

-The wooden fence, giving a preview of the great gateway.
-The pillar, overgrown with greenery.
-The large area with the two bridges.
-The small gap with the bear below.
-The epic gate-area to the next level.

Considering these rules, the execution is perfect. The ambiance really draws you in. It has perfect innovation, since well, it's the first level and the design follows all the rules set for the level.

It's not the best level in the game (far from), but it's the best designed considering the harsh limitations and demands put on the level.

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Old 28-05-20, 22:49   #39
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Can you link me to the source please?

If that would be the case, it's extremely lazy (and stupid) to make a game about ancient civilizations and not bother with such basic facts. I love the classics, but they never really bothered with a consistent story-line.
It's in the in-game commentary for Anniversary, I think in the one for the Poseidon room, Jason Botta says that they renamed the room from Neptune to Poseidon, the proper name, and Botta jokingly calls out Toby on not knowing the correct names.

It's weird to me because Peru and Egypt don't have any similar instances. You have the myth of the city of Vilcabamba, a real-life location, that's been as accurately represented as possible and then the rest is made up, there's no secret valley populated by dinosaurs in any Inca myths as far as I know. And Egypt is fully made up, Khamoon doesn't exist. I don't know why they didn't do the same for Greece, have a completely made up location, maybe with a few real-life references, that just "looks" and "feels" Greek and decided to mix Catholic Saints, Norse gods, Roman gods, Greek legends, African animals and Roman fighting arenas all together xD
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Old 28-05-20, 23:04   #40
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And Egypt is fully made up, Khamoon doesn't exist.
Thanks for the reference!

I think the comparison between TR1 and TRLR Egypt is really interested. TR1 Egypt feels like the result of a single brainstorm session: Mummies, hieroglyphs, pyramids, Sphinxes etc. It's not even linked to a specific era or location. In TRLR on the other hand you can clearly see they did a lot of research, showing different culture's and time periods.

(That said, TR1 Egypt is probably still my favorite level in the classics).
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